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Old 11-06-2007   #41
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

If you remove the sacks from the equation;
2006 Freeney had 26 solo tackles with 3 assists and 4 passes defended.
2006 Williams had 35 solo tackles with 12 assists and 3 passes defended.

2007 (through 8 weeks) Freeney has 17 solo tackles with 3 assists and 0 passes defended (note: 3.5 sacks)
2006 Williams had 18 solo tackles with 5 assists and 1 pass defended (note: 4 sacks)




Just sayin'.........
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Old 11-06-2007   #42
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
If you remove the sacks from the equation;
2006 Freeney had 26 solo tackles with 3 assists and 4 passes defended.
2006 Williams had 35 solo tackles with 12 assists and 3 passes defended.

2007 (through 8 weeks) Freeney has 17 solo tackles with 3 assists and 0 passes defended (note: 3.5 sacks)
2006 Williams had 18 solo tackles with 5 assists and 1 pass defended (note: 4 sacks)




Just sayin'.........
How many teams would take Mario over Freeney? Probably zero since teams scheme around Freeney. Just sayin'
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Old 11-06-2007   #43
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
How many teams would take Mario over Freeney? Probably zero since teams scheme around Freeney. Just sayin'
Depends if they want to win now or down the road. Mario is 4-5 years younger than Freeney right?

Seems like Freeney's numbers are down since Carr left.
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Old 11-06-2007   #44
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

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Originally Posted by atxcoolguy View Post
Depends if they want to win now or down the road. Mario is 4-5 years younger than Freeney right?

Seems like Freeney's numbers are down since Carr left.
Most teams want to win now and don't really subscribe to the he sucks now, but he sure looks good in shorts so I'll keep paying him top dollar...'cept for a few teams of course (won't mention any names). Freeney's numbers are down because teams scheme around him more and more. That's what a difference maker does...if teams pay too much attention to him it allows others to make plays.
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Old 11-06-2007   #45
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
How many teams would take Mario over Freeney? Probably zero since teams scheme around Freeney. Just sayin'
Just making a point about the 'dreaded stats' routine. If someone had never seen the two play and read those stats, they would assume that Mario is just as good as, if not better. Those that watch and know a little something about football know differently..

One tangible is that one of those guys has the ability to take over a game and enforce his will on it, and the other can't... yet.
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Old 11-06-2007   #46
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

This is obviously a very interesting topic and will continue to be for all Texans fans for the foreseeable future. We invested the first overall pick in the draft in a defensive lineman when two of the most prolific offensive players in college history were still on the board. None of the top 3 in that draft, IMO, have made the impact people expected them to make yet. Mario isn't hitting double digit sacks. Young has accounted for only 5 TD's, but 9 turnovers in seven starts so far this year, and if it weren't for the Titans stout D you'd hear much more clamoring about that. Bush is playing like a mediocre starting back, averaging less than 4 YPC, and only 5.5 yards per reception. These guys were hyped up to be immediate superstars, men among boys, and it's just not happening yet.

I like TC's point about playing for a green DC with a lackluster secondary behind him. I see Mario around the QB all the time, but he's always a few ticks too late. If our secondary forces the QB to hold onto the ball a little longer, many of those near misses are going to turn into sacks. Mario didn't do anything different, he didn't get there any faster, but his efforts would show up in the stat column more often.

The big crux of the discontent with Mario in Houston, IMO, has to do with this:
1. We've seen Bush juke out a whole team for what should've been a 10 yard loss and then run for 60 yards. Normal players do not make that kind of play.
2. We've seen Young break out of potential sacks and tear off a 49 yard run in the waning seconds of a game against the team that passed on him for the winning score. Normal players do not make that kind of play.
3. Mario has had good games, ie. against the Chiefs this year, the Giants and the Dolphins last year. We've seen him push guys backwards alot. We haven't seen him spin out of the arms of an OT and throw a blocking running back aside like a rag doll on his way to obliterating the QB in 1 second flat. We haven't seen him make a big, glitzy pass rush where he dominated the opposition and laid out the QB at that critical moment in the game. He hasn't done anything that makes you say, man that was a special play, a normal guy couldn't have done that.


Obviously defense isn't as highlight reel friendly as offense, but the average fan doesn't have the time or resources to break down game film. They want to see the big sparkly highlights. To me, I've appreciated Kubiak's candor in his interviews and if he says Mario's playing well then I trust him. I've seen Mario make some nice plays, if he's doing some great things that just aren't showing up on TV, and Kubiak thinks it's making a big difference in helping us win football games then I'm content with that.
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Old 11-06-2007   #47
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Just making a point about the 'dreaded stats' routine. If someone had never seen the two play and read those stats, they would assume that Mario is just as good as, if not better. Those that watch and know a little something about football know differently..

