Dunta-Is this true?

[Mr teX]

I've got respect for Dunta but he needs to shut up at this point, b/c
his unit is the weakest on the defense, yet he keeps vouching for faggins like he's actually a starting CB. Gain control of that part of the defense 1st. I don't care where any of those guys were drafted, The d-line & secondary work together & as long as Faggins & CC brown are on the field, The oppositon will always have someone open on 3-5 step drops in which case a pass rush is pretty much canceled out b/c of how fast the QB can get the ball out.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Vinny

He had good coverage...but the S was like a mile away from the play. We should have had two S up top but we went with single S....bad scheme, poor coaching, and Dunta takes the blame.

Kind of like Mario taking the blame for the d-line whoas when Weaver only has 1 sack in the last 20 odd games as Andre pointed out on 610 a couple of days ago. Or TJ FINALLY showing promise. Really, the guy can't be the only one who is expected to come up with pressure on the QB. As it is, when there is pressure, it's usually him anyway.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Fans can be pretty astute and at the same time they have a tendency to read all the tea leaves as ill visions when the team isn't winning. The problem with using Glenn as an example is we do have an unofficial source--him. He said exactly the same thing as the club, that the Texans intended to keep him when they brought Buchanon in and he asked to be released which they agreed to because of his almost franchise CB salary.

This is all true...but name a player on this team ('cept D.Rob) that has spoken publicly against company policy and lived to be a Texan the next season.

I think of Ray Lewis recently openly criticizing his head coach's decisions to throw passes on short yardage situations. Brian Billick basically agreed with Lewis. Do you honestly think that this Texans FO could stand to have someone out there questioning coaching or personnel decisions?

This team's mentality just seems fragile, IMO, and they lack consistent leadership that actually provides positive influence on the team. I've never seen much from our FO to indicate that they value this trait. More to the point, I am honestly starting to believe that marketing and selling tickets is the primary focus and building a solid football team is secondary if the market supports losing.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

This is all true...but name a player on this team ('cept D.Rob) that has spoken publicly against company policy and lived to be a Texan the next season.

I think of Ray Lewis recently openly criticizing his head coach's decisions to throw passes on short yardage situations. Brian Billick basically agreed with Lewis. Do you honestly think that this Texans FO could stand to have someone out there questioning coaching or personnel decisions?

This team's mentality just seems fragile, IMO, and they lack consistent leadership that actually provides positive influence on the team. I've never seen much from our FO to indicate that they value this trait. More to the point, I am honestly starting to believe that marketing and selling tickets is the primary focus and building a solid football team is secondary if the market supports losing.

That's a little different though. ray is the heart & soul of that team, offense & defense. Billick "the offensive genuis", wouldn't even be wearing a superbowl ring if it wasn't for that guy running that defense the way he did in 2000. Plus, the fans are all on ray's side, popular player wise & in this particular situation. He's also one of the very few players who could do it & get away with it, manning & probably brady being the others.

Since no one now or ever has been able to hold a candle to what ray is or has been to the ravens, that's yet another reason for him to just chill, unless he's saying what he's saying TRYING to get run out of town.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

Kind of like Mario taking the blame for the d-line whoas when Weaver only has 1 sack in the last 20 odd games as Andre pointed out on 610 a couple of days ago. Or TJ FINALLY showing promise. Really, the guy can't be the only one who is expected to come up with pressure on the QB. As it is, when there is pressure, it's usually him anyway.

