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Old 11-06-2007   #21
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Amobi isn't dominating anything... you guys need to stop with the over-exagerating. He looks good, but he's not dominating by any stretch of the imagination.

he's got 1 more sack than Mario & he just got that sunday.
Except you cant compare the two because one plays DE and one plays DT.

Okoye is 3rd among DTs with 5 sacks. Only Tommie Harris (7) and Darnell Docket (8) have more sacks than he does.

Williams, on the other hand, is 14th among active DEs with 4 sacks.
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Old 11-06-2007   #22
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Amobi isn't dominating anything... you guys need to stop with the over-exagerating. He looks good, but he's not dominating by any stretch of the imagination.

he's got 1 more sack than Mario & he just got that sunday.
Amobi is inconsistent, that much is obvious. Mario is more consistent than him.

Gtexan, you are wrong on the Texans drafted Mario to get a immediate impact. Everyone in the draft knew that Mario was a project, just like Bush and Young. I am sure the Texans knew that also. They did get him to get after Peyton, but for the next 10 years. Mario was drafted to be a great DE over a long period of time. So he hasn't failed at anything yet, and he has been improving and he seems to have the motivation.
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Old 11-06-2007   #23
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Except you cant compare the two because one plays DE and one plays DT.

Okoye is 3rd among DTs with 5 sacks. Only Tommie Harris (7) and Darnell Docket (8) have more sacks than he does.

Williams, on the other hand, is 14th among active DEs with 4 sacks.
I guess Okoye is better than Albert Haynesworth then huh?

& 14th among 60+ starting DE's isn't all that bad-- if you're just going on stats.
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Old 11-06-2007   #24
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Except you cant compare the two because one plays DE and one plays DT.

Okoye is 3rd among DTs with 5 sacks. Only Tommie Harris (7) and Darnell Docket (8) have more sacks than he does.

Williams, on the other hand, is 14th among active DEs with 4 sacks.
Don't look at the stats though, he's inconsistent.
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Old 11-06-2007   #25
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I don't agree with this at all.

I would be fine waiting on Mario Williams to develop if thats what I thought was going to happen from day 1.

But the problem I'm having is that the Texans specifically said the 2 reasons we were bringing in Mario were:
1) To bring the heat against guys like Peyton Manning
2) Because he was the most NFL ready guy

I realize that many DL take years to develop, but why are there other DEs from the same draft class who were taken later in round 1, and even in other rounds, who are/have already out produced Mario?

Why is it that Amobi Okoye, who was actually EXPECTED to be a project, has dominated against the pass AND the run as a rookie?

Mario was supposed to be a pass rusher. Mario was supposed to be NFL ready. Mario was supposed to be one of the top DE prospects in years.

Im fully ready to give him more time, but because of the expectations I had for him, I feel its totally fair to criticize his play so far. I already see him making progress, but its his pass rushing that still bothers me. And the reason I think thats fair is because he was sold to us as Texans fans as the next great pass rusher. He even said his goal was to break the single season sack record.

If the Texans FO thinks hes that good, and if he thinks hes that good, then why can't I EXPECT him to be that good?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't recall that being said about Mario at any time. Matt Leinart i believe was the guy they were saying was the most NFL ready..

& as far as Okoye, he isn't dominating anything... you guys need to stop with the over-exagerating. He looks good, but he's not dominating by any stretch of the imagination. The raiders ran all up the middle, as did the Dolphins & anybody else who had good rushing days against us. He's a rookie, i get that but he's still got a long way to go as does mario before we can say he's dominating anything.

he's only got 1 more sack than Mario & he just got that sunday. I would say that those 2 are doing their part on the D-line, the other 2 "veteran" guys on the line need to step their game up as far as production goes.
How many sacks does Okoye have in his first 9 games compared to Mario's first 9 games his rookie year?
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Old 11-06-2007   #26
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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Originally Posted by Leahmic223 View Post
Amobi is inconsistent, that much is obvious. Mario is more consistent than him.

Gtexan, you are wrong on the Texans drafted Mario to get a immediate impact. Everyone in the draft knew that Mario was a project, just like Bush and Young. I am sure the Texans knew that also. They did get him to get after Peyton, but for the next 10 years. Mario was drafted to be a great DE over a long period of time. So he hasn't failed at anything yet, and he has been improving and he seems to have the motivation.
Leahmic, I think you are wrong if you think any team drafts a first pick with maybe the exception of QB and thinks the player is a "project". I am not razzing on Mario and hope the guy works out for us. As of today, he has not been worth the pick.
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Old 11-06-2007   #27
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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Leahmic, I think you are wrong if you think any team drafts a first pick with maybe the exception of QB and thinks the player is a "project". I am not razzing on Mario and hope the guy works out for us. As of today, he has not been worth the pick.
No, players in the top 10 or in the first round are drafted on potential.
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Old 11-06-2007   #28
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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Originally Posted by Leahmic223 View Post
No, players in the top 10 or in the first round are drafted on potential.
IMO all players are drafted on what teams "hope" they will become in NFL. Mario was presented to the Houston fans as a player who could get after the QB his rookie year. He was not presented as a future H.O.F. as Bush was. Mario has been neither a bust nor pro bowler. Nor has he done as expected to this point.
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Old 11-06-2007   #29
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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IMO all players are drafted on what teams "hope" they will become in NFL. Mario was presented to the Houston fans as a player who could get after the QB his rookie year. He was not presented as a future H.O.F. as Bush was. Mario has been neither a bust nor pro bowler. Nor has he done as expected to this point.
I think any guy in the top 5 people have REALLY HIGH hopes for that player meaning HOF, its just never mentioned. Mario was presented as a player with a incredibly high ceiling. Parcells said when they scouted him they saw a guy WHO COULD become a GREAT DE in time. McNair said we got Mario to get after Peyton, I didn't hear 'We Got Mario to get after Peyton ASAP, as in next year.' from what I took we got MArio as a project. Just like how all the scouts saw him.