One tangible is that one of those guys has the ability to take over a game and enforce his will on it, and the other can't... yet.
yeah, I agree...just playing off those stats with my post. Frankly I think that Mario has too much physical ability to give up on. Hopefully he is just a slow learner.
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Old 11-06-2007   #48
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
yeah, I agree...just playing off those stats with my post. Frankly I think that Mario has too much physical ability to give up on. Hopefully he is just a slow learner.
Maybe next year if the NFL allows a defensive player to have a helmet similar to the one that QBs wear we can give that helmet to Mario & have someone constantly slinging "Yo Mama" jokes at him throughout the game. Get him good & mad.
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Old 11-06-2007   #49
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
yeah, I agree...just playing off those stats with my post. Frankly I think that Mario has too much physical ability to give up on. Hopefully he is just a slow learner.
That and coaches can actually coach him, but they maybe asking to much.
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Old 11-06-2007   #50
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

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Originally Posted by texasguy346 View Post
Maybe next year if the NFL allows a defensive player to have a helmet similar to the one that QBs wear we can give that helmet to Mario & have someone constantly slinging "Yo Mama" jokes at him throughout the game. Get him good & mad.
I'm figuring that when they insult him they can also scream that it's 3rd and inches...THEY MAY RUN THE BALL! DON'T SPRINT AROUND THE TACKLE THIS TIME!
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Old 11-06-2007   #51
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I'm figuring that when they insult him they can also scream that it's 3rd and inches...THEY MAY RUN THE BALL! DON'T SPRINT AROUND THE TACKLE THIS TIME!
With TJ it's easy. You just tell him that the QB has a Snickers bar in his back pocket. That gets him after the QB every time. Mario doesn't fall for the Snickers bit.
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Old 11-06-2007   #52
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
How many teams would take Mario over Freeney? Probably zero since teams scheme around Freeney. Just sayin'
2

I really wonder ? If they were the same age no doubt Freeney, but Freeney was 27 in Feb while Mario turned just 22 the month before. I dunno, maybe there'rd be a couple takers for Mario ?
If Mario works as hard as he reportedly does and with his raw athletic ability,
logically it's difficult to imagine him not being a high impact player at some point in his career ?
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Old 11-06-2007   #53
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

Not sure if age factors into D-Linemen much. Many of the most dominate D-Linemen out there are ancient.

As long as you can still get pressure (DE)
Or be fat and clog the running lanes (DT)

You will have a career.

Not so much for an old RB or DB
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Old 11-06-2007   #54
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

Not bust, but was he worth the #1 pick and his salary?

Follow-up: is any unproven player worth that kind of money?
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Old 11-06-2007   #55
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

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And there has been my rub the whole time with him. I was never a VY or Bush guy..even though I respect both greatly and see the benefits...I was more trade down and get Mario at maybe 3. But no trades and he would have been gone from what we here. It isn't his fault he is picked there but over history that is the stigma with being the pick. The way the pick was explained to us was we had to keep up with the Colts and be a pressure D and he was the speed rusher we needed. So now we are being patient again and waiting for him to develop?That is what kills me. Its Year 6 and we are still talking patience with picks, etc.
I certainly understand the frustration of being a Texans fan into what appears to be the sixth straight season of losing records.

But, we have to keep in mind that it's only 1.5 seasons of Kubiak and Mario. That just isn't enough time to really make a final judgement, IMO. We see tendencies to shape our perceptions, and that's fair. But what other choice do we really have than to be patient and hope that it comes together by the 2008 season?
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Old 11-06-2007   #56
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

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Originally Posted by texasguy346 View Post
With TJ it's easy. You just tell him that the QB has a Snickers bar in his back pocket. That gets him after the QB every time. Mario doesn't fall for the Snickers bit.
Ah, but tell him the QB has a new remote control car and Mario will be so there!
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Old 11-06-2007   #57
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

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Not bust, but was he worth the #1 pick and his salary?

Follow-up: is any unproven player worth that kind of money?
That's an absolute hell no. The rookie salaries and signing bonuses are out of control in the NFL. How much money did Jamarcus Russell make this year for not doing anything of note? How much of that was guaranteed?
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Old 11-06-2007   #58
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

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That's an absolute hell no. The rookie salaries and signing bonuses are out of control in the NFL. How much money did Jamarcus Russell make this year for not doing anything of note? How much of that was guaranteed?
He is learning how to play NFL QB all year....Carson Palmer did the same thing his rookie year and I bet the Bengals have no regrets over not playing him as a rookie....that said, the rookie wage scale is broke and needs fixing.
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Old 11-06-2007   #59
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Follow-up: is any unproven player worth that kind of money?
Must be, because every year the #1 pick gets that kind of money again, from
usuaually a different team, again. Plus the nice little incremental, cost-of-living increase, again. Happens every year.
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Old 11-06-2007   #60
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Default Re: Mario Williams is NOT a bust after all.

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Must be, because every year the #1 pick gets that kind of money again, from
usuaually a different team, again. Plus the nice little incremental, cost-of-living increase, again. Happens every year.
And pro sports teams don't ever throw away money on players that aren't worth it.
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