I think comparing Dunta's situation to Mario's is pretty naive. We have seen Dunta make plays and play his tail off. I can't say I've seen that from Mario yet....the overall #1 pick. It isn't his fault but when you are the #1 overall pick and your team passed over multiple guys who produce, you better be more than "just learning and getting my feet wet."People accept that b.s. too much. The D-line is horrible but as the #1 pick he should be making those guys better not vice versa

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

I think comparing Dunta's situation to Mario's is pretty naive. We have seen Dunta make plays and play his tail off. I can't say I've seen that from Mario yet....the overall #1 pick. It isn't his fault but when you are the #1 overall pick and your team passed over multiple guys who produce, you better be more than "just learning and getting my feet wet."People accept that b.s. too much. The D-line is horrible but as the #1 pick he should be making those guys better not vice versa

Like Dunta, I see mario play hard every week, whether that translates into sacks is another story.
You guys give the others a pass too much & put too much stock in where a guy was drafted. How many times do the patriots have to win the superbowl with 3rd round guys for you guys to see that the best teams are usually those that function as a team; meaning no one person is the key to bringing down the house. You say it isn't his fault that he was drafted where he was, but then back track & say he should be making everyone else better. It goes both ways my friend. You think Ed Reed could roam around & do what he does if he didn't have guys capable of picking up the slack around him? Of all the major sports, this is the closest thing to a team sport there is & whether you guys wanna see it or not Mario nor Dunta for that matter can do it alone in their respective units, they both need help from the others.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

This is all true...but name a player on this team ('cept D.Rob) that has spoken publicly against company policy and lived to be a Texan the next season.

I'm just saying there isn't a single example we have any solid information on that there was payback for speaking out and as you have noted, we have at least one where there hasn't been any so I chock it up to could be but we really don't know.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

Like Dunta, I see mario play hard every week, whether that translates into sacks is another story.
You guys give the others a pass too much & put too much stock in where a guy was drafted. How many times do the patriots have to win the superbowl with 3rd round guys for you guys to see that the best teams are usually those that function as a team; meaning no one person is the key to bringing down the house. You say it isn't his fault that he was drafted where he was, but then back track & say he should be making everyone else better. It goes both ways my friend. You think Ed Reed could roam around & do what he does if he didn't have guys capable of picking up the slack around him? Of all the major sports, this is the closest thing to a team sport there is & whether you guys wanna see it or not Mario nor Dunta for that matter can do it alone in their respective units, they both need help from the others.

With the way you are putting it, then there are NEVER any special players and that great players are because of great teammates. Not true. How do you think DeMeco makes plays and is a leader his rookie year. That same D-line has to cover him and make sure he has room to move. Yet he has an inate ability to make play. I said it isn't Marios fault where he was drafted but the label will always be #1. Sorry but if you are #1 you shouldn't act like a project. I'm not sure what games you are watching but I've never seen a guy with his size get taken out and puched back and out of plays by one guy. Again, WE were told that he was what we were missing for a pass rush. He is a pass rushing specialist. HE should be opening things up for others not the other way around. I also never excused the other guys on the line. And to answer your question, YES on Ed Reed because the guy is a playmaker and can lay the wood. He is the coach and leader fo the secondary, just like DeMeco runs our D. I don't give anyone on this team a pass, I just think Dunta and DeMeco are two that can say they have shown the talent to start on other teams. You also are wrong if you don't think guys like Seymour and some others weren't studs making lesser guys betteron teams like the Pats. I'll never get why fans here love to accept mediocre play and guys who "take time." Why can't a Jacoby or a DeMeco be an example of a fearless guy who makes plays when given the chance.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

I'm just saying there isn't a single example we have any solid information on that there was payback for speaking out and as you have noted, we have at least one where there hasn't been any so I chock it up to could be but we really don't know.

yep...I'll be the first to admit that being a fan of a habitually losing team causes the mind to wonder about speculative scenarios. Wish things were different, but we don't even seem to put forth a competitive effort lately, which is the M.O. of the 'same old Texans'.

[dskillz]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

This is all true...but name a player on this team ('cept D.Rob) that has spoken publicly against company policy and lived to be a Texan the next season.

I think of Ray Lewis recently openly criticizing his head coach's decisions to throw passes on short yardage situations. Brian Billick basically agreed with Lewis. Do you honestly think that this Texans FO could stand to have someone out there questioning coaching or personnel decisions?

