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Old 11-26-2007   #21
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by Andrew6 View Post
I think he's more of a force than atleast TJ and has more exp. at the position over Okoye.
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I don't know about him out performing anyone and I do agree we need upgrades. I like maddox as a back up and thats what he is. Even as a back up though he's recorded 11 tackles and 2 sacks. Thats not bad for a back up.
I was commenting on your statement above. You mentioned Maddox was more of a force than TJ. Then you say Maddox is a backup which I mentioned. So you want to replace TJ, who's having his best year as a pro, with a back up?

Maybe I'm misreading or something.
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Old 11-26-2007   #22
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
I would like to see them add a speed rusher at the RE, move MW to LE - where he says is more comfortable, and move Weaver down to the DT rotation. On passing downs having MW, Weaver, Okoye, and a speed DE could definitely beef up the pass rush. Against running teams like the Titans, you could go MW, Okoye, TW, and Weaver for more size.
The problem with that idea is twofold, one Weaver is really to small to play DT effectively against the run. Two you are paying him a sackers money to play the run. That is not a good investment, and it is typical Casserly.
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Old 11-27-2007   #23
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by painekiller View Post
That is not a good investment, and it is typical Casserly.
I hate to stop a Casserly bashing (or a slam to his contract guy, Dan Ferens), but the Weaver deal wouldn't have gone down without Kubiak's rubber stamp. If it's all about "accountability", then Gary needs to own up to this one and cut Weaver loose in the offseason.
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Old 11-27-2007   #24
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
If it's all about "accountability", then Gary needs to own up to this one and cut Weaver loose in the offseason.
with mario going to LE and drafting calais campbell!! i tempted to go for it just for outrage factor among the fans!!
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Old 11-27-2007   #25
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
with mario going to LE and drafting calais campbell!! i tempted to go for it just for outrage factor among the fans!!
Great another no motor guy from the state of Florida. Campbell by his own admission can play better, he did not have a good year. I want someone that did, someone that understood that he was in a contract year, and he needed to play his ass off.

Not someone that is apologizing for it, yet is still going to take your money. If he goes back to school and has a big year next year, then I will reconsider this stance. The guy looks good on paper, and that appears to be the trouble, he read the paper.
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Old 11-27-2007   #26
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I hate to stop a Casserly bashing (or a slam to his contract guy, Dan Ferens), but the Weaver deal wouldn't have gone down without Kubiak's rubber stamp. If it's all about "accountability", then Gary needs to own up to this one and cut Weaver loose in the offseason.
I have a feeling conversation went like this;

Kubiak: Charlie, we have identified our needs, since last years team was not good against the rush, and I prefer a 4-3 defense, we need a LDE, Babin and Peak are too small to play the strong side. Also we need a RB we can depend on, this DD kid seems to be hurt alot.

Casserly: (Looking up the meaning of strong side and 4-3, and looking at GBN FA List for ideas)(OK Casserly never looked at a computer) Well RB should be taken care of with Reggie Bush he is the best thing I have seen since Desmond Howard er I mean Barry Sanders, yea that's it. We can get this FA guy from Baltimore they have a good defense, he is young. I think I can trick him into signing here.

Kubiak: Well we need a DE, it's your job to know which one is best for us. I'm to busy looking at tape and installing a playbook, looking for a DL coach, finding a place to live, trying to get David Carr to return a call, it has been a crazy month.

Casserly: I got your back Gary. Trust me, I have a Super Bowl Ring for being such a good scout, and putting together the best scab team. I can handle this one.

Well you get my drift

Kubiak came from an atmosphere where the HC controlled the entire organization. Everyone understood there roles. They had the type players they wanted down and it was always a matter of filling the needs. The scouting department understood the coaches needs, and just presented the players, on some the coaches had preferences, but one man had final say.

When Kubiak got here, Casserly was VP and he had been the man who laid out the team plan. He was the man that had McNair's ear. Everyone in the building other than Kubiak coaching hires, had been hired by Casserly. Was he really in a place to question the long time GM about a DE? Yes he was able to get his backup QB, a person he had tried to get while he was in Denver, but Kubiak had not been involved in selecting defensive players before. He needed someone to be his right hand.

I disagree with the way McNair handled the firings of Capers and Casserly, I would have fired them both together. But he did not. So Lucky we have this problem, which guy gets the glory and which guy gets the blame? I think Casserly's track record stands for itself, and Kubiaks record does also, I am blaming Casserly.
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Old 11-27-2007   #27
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I hate to stop a Casserly bashing (or a slam to his contract guy, Dan Ferens), but the Weaver deal wouldn't have gone down without Kubiak's rubber stamp. If it's all about "accountability", then Gary needs to own up to this one and cut Weaver loose in the offseason.
The shorthand of "all bad picks were because of Casserly, all good picks were because Kubiak was in control" makes it easier to hope for the future if one can ignore the glaring inconsistency.

