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Old 11-19-2007   #1
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Default Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

I cannot for the life of me understand why many coaches will not bench a player that is obvious not playing well and is not the answer at that position and not give someone behind them a chance to prove themselves. Look at Faggins. It took an injury for someone else to to get a chance. And now, I think many people want to see more of echemandu . But Kubiak won't play him. He looked pretty good in the Chargers game and we haven't really seen him since. Everyone knows that Dayne is not the answer. Even though he has been playing well lately. He is just a stop/gap back. And Maybe Itchi is not the answer but let see what he can do!!!!

And NFL coaches are not the only ones. Van Gundy is the most stubborn coach I have ever seen. He never played rookies and his relationship with Bonzi Wells got in the way of Bonzi's playing time. That is why I loved Rudy T. When he was with the Rockets. He gave everyone a try and if you produced you got playing time. Rookies, European players, it didn't matter. He wanted to see what every player had.
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Old 11-19-2007   #2
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

Bennet has been nicked up during the season, and Faggins really has not been that bad for most of the season. I think yesterday was a mixture of things, such as good playcalling, pressure from Mario and good secondary play (and some timely drops). But one game isnt a season, Bennet is still a rooky and our safties have not been great. I think another thing that helps is more conservative play calling in the secondary to account for the absence of Drob. With Dunta, we played a lot of man coverage, which often exposed Faggins. Now that we dont trust either corner in a lot of man, we are giving them more help with safties and linebackers, and so far its worked.
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Old 11-19-2007   #3
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

With Kubiak, you have a short leash if you don't hold on to the ball. It is one of the biggest mistakes you could make with this head coach, and a player has to earn his confidence to get put back into the game.
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Old 11-19-2007   #4
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

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Originally Posted by raytex View Post
And now, I think many people want to see more of echemandu . But Kubiak won't play him. He looked pretty good in the Chargers game and we haven't really seen him since. Everyone knows that Dayne is not the answer. Even though he has been playing well lately. He is just a stop/gap back. And Maybe Itchi is not the answer but let see what he can do!!!!
If he wants more playing time he should try to not fumble the first hand-off he takes. At this point I'm happy with Dayne.
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Old 11-19-2007   #5
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

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Originally Posted by Bandwagon View Post
If he wants more playing time he should try to not fumble the first hand-off he takes. At this point I'm happy with Dayne.
I'd rather look at the big picture. If Itchi keeps fumbling than take him out. But he hasn't really had a chance.
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Old 11-19-2007   #6
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

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Originally Posted by Bandwagon View Post
If he wants more playing time he should try to not fumble the first hand-off he takes. At this point I'm happy with Dayne.
Oh Lord I hate to admit this, because I'm so anti-Dayne, but I agree. Though he sucks as a runner at least he doesn't fumble.
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Old 11-19-2007   #7
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

from things Kubiak has said in the past, players have to prove themselves capable of playing in practice before he lets them on the field. And running backs better be able to block in pass protection as well. Its like when the coaches do put someone in and all the fans are like "see, we should have put them in before", but chances are the player has needed the practice in the intervening weeks to be ready to hit the field. This team wants to win, not just throw people into the game to see what you have. Thats what you do when a season is lost, not when you are fighting for your life.
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Old 11-19-2007   #8
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

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Originally Posted by raytex View Post
I'd rather look at the big picture. If Itchi keeps fumbling than take him out. But he hasn't really had a chance.
we're 5-5.. no need to go experimenting while we're still in the WC race

happy with safe hands, slow legs dayne also
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Old 11-19-2007   #9
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

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Originally Posted by raytex View Post
I'd rather look at the big picture. If Itchi keeps fumbling than take him out. But he hasn't really had a chance.
At this point, I still think that the Texans are trying to be a playoff contender. What you're proposing might be a good idea for teams who are already out of the race and are just trying to see what they have going into the next year, but the Texans are trying to win right now.

And a rookie running back who fumbles his first carry of the day will NOT help you win a football game. Yes, Dayne is NOT the answer of the future, but he also does not fumble and was a huge factor in the win on Sunday over the Saints.
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Old 11-19-2007   #10
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

Or none of the above..

Maybe they just know more about their players and the nfl in general than the average message board poster.