This team's mentality just seems fragile, IMO, and they lack consistent leadership that actually provides positive influence on the team. I've never seen much from our FO to indicate that they value this trait. More to the point, I am honestly starting to believe that marketing and selling tickets is the primary focus and building a solid football team is secondary if the market supports losing.

You hit the nail right on the head. I wonder how Kubiak is taking one of his best players basically say just the opposite of what he has said every week. If you want to take that a step further, maybe Dunta is questioning what Kubiak is seeing on the field every week.

I am starting to question the ownership of this team myself. Seems that even with an almost total overhaul of the coaching staff and players, the same losing mentality is still there. Is it coming from the top???

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

With the way you are putting it, then there are NEVER any special players and that great players are because of great teammates. Not true. How do you think DeMeco makes plays and is a leader his rookie year. That same D-line has to cover him and make sure he has room to move. Yet he has an inate ability to make play. I said it isn't Marios fault where he was drafted but the label will always be #1. Sorry but if you are #1 you shouldn't act like a project. I'm not sure what games you are watching but I've never seen a guy with his size get taken out and puched back and out of plays by one guy. Again, WE were told that he was what we were missing for a pass rush. He is a pass rushing specialist. HE should be opening things up for others not the other way around. I also never excused the other guys on the line. And to answer your question, YES on Ed Reed because the guy is a playmaker and can lay the wood. He is the coach and leader fo the secondary, just like DeMeco runs our D. I don't give anyone on this team a pass, I just think Dunta and DeMeco are two that can say they have shown the talent to start on other teams. You also are wrong if you don't think guys like Seymour and some others weren't studs making lesser guys betteron teams like the Pats. I'll never get why fans here love to accept mediocre play and guys who "take time." Why can't a Jacoby or a DeMeco be an example of a fearless guy who makes plays when given the chance.

Well for starters, there are only max 3 guys on the entire defense that almost all teams would take on as starters, mario is one of them.
& i guess the pats have really missed Seymour's play on defense up to this point & they really missed Harrison in the secondary.

You're right he is a pass rush specialist who's supossed to be opening things up for everyone else, but you're crazy if you think that it's not supposed to work the other way around either.

There are special players in this league, but for a defense/offense to function at it's best as a unit, others have to be able to pick up the slack when the main guys aren't producing, schemed against, injured etc. I felt the same at the beginning of the year when mario got 2 sacks on opening day & the defense looked good & i feel the same way now that he & the defense are struggling.

[Marcus]

Just got through reading this long thread. Some comments...

Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy

...I always get concerned when players start calling each other in public. I cannot decide if Dunta is trying to be aleader and motivate Mario or if he frustration is just boiling over. My issue is the "every play" crack, as I could easily see this causing alot of resentment within the locker room (espically in light of the end of the Tennesse game). This could also be a sign that Kubiak is on the verge of losing this team.

Don't get me wrong I like the fact that Dunta alsways speaks his mind, and I fully supported him in his comments about Carr last season. But the difference is that Dunta is making these comments in the middle of the season.

I have the very same concerns here. For a player, there is a time and place for airing your concerns. Other than just telling the fans what they want to hear, I don't see how making these feelings known publicly, as opposed to making them behind closed doors, can be anything but counterproductive . . . unless he has an ulterior motive.

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

This owner is big on "high character", and it seems safe to assume that speaking out publicly against the company line is frowned upon.

D'Rob's a pretty smart guy. You don't think he didn't know this beforehand?

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

I am honestly starting to believe that marketing and selling tickets is the primary focus and building a solid football team is secondary if the market supports losing.

Uh, you've lost me on that one. Leaving tickets out of it, explain to me how the market would support losing? I've had my own complaints about McNair, but I don't see how he would think that anything but a winning team would increase marketing.

Originally Posted by Mr teX

Since no one now or ever has been able to hold a candle to what ray is or has been to the ravens, that's yet another reason for him to just chill, unless he's saying what he's saying TRYING to get run out of town.

Back to that ulterior motive. Maybe he's doing this to fast track his way out of here before contract time.