I keep thinking that Casserly and Capers built a team that could carry Carr to a 7-9 record. Had one change been made - Schaub for Carr - that team probably would have won one or two more games.

With all of the Casserly and Capers ineptness and all of the Smith and Kubiak brilliance, this current team should have a better record than one those jokers ever put together. It isn't all schedule and injury, and there was enough money laying around to overpay Weaver, Moulds, Green, and even Black.

The talent of the previous regime's team was higher than they are now given credit for, IMO. Coaching, politics, and David Carr destroyed it.
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Old 11-28-2007   #28
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

the negativity seen on this board lately from such longtime standouts ready & willing to strike anyone or anything in its path is astonishing & Anthony Weaver I guess is no different. at the time the Texans signed him he was considered one of the top 15 unrestricted free agents period. sure the Texans paid him handsom sums of but he was considered a cornerstone to changing schemes to a 4-3 & to sign key FA's the Texans where kinda forced to pay remember? then he suffered a torn rotator cuff which is a severe injury for a strength position & is just now gaining full mobility & strength. on top of that he is one of the few talented veteran leaders, this team so desperately needs (this is a team loaded w/young talent).

the Texans are ranked 19th in total defense so far this season. last year it was 28th. another healthy jump like that & we're looking at cracking the top 10 in a couple years, of which Weaver is an integral part. look... all year we wait for football season to start (some like me never stop with the offseason/draft) but now when its here all I hear is whining & well I'm not having none of it, I yearn to watch & see the Texans compete week after week both good & bad no matter what but I must say, for a change y'all have grounded me. brought me back to the mainstream, to at least offer a view not jaded in negativity but to find the positives of this team & Anthony Weaver is surely one of them
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Old 11-28-2007   #29
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
the negativity seen on this board lately from such longtime standouts ready & willing to strike anyone or anything in its path is astonishing & Anthony Weaver I guess is no different. at the time the Texans signed him he was considered one of the top 15 unrestricted free agents period. sure the Texans paid him handsom sums of but he was considered a cornerstone to changing schemes to a 4-3 & to sign key FA's the Texans where kinda forced to pay remember?
Most of this could be said about Todd Wade. It's cool to jump on Casserly now for bad signings, even though people were just as pleased with Wade the first year or two as we are "supposed' to be with Weaver now. The Texans are getting about the same impact out of the two siginings, albeit on different sides of the ball.

If all the players were as good as they are purported to be on this board, the Texans would be a lot better than they are now.

Not everyone sees players as faultless or good deals just because they are Texans. Many post these opinions, and they are just as valid as those that think players are great acquisitions mainly because the Texans picked them up. That's what the board is for.
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Old 11-28-2007   #30
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

Well the question now becomes, if the Texans were to cut Weaver after the season ends, who could they replace him with?

I don't believe they have the luxury of drafting another Defensive Lineman in the 1st Round, or even the 3rd Round for that matter, and I doubt there will be any speedy edge rushing DE's available in the 4th Round. So, that leaves Free Agency or a Trade if that need is to be filled before next season. If not, it means that it will have to be addressed 2 drafts from now.
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Old 11-28-2007   #31
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by painekiller View Post
The problem with that idea is twofold, one Weaver is really to small to play DT effectively against the run. Two you are paying him a sackers money to play the run. That is not a good investment, and it is typical Casserly.

If you atcually read my post you would see that I said to move weaver inside on passing downs where he and Okoye would have a quickness advantage over the majority of OGs in the league. I said to move him outside during running downs to keep the run defense stout. I have no problem with you not liking my idea but make sure you and I are talking about the same thing. I would not leave Weaver inside on running downs as (like you said) he is too small. He would give us an inside pass rusher on passing downs though.

Weaver is a decent player that is getting paid too much. He is probably better suited to play end in 3-4. I mentioned moving him around to try to get the most out of him. Sometimes it cost too much to cut a player because of the dead money issue. You have to eat that players $$$ and pay a new guy to play his position. I don't know what the situation with Weaver is cap wise, but he isn't a bad player. Of course it would be great to upgrade 30% of the players on the team, but with the salary cap sometimes this takes awhile.
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Old 11-28-2007   #32
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Most of this could be said about Todd Wade. It's cool to jump on Casserly now for bad signings, even though people were just as pleased with Wade the first year or two as we are "supposed' to be with Weaver now. The Texans are getting about the same impact out of the two siginings, albeit on different sides of the ball.

If all the players were as good as they are purported to be on this board, the Texans would be a lot better than they are now.

