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Old 10-22-2007   #41
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Thanks for using your amazing powers of assumption and generalizing my point.

I never called Mario a bust.

But as a first overall pick, I'd like to see some - heck ANY - consistency from the guy.

How long does the first game's performance carry him this season? How long do the handful of moments he's had keep us from objectively analyzing his game?

Seriously, he's got the protective homer bubble around him, so I'm just curious how long we have to wait until we can be disappointed by his non-impacting play.

Maybe if we give him four years + $8 million signing bonus for an extra year....yeah, that's it, we just give him tiiiiiime.

What type of consistency? Like I said, Reggie, VY, and many other rookies from his class have yet to show they can produce game in game out, that is ALWAYS the problem with young players.

Also, I guess no one noticed Mario had 7 tackles and 3 hurries yesterday, yes such a HORRIBLE game. Man Mario what were doing out there, nothing!?!?

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Like when your team rallies from a 32-7 deficit to score 29 points in the fourth to gain a lead with less than a minute on the clock?

yeah, that's when I would like to see ANY of our three 1st round picks on the defensive line do ANYTHING other than dance with offensive linemen.

We are drafting way too high and paying way too much to fail to put any pressure on a 55% career completions backup QB who is winding up to throw a bomb.

JMO
No, lets forget that Dunta didn't step up when we needed him, even he admitted to that.
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Old 10-23-2007   #42
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Travis is a "no sign of being a force yet".
i said it on sunday but its worth repeating-i think hes showing signs


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Like when your team rallies from a 32-7 deficit to score 29 points in the fourth to gain a lead with less than a minute on the clock?

yeah, that's when I would like to see ANY of our three 1st round picks on the defensive line do ANYTHING other than dance with offensive linemen.

We are drafting way too high and paying way too much to fail to put any pressure on a 55% career completions backup QB who is winding up to throw a bomb.
i know mario didnt play great but i think you guys have unrealistic expectations- yes mario should be an impact player but to expect him to just blast by an nfl T during a specific (important) play.. look at what he did on that play.. you could see he was desperate to make a play too.. he had the T bullrushed back beside collins, if he doesnt get rid of it so quickly (<3 secs), its a sack.. collins makes a very good throw and the wr makes a nice play which dunta needs to (should've) make (and who cares about collins career stats?? on that play he makes a nice play).. thats it- (sh)it happens

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and the offense...oye...all that bad offense in the first half was just a matter of three things...lack of talent, bad coaching/schemes (Kubiak outcoached), and losing the battle in the trenches. All that said...when the offense gives your team the lead with under a min left and you are kicking off to a team that doesn't have their game breaker RB in, their starting QB in (Collins is a lifetime 55% passer), and without their best WR....you should win. Until teams have to worry about our pass rush we will not be a good team in the NFL. The first thing I asked myself on that long pass to win the game was where the F was the safety?
the safety was (rightfully) giving petey cover.. the other guy was playing the short man (we blitzed 2).. our best cb was 1-on-1 with roydell williams and should've made a play given that collins had to get rid of the ball quickly and he had position.. it was one play that 9/10 is an incompletion/interception.. no need for all the added drama (best rb, wr lol- were we missing our 'best' safety?)


anyway i think most people in this thread are overreacting to a tough loss.. so i gues im still just sipping the kool-aid
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Old 10-23-2007   #43
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

I'm a little worried that in todays paper Kubiak said Mario played well. This has to be his way of coddling the guy. He them throws out a backhanded cutdown by saying he needs to be an Pro-Bowler for years though. Build him up Kubes....that or you are crazy. Mario played "well" if well means non-existent and "another gear" means 1st.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/5236568.html

Quote:
Texans coach Gary Kubiak said Mario Williams played well against the Titans, but the team needs the second-year player to take his game to another level. Williams had four tackles Sunday.