Like I said before, airing these "dirty laundry" comments publicly, rather than in the locker room, where only the players and coaches can hear, I can't see how there would not be some sort of resentment.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

Well for starters, there are only max 3 guys on the entire defense that almost all teams would take on as starters, mario is one of them. & i guess the pats have really missed Seymour's play on defense up to this point & they really missed Harrison in the secondary.

You're right he is a pass rush specialist who's supossed to be opening things up for everyone else, but you're crazy if you think that it's not supposed to work the other way around either.

There are special players in this league, but for a defense/offense to function at it's best as a unit, others have to be able to pick up the slack when the main guys aren't producing, schemed against, injured etc. I felt the same at the beginning of the year when mario got 2 sacks on opening day & the defense looked good & i feel the same way now that he & the defense are struggling.

I agree that units have to work together. I think the Pats D is substantially better with those guys vs. without them. They still have only played one top team and that team exposed some defensive problems. But your argument goes both ways since they did win with crap receivers look how much better they are with top receivers. The bolded part we will agree to disagree. Other teams would take him maybe but not as a starter IMHO. Where we are disagreeing is who should be helping who the most. We passed up a boatload of 1st round guys...not just the popular names..who can make plays for him, so I want to see more than "progress" or plays I have to hear about from Kubes secret films.

[Leahmic223]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

I agree that units have to work together. I think the Pats D is substantially better with those guys vs. without them. They still have only played one top team and that team exposed some defensive problems. But your argument goes both ways since they did win with crap receivers look how much better they are with top receivers. The bolded part we will agree to disagree. Other teams would take him maybe but not as a starter IMHO. Where we are disagreeing is who should be helping who the most. We passed up a boatload of 1st round guys...not just the popular names..who can make plays for him, so I want to see more than "progress" or plays I have to hear about from Kubes secret films.

The films are not secret, they just see more than we do.

What Kubiak is PROBABLY seeing is that the secondary gets beat to quick for Mario to get any pressure, I know I saw several times where Mario rushed the passer only to see the QB pass it to a open guy. That's not mario fault, that is someone's else. The coaches just see something different.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

I agree that units have to work together. I think the Pats D is substantially better with those guys vs. without them. They still have only played one top team and that team exposed some defensive problems. But your argument goes both ways since they did win with crap receivers look how much better they are with top receivers. The bolded part we will agree to disagree. Other teams would take him maybe but not as a starter IMHO. Where we are disagreeing is who should be helping who the most. We passed up a boatload of 1st round guys...not just the popular names..who can make plays for him, so I want to see more than "progress" or plays I have to hear about from Kubes secret films.

saying the bolded really isn't saying much though b/c i guarantee u that every team does that @ 1 point or another on the 1st day of the draft. If we had a re-draft after all of these players' 1st seasons in the NFL , there'd be at least 5 teams who'd be killing themselves trying to land Addai way earlier than he was picked that year. Ditto for Marcus McNeil, Maurice Jones Drew & Devin Hester. Yet none of these guys were thought to be top 10 in the draft at any point.

I understand your overall point though i agree somewhat, but as with DC, i won't lay the blame completely at his feet when it comes to something that 3 others are responsible for as well.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Leahmic223

The films are not secret, they just see more than we do.
What Kubiak is PROBABLY seeing is that the secondary gets beat to quick for Mario to get any pressure, I know I saw several times where Mario rushed the passer only to see the QB pass it to a open guy. That's not mario fault, that is someone's else. The coaches just see something different.

I know, I'm half joking since I DVR some games and try to see what he sees but don't. The problem I have is that it isn't what you are explaining that he talks about it. It is phantom double teams that he drives through and gets there right when the QB is throwing that Kubes speaks of. Maybe it is me, it is definitely not a cut on people like you trying to defend Mario, but I of the opinion that I'm tired of exucses for him and he should be farther along this.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

I know, I'm half joking since I DVR some games and try to see what he sees but don't. The problem I have is that it isn't what you are explaining that he talks about it. It is phantom double teams that he drives through and gets there right when the QB is throwing that Kubes speaks of. Maybe it is me, it is definitely not a cut on people like you trying to defend Mario, but I of the opinion that I'm tired of exucses for him and he should be farther along this.