Not everyone sees players as faultless or good deals just because they are Texans. Many post these opinions, and they are just as valid as those that think players are great acquisitions mainly because the Texans picked them up. That's what the board is for.
these are not opinions, they're facts. a torn rotator cuff for a strongside end is a big deal, it takes time to heal & regain strength yet the fans are impatient & expect him to excell half a season later? besides, overpaying both Wade & Weaver was the price to attract free agents to a losing Texans, post expansion franchise plain & simple (Casserly or Kubiak).

however I beg to differ with your associtation between Wade & Weaver right there. Wade was unceremoniously released by the Houston Texans last July because Kubiak did not feel he was a good fit for the system they were installing. Weaver was brought in because he was a good fit for the defense Richard Smith (4-3) system wanted to run, different circumstances. at least try to understand players are researched to find the best fit for the system, for a coach to install thats the GM's job (Rick Smith was not hired yet) Weaver still fits that purpose even post Mario pick while Wade is a LG with the Redskins. those are the facts, deny it if y'all want to but don't blame Weaver, he came to Houston to work hard & play football, is strong in the community, a good teammate & does whatever the coaching staff asks him to do.

if you want to focus on something that needs fixed its not a young defensive line thats improving each week its an offense that leads the NFL in giveaways (29) think about the linemen who have to turnaround & go back on the field after the offense turns the ball over? I don't think thats Weaver's problem, yet series after series he goes back in there to stop another unfortunate mis-handling by the offense
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Old 11-28-2007   #33
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
If you atcually read my post you would see that I said to move weaver inside on passing downs where he and Okoye would have a quickness advantage over the majority of OGs in the league. I said to move him outside during running downs to keep the run defense stout. I have no problem with you not liking my idea but make sure you and I are talking about the same thing. I would not leave Weaver inside on running downs as (like you said) he is too small. He would give us an inside pass rusher on passing downs though.

Weaver is a decent player that is getting paid too much. He is probably better suited to play end in 3-4. I mentioned moving him around to try to get the most out of him. Sometimes it cost too much to cut a player because of the dead money issue. You have to eat that players $$$ and pay a new guy to play his position. I don't know what the situation with Weaver is cap wise, but he isn't a bad player. Of course it would be great to upgrade 30% of the players on the team, but with the salary cap sometimes this takes awhile.
Weaver is redundant and therefor expendable with Mario also on our team.
Its well known we never intended to draft Mario and that's why we took
Weaver - we needed a strong-side DE in Kubiaks 4-3. And Weaver would
still be very valuable and necessary had we not drafted Mario. But Mario
should clearly be playing the position on the DLine AW is now manning.
But Travis Johnson is playing well and along with AO they are both
3-technique type tackles, as is Weaver if he's moved inside. Weaver is simply too small to be a NT (or 0 or 1-technique type if you choose that terminology) type in the DLine.
So now that means if Weaver is moved inside we've got no less than 3 players who are 3-technique types and there is only one 3-technique position in the 4-3 DLine. Somebody has to go, and its going to be Weaver or TJ because AO isn't going anyway.
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Old 11-28-2007   #34
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Weaver is redundant and therefor expendable with Mario also on our team.
Its well known we never intended to draft Mario and that's why we took
Weaver - we needed a strong-side DE in Kubiaks 4-3. And Weaver would
still be very valuable and necessary had we not drafted Mario. But Mario
should clearly be playing the position on the DLine AW is now manning.
But Travis Johnson is playing well and along with AO they are both
3-technique type tackles, as is Weaver if he's moved inside. Weaver is simply too small to be a NT (or 0 or 1-technique type if you choose that terminology) type in the DLine.
So now that means if Weaver is moved inside we've got no less than 3 players who are 3-technique types and there is only one 3-technique position in the 4-3 DLine. Somebody has to go, and its going to be Weaver or TJ because AO isn't going anyway.
guess Shantee Orr is going away http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?story_id=3964
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Old 11-28-2007   #35
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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these are not opinions, they're facts. a torn rotator cuff for a strongside end is a big deal, ...
deny it if y'all want to but don't blame Weaver
I didn't say a torn rotator cuff or its effects were an opinion, but that mis-statement did give you a good jumping off point for your desertation of other facts as you see them.

My opinion: Weaver isn't worth the money he is being paid.

If you don't agree with that, that is your opinion and that's fine. Facts can lead to legitimately different opinions and still be facts. The world isn't black and white; it is gray. In other words, even though we have different opinions it doesn't mean I don't know what a fact is and have to be treated like I'm stupid and misinformed.

I don't blame Weaver; that may be an assumption of "fact" on your part. I think he should go to the team offering the best money/opportunity and do his best there. However, if a team continually makes similar decisions that don't turn out well IMO, I will comment on them as my opinion. Furthermore, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm in some sort of denial.