Even if there is some quote I missed, I think the coaches didn't expect him to come in and dominate, because it was pretty well known on draft day that he was a project. When guys are drafted in the top 5 they are usually drafted on Potential, potential to be something special and look at his scouting reports, I remember one even saying you wouldn't see a DE coming out like him for the next 10 years. So he was regarded by the general scouts as a 'Special' player.
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Old 11-06-2007   #30
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

The way I remember the justification of the Mario pick was:

1. To get to the QB...Peyton.- Expectation= A pass rushing DE
2. That he will make the most impact right away.
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Old 11-06-2007   #31
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

I know this is kind of off topic, but does anybody else find it odd that TJ is the only one that bats balls down at the LOS? Mario is probably 5 yards behind the QB at that time, but what about the rest of them?


Sorry about the random thought.
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Old 11-06-2007   #32
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

Dont you see the trap you've put yourself into though?

When is it ok to be disapointed with a 1st overall pick? 1 year of disapointment? 2 years of disapointment? Lets hope no one says 5 years...oh wait.

But the point Im trying to make is that with the exception of QBs, the 1st overall player taken in the draft really should be a guy who can make an immediate impact.

A team picks 1st because they are the WORST team in the NFL. The WORST team in the NFL doesnt have time to wait 1 or 2 or 5 years for their players to develop.

If the Texans had told me that Mario was going to be a 3 year project, and that we wouldn't see pro bowl numbers from him for 3 years, I would have been against hte pick.

When you are last in the NFL, you need immediate impact guys. Franchises can't really afford to just sit around and hope projects turn out. Thats what teams with depth and good coaching can do.

I don't buy the fact that Mario has always been a project. Everyone on this board was projecting 8-12 sacks from him as a rookie. Then he went a few games without sacks, and got the foot thing, and everyone started making excuses. He came in on fire this year with 2 sacks early and everyone was back on the bandwagon. Now he's slowed down and everyone starts with the excuses again.

Here is how I see it:
Mario is a good, consistent DE
Mario is NOT a game changing DE at this point

And that is something Im disapointed with, and I think its fair to criticize.

This team has spent 4 consecutive years drafting DL in the 1st round. And we STILL dont have a consistent pass rush or run stopper. Thats failure any way you spin it


From what I've read and seen of Mario, I think he is well on his way to developing into a consistent and solid player. But I still think he should have shown more to merit his position in the draft
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Old 11-06-2007   #33
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Dont you see the trap you've put yourself into though?

When is it ok to be disapointed with a 1st overall pick? 1 year of disapointment? 2 years of disapointment? Lets hope no one says 5 years...oh wait.

But the point Im trying to make is that with the exception of QBs, the 1st overall player taken in the draft really should be a guy who can make an immediate impact.

A team picks 1st because they are the WORST team in the NFL. The WORST team in the NFL doesnt have time to wait 1 or 2 or 5 years for their players to develop.

If the Texans had told me that Mario was going to be a 3 year project, and that we wouldn't see pro bowl numbers from him for 3 years, I would have been against hte pick.
Which is why they would tell you that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
When you are last in the NFL, you need immediate impact guys. Franchises can't really afford to just sit around and hope projects turn out. Thats what teams with depth and good coaching can do.

I don't buy the fact that Mario has always been a project. Everyone on this board was projecting 8-12 sacks from him as a rookie. Then he went a few games without sacks, and got the foot thing, and everyone started making excuses. He came in on fire this year with 2 sacks early and everyone was back on the bandwagon. Now he's slowed down and everyone starts with the excuses again.
How is the foot a excuse, that cowgirl player missed half the season with that foot and he's not the only guy to miss games with the foot. No one is making excuses, I don't know who was projecting him to have a big rookie year i've always siad it was going to take time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Here is how I see it:
Mario is a good, consistent DE
Mario is NOT a game changing DE at this point

And that is something Im disapointed with, and I think its fair to criticize.

This team has spent 4 consecutive years drafting DL in the 1st round. And we STILL dont have a consistent pass rush or run stopper. Thats failure any way you spin it


From what I've read and seen of Mario, I think he is well on his way to developing into a consistent and solid player. But I still think he should have shown more to merit his position in the draft
Actually TJ is pretty dang consistent if you ask me. Mario is consistent too, you just said that...