Well DE is more than sacks- run responsibility, getting his share of the pressure etc. i think that's what Kubes is speaking of. Meaning mario does everything that they're asking him to do.

[Leahmic223]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

I know, I'm half joking since I DVR some games and try to see what he sees but don't. The problem I have is that it isn't what you are explaining that he talks about it. It is phantom double teams that he drives through and gets there right when the QB is throwing that Kubes speaks of. Maybe it is me, it is definitely not a cut on people like you trying to defend Mario, but I of the opinion that I'm tired of exucses for him and he should be farther along this.

Lol I know I saw the phantom double team also. The LG never comitted to Mario so it wasn't really a double team. But I defend our 2006 #1 pick, I think sometimes the Houston fans are too hard on the guy.

Also we didn't really pass up anything to get him. Bush still hasn't proved his potential and VY either. Same with D'Brick. As mr.Tex is saying every team passes up guys they should have got.

If you were to do the draft again guy slike Demeco, Addai would be top 5. But you can't do it again, and Mario was going to be the first defensive player taken even if we skipped on him. Players are drafted by potential and I don't think any of the top 3 guys have reached it yet.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Marcus

Uh, you've lost me on that one. Leaving tickets out of it, explain to me how the market would support losing? I've had my own complaints about McNair, but I don't see how he would think that anything but a winning team would increase marketing.

The Houston Texans are on of the most valuable sports franchises around, in spite of a history of losing and mediocre play. The games have been sold-out for six seasons straight. You can find Texans gear in a huge variety of colors and objects. Marketing and selling tickets are the one thing this team excels at when you step back and look at the big picture.

Where is the incentive to really shake things up? Sure McNair would like more market share and I have no doubt that he'd like to win more games. But I have yet to see any really big names associated with the front office. Our two head coaches have one winning season between them in their HC careers, an overhyped GM in Casserly, inexperienced GM in Smith, and our coordinators ('cept Sherman) are not from winning backgrounds in their respective positions. Heck, this is Richard Smith's first job as DC! yeah, that is awe-inspiring....or not.

The point being: why spend a lot of money acquiring big time coordinators and assistance coaches if people support the product in spite of being mediocre?

Originally Posted by Leahmic223

Same with D'Brick.

No offense, but you haven't watched much of D'Brickashaw Ferguson with a comment like that. Most experts project him as a dominant LT in just his second season. He won't get Pro Bowl honors playing on a losing Jets team, though, so people disregard him until they make a splash.

[Specnatz]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

The Houston Texans are on of the most valuable sports franchises around, in spite of a history of losing and mediocre play. The games have been sold-out for six seasons straight. You can find Texans gear in a huge variety of colors and objects. Marketing and selling tickets are the one thing this team excels at when you step back and look at the big picture.

Where is the incentive to really shake things up? Sure McNair would like more market share and I have no doubt that he'd like to win more games. But I have yet to see any really big names associated with the front office. Our two head coaches have one winning season between them in their HC careers, an overhyped GM in Casserly, inexperienced GM in Smith, and our coordinators ('cept Sherman) are not from winning backgrounds in their respective positions. Heck, this is Richard Smith's first job as DC! yeah, that is awe-inspiring....or not.

The point being: why spend a lot of money acquiring big time coordinators and assistance coaches if people support the product in spite of being mediocre?

I keep hearing this spend money on big name coordinators and everything will be fine speech, but for some reason I do not see the Pats doing that and they still win. The just have a better assesment of the ones they do hire.

The Redskins have how much money tied up in DC and OC? Does not seem to be doing them any good and those two coordinators were high on a lot of peoples list, including the DC for either the same position here or HC when Kubiak was hired.