==========================

With all that being said, I still don't see why the Texans aren't better with so many players who are above criticism to one segment or another of this board.
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Old 11-28-2007   #36
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by BattleRedToro View Post
Well the question now becomes, if the Texans were to cut Weaver after the season ends, who could they replace him with?
The obvious answer is Mario Williams. He's a true 4-3 LDE. The you find a player (or players) to play RDE. I think Earl Cochran could be part of that solution. And you don't have to spend a 1st round pick in the draft on a pass rushing tweener. Look at the sack leaders and you will find plenty who were mid round selections.

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...but don't blame Weaver, he came to Houston to work hard & play football, is strong in the community, a good teammate & does whatever the coaching staff asks him to do.
I wouldn't argue against any of that. But as of right now, he's overpaid. And the only position he can play should be manned by Mario Williams, who is the Texans best LDE.
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Old 11-28-2007   #37
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

I agree to all that Weaver isn't worth the money I don't think that is a question, BUT he is on the team with a contract. You can't just go cutting everyone that you feel is overpaid. You have to pay the rest of his bonus plus a new guy to play the position. There comes a point where you can handle releasing players based on the contract and the cap situation, and I honestly don't know where Weaver is in that regard. I have a feeling since he is less than half way through he would cost us quite a bit in dead money. It seems that the job of the coaching staff should be to utilize players to the best of their ablilities -ie put them in a position to be productive. This was why I suggested moving him around abit on the line depending on situation - to try to get more productivity out of him.

It would be great if you could cut guys that didn't produce based on their contract numbers, but that isn't the case in the NFL. You have to pay a price in the accelerated bonus. I don't think Weaver is such a bad player that he needs to be cut if he costs us a bunch in dead money. If you can cut him and not get killed with the cap and find a good replacement then by all means chop away. I am not sure it will be that easy this off season.
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Old 11-28-2007   #38
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
The obvious answer is Mario Williams. He's a true 4-3 LDE. The you find a player (or players) to play RDE. I think Earl Cochran could be part of that solution. And you don't have to spend a 1st round pick in the draft on a pass rushing tweener. Look at the sack leaders and you will find plenty who were mid round selections.
Guys like Darryl Tapp and Elvis Dumervil are there every year after the first round. We just need to do our homework and find a player suitable for the weakside edge rusher. You can reach for guys in the first round that were mentioned earlier in this thread like Calais Campbell but he is kind of a poor man's Sean Jones....not sure he would be any better than someone like Tapp long term.

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I wouldn't argue against any of that. But as of right now, he's overpaid. And the only position he can play should be manned by Mario Williams, who is the Texans best LDE.
I'd like to see us cut Weaver and put in Mario at the strong side end full time also.
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Old 11-28-2007   #39
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Weaver is redundant and therefor expendable with Mario also on our team.
Its well known we never intended to draft Mario and that's why we took
Weaver - we needed a strong-side DE in Kubiaks 4-3. And Weaver would
still be very valuable and necessary had we not drafted Mario. But Mario
should clearly be playing the position on the DLine AW is now manning.
But Travis Johnson is playing well and along with AO they are both
3-technique type tackles, as is Weaver if he's moved inside. Weaver is simply too small to be a NT (or 0 or 1-technique type if you choose that terminology) type in the DLine.
So now that means if Weaver is moved inside we've got no less than 3 players who are 3-technique types and there is only one 3-technique position in the 4-3 DLine. Somebody has to go, and its going to be Weaver or TJ because AO isn't going anyway.
Look, if it costs us a ton of dead money to cut Weaver than I am against it. Play him at strong side end against running teams and move him to TJs position in passing downs and he will produce. Sign or draft a player like Trent Coles or Burgess to come in a weak side end during passing downs.

I think if anyone needs to be released it is Green. If his knee is a chronic issues then he doesn't need to be here. Cutting two guys in the first couple years into their deals could be problematic to the cap. Of the the two i would release Green and keep Weaver.
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Old 11-28-2007   #40
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Default Re: Anthony Weaver

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
I agree to all that Weaver isn't worth the money I don't think that is a question, BUT he is on the team with a contract. You can't just go cutting everyone that you feel is overpaid. You have to pay the rest of his bonus plus a new guy to play the position. There comes a point where you can handle releasing players based on the contract and the cap situation, and I honestly don't know where Weaver is in that regard.
I don't either. I had heard he had received a $12 million bonus upon signing for 5 years with the Texans. But I looked on houstonprofootball.com's salary cap page, and Weaver's prorated bonus calls for a $1.2 million hit on the cap. I'm not sure where the $1.2 million per year disparity comes from, unless half of the $12 million came in a roster bonus.

If Weaver does still carries $7.2 million hit in bonus allocation, he probably is too expensive to cut. I still think it would be in the best interest of the team to move Williams to LDE and find a solution at RDE. Weaver could backup. Yeah, that would suck to pay that much to a reserve. But, the Texans can't afford to play guys based on how much cap hit they bring.
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