JMHO

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Old 11-19-2007   #11
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

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Originally Posted by raytex View Post
I'd rather look at the big picture. If Itchi keeps fumbling than take him out. But he hasn't really had a chance.
There are 3 things a RB is truely responsible for. And I think they go in this order.

Securing the ball
Picking up the blitz/providing pass protection
YPC/Gaining Yardage (sexy stat)

I'm as guilty as anyone of looking at Dayne and calling him a bum but the fact is he does #1 and #2 well. He's below average at #3 but personally, thinking this is not "our year" I'll take #2 over any right now. I seriously doubt that our starting running back next year is even on the roster. If Ichi develops over the next few years.. GREAT.. pull a NYJ and trade your primary back's backup but i under no circumstances, want to put our QB at jeopardy especially given the already depleated OL.

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Old 11-20-2007   #12
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

I don't see how you could fast-track your way into the head coach's dog house any quicker than Echemandu did. Putting the ball on the ground on your first carry???

He'll be lucky to get on the field the rest of the season, the knucklehead.

To echo someone else, Dayne protects the football and he protects the QB. All things considered, if he can get yardage running the football, that's gravy.
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Old 11-20-2007   #13
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

This reminds me of some quote from some coach I don't remember,

He said (talking to his player): Son, what is it with you, ignorance or apathy?

Player: Coach, I don't know and I don't care.

But, seriously. This thread would be relevant if Dayne was playing bad at the time, which we all know he is capable of. But the fact of the matter is, Dayne is playing pretty well right now and Echemandu fumbled on his first carry of the game. If it broke (at the moment), then don't fix it.
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Old 11-20-2007   #14
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

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Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
we're 5-5.. no need to go experimenting while we're still in the WC race

happy with safe hands, slow legs dayne also
Now thats funny.
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Old 11-20-2007   #15
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

I like Dayne. There, I said it. He might not be the fastest back in the league, but he still managed to grind out more yards that Reggie Bush, one of the fastest and most elusive backs in the game.

Dayne gets beter during the game, but I also think that the last two games, they've let him run harder and a bit more to the outside. Apart from that 4th down mishap, I really like what I see from him.

Also, his personality reminds me about Andre, quiet, head down doing his job.
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Old 11-20-2007   #16
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

I must admit prior to the fumble I was up in section 514 screaming to see Itchy. However after the fumble I had lost my edge! I really thought the Saints would start trying to throw deep on our wounded secondary at some point so I did not want to take the chance of giving them any extra possessions. We have had to many games in our history were we let the lead slip away with stupis mistakes like turn overs, I cant really blame Kubiak for not wanting to tisk it. Besides, who would have thought Payton would try and force the run and settle for the underneath stuff!
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Old 11-20-2007   #17
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

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Originally Posted by cuppacoffee View Post
Or none of the above..

Maybe they just know more about their players and the nfl in general than the average message board poster.

JMHO


Yeah... but how do they compare to slightly above average message board posters... like us?
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Old 11-20-2007   #18
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

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Dayne gets beter during the game, but I also think that the last two games, they've let him run harder and a bit more to the outside.
That was something I noticed, also. It seemed like Dayne's runs outside were very effective. He seemed to do a better job of breaking tackles when he was in a bit more open field (well, I guess that's to be expected, but still). Assuming Dayne is our starter the next few games, I hope they give him some more of these outside runs, rather than thinking "big back == run inside".

Even on that 4th and 1 play, I had the feeling that if he had really tried to go around the edge once he saw the line was stuffed, rather than dancing and trying to pick a hole in the line, he would have made it. It didn't look like there was much outside containment from New Orleans, and even if someone had moved up, I think he could have broken the tackle or dragged one tackler for the distance.
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Old 11-20-2007   #19
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Yeah... but how do they compare to slightly above average message board posters... like us?

They pale in comparison... ...

Actually there are some very knowledgeable posters on here.


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Old 11-20-2007   #20
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Default Re: Are Coaches just arrogant, stubborn or just stupid?

I'm not against Ron Dayne. I'm not against anyone that the coaches think can get the job done.

However, whenever I hear anything about Ron Dayne, it seems like it's "Why didn't he see that gaping cutback lane?" or "If he'd just gone to his left..." I don't think it's so much that he's slow (which he is, obviously) as it is that he doesn't have the vision.

Still, he doesn't fumble, and he does a decent enough job for a #2.
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