He isn't a game changing DE yet...but it is going to take time. The worst team in the NFL drafts the player with TONS of potential. They don't draft a guy that is projected to be a good player at his position, who will be a solid guy at his position. No they draft a player that is going to be something special at his position and it is usually going to take time.
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Old 11-06-2007   #34
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

Also Gtexan, you are fairly criticizing Mario.

I'm just saying that I don't think the Texans coaching staff expected the guy to make a immeidiate impact right away, and if they did then they made a mistake. Because it was well known that guys like him, Bush and Young were projects.
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Old 11-06-2007   #35
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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Originally Posted by Leahmic223 View Post
I think any guy in the top 5 people have REALLY HIGH hopes for that player meaning HOF, its just never mentioned. Mario was presented as a player with a incredibly high ceiling. Parcells said when they scouted him they saw a guy WHO COULD become a GREAT DE in time. McNair said we got Mario to get after Peyton, I didn't hear 'We Got Mario to get after Peyton ASAP, as in next year.' from what I took we got MArio as a project. Just like how all the scouts saw him.

Even if there is some quote I missed, I think the coaches didn't expect him to come in and dominate, because it was pretty well known on draft day that he was a project. When guys are drafted in the top 5 they are usually drafted on Potential, potential to be something special and look at his scouting reports, I remember one even saying you wouldn't see a DE coming out like him for the next 10 years. So he was regarded by the general scouts as a 'Special' player.
A quick google search.. I doubt a player compared to Julius & LT is a project.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1561556.shtml
Listen, I am not saying he is a bust but is not doing what he should by now.
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Old 11-06-2007   #36
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Dont you see the trap you've put yourself into though?

When is it ok to be disapointed with a 1st overall pick? 1 year of disapointment? 2 years of disapointment? Lets hope no one says 5 years...oh wait.
But the point Im trying to make is that with the exception of QBs, the 1st overall player taken in the draft really should be a guy who can make an immediate impact.

A team picks 1st because they are the WORST team in the NFL. The WORST team in the NFL doesnt have time to wait 1 or 2 or 5 years for their players to develop.

If the Texans had told me that Mario was going to be a 3 year project, and that we wouldn't see pro bowl numbers from him for 3 years, I would have been against hte pick.

When you are last in the NFL, you need immediate impact guys. Franchises can't really afford to just sit around and hope projects turn out. Thats what teams with depth and good coaching can do.

I don't buy the fact that Mario has always been a project. Everyone on this board was projecting 8-12 sacks from him as a rookie. Then he went a few games without sacks, and got the foot thing, and everyone started making excuses. He came in on fire this year with 2 sacks early and everyone was back on the bandwagon. Now he's slowed down and everyone starts with the excuses again.

Here is how I see it:
Mario is a good, consistent DE
Mario is NOT a game changing DE at this point

And that is something Im disapointed with, and I think its fair to criticize.

This team has spent 4 consecutive years drafting DL in the 1st round. And we STILL dont have a consistent pass rush or run stopper. Thats failure any way you spin it


From what I've read and seen of Mario, I think he is well on his way to developing into a consistent and solid player. But I still think he should have shown more to merit his position in the draft
Simple, when adequate progession stops. As long as mario continues to progress & get better @ a good clip he's good in my book. IMO, it's hard for any top 5 draft pick to live up to the most times outrageous, expectations some draft gurus & fans put on them, especially when other 2nd day guys begin to make names for themselves. He'd be fine in my book if he were able to progress up to double didget sacks for 4 + years & still be pretty good against the run.
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Old 11-06-2007   #37
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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A quick google search.. I doubt a player compared to Julius & LT is a project.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1561556.shtml
Listen, I am not saying he is a bust but is not doing what he should by now.
That is a news article, I have not heard the comparisons to LT, but Peppers sure. Because he is the same body type, put up the same college numbers and combine numbers as Peppers.

What should he be doing by now? Kubiak seems to be pleased by what he's doing.
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Old 11-06-2007   #38
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

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A quick google search.. I doubt a player compared to Julius & LT is a project.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1561556.shtml
Listen, I am not saying he is a bust but is not doing what he should by now.
What do you mean "by now?" It's only his second season & the way the seasons' been going for most DE's, he could finish right up top with guys like Freeney,Peppers & Taylor.
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Old 11-06-2007   #39
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

1. The Texans history is to have the #1 overall pick signed before they will draft him.

2. Mario Williams draft grade certainly put him into the discussion as worthy of the #1 overall pick.

3. A franchise DE is a cornerstone to build a great defense around.

4. Character, work ethic & being a team player without ego is very important to Bob McNair & the Texans.

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Old 11-06-2007   #40
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Default Re: Our First Round DLine

In all fairness, Mario should not have been a top 10 pick in that draft class in the first place. Combine stats are a wonderous thing. They can make you go from the 2nd/3rd best player on your college's D-Line to the best player in college in no time.

How is fellow Combine-Warrior Vernan Davis doing so far?
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