I think for our football team to reach another level of play, he's got to continue to find another gear," Kubiak said Monday. "Is his gear good now? Yeah, it's pretty darn good, but we need Mario to become a great, great player — a Pro Bowl player for a long, long time for our organization.So we're going to keep pushing him. Was his effort pretty good yesterday? Did he play well? Yes, he did."
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Old 10-23-2007   #44
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I'm a little worried that in todays paper Kubiak said Mario played well. This has to be his way of coddling the guy. He them throws out a backhanded cutdown by saying he needs to be an Pro-Bowler for years though. Build him up Kubes....that or you are crazy. Mario played "well" if well means non-existent and "another gear" means 1st.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/5236568.html
Here's the complete quote to put it in context:

Quote:
(on the play of DE Mario Williams) He played pretty good yesterday; he graded out well. I think he had seven tackles. He had three quarterback pressures. We continue to try to get more out of him. I say that, and when I say what I mean is that I think for our football team to reach another level of play, hes got to continue to find another gear. Is his gear good now? Yeah, its pretty darn good, but we need Mario to become a great, great player a Pro Bowl player for a long, long time for our organization. So were going to keep pushing him. Was his effort pretty good yesterday? Did he play well? Yes, he did.
Kubiak at his press conferences is asked about various players. He answers the questions. They asked about Williams so that is his answer. I don't think he is trying to puff on this point.

As for the people suggesting that Mario Williams was just a combine phenom, that is revisionist history.

He was a great player at NC State according to the people who watched him play, was named team MVP on a defense that basically carried that team because the offense was so bad. He had career and junior year statistics that were very similar to Julius Peppers, a guy who basically played against the same sort of competition in the ACC.

Mario said after the draft that the team that spoke to him the most pre-draft and seemed the most interested in having him play there was Saints with the second pick, and if he had gone there, nobody would have been talking bust on the day he was drafted.

I think that Kubiak plays it pretty straight when it comes to saying what he is thinking about players. Maybe not so forthcoming as it relates to injuries.
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Old 10-23-2007   #45
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Some things have gone very right this year on offense. QB, WR, and TE are all "done". We have our players there. We are "improved". Coach Kubiak can't ignore what isn't right though. He can't pull a Dom Capers on us and spend four years telling us that Richard Smith is a quality defensive coordinator. He can't let Mike Sherman tinker on offense for four years trying to make pieces from two different puzzles fit together.

Notably QB, WR, and TE are all handled in the way that the Denver system does it. The TE coach is close to Kubiak, and Shanny jr, worked with both the WR and QBs and knows the Denver system better than just about anyone other than his dad.

The offensive line needs a philosophy to believe and to acquire players to suit. That has been an ongoing issue since the beginning of the franchise.
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Old 10-23-2007   #46
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Here's the complete quote to put it in context:



Kubiak at his press conferences is asked about various players. He answers the questions. They asked about Williams so that is his answer. I don't think he is trying to puff on this point.

As for the people suggesting that Mario Williams was just a combine phenom, that is revisionist history.

He was a great player at NC State according to the people who watched him play, was named team MVP on a defense that basically carried that team because the offense was so bad. He had career and junior year statistics that were very similar to Julius Peppers, a guy who basically played against the same sort of competition in the ACC.

Mario said after the draft that the team that spoke to him the most pre-draft and seemed the most interested in having him play there was Saints with the second pick, and if he had gone there, nobody would have been talking bust on the day he was drafted.

I think that Kubiak plays it pretty straight when it comes to saying what he is thinking about players. Maybe not so forthcoming as it relates to injuries.
TC, I wasn't trying to take the quote out of context because he obviously was saying he can play better. But I still think, when watching the game that the guy disappears. I don't see what Kubiak sees..a guy playing in a "pretty good gear." I've never called Mario a straight out "workout warrior" but I do think his college stats or relative. He beefed up against some college teams that were weak and disappeared against some stronger teams. That seems like what we hear about here. That's my beef. Show me more technique that you can get around these linemen and aren't being stalemated. I just keep hearing Kubes say he is making plays and doing things that we can't see and I don't see it.
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Old 10-23-2007   #47
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

My hope at this point is that somebody on the DL (Amobi I'm looking at you right now) blows up big and starts to take more than his share of attention to stop. Then Mario and Travis start to look better as a result.

I know it's a pretty weak spin on "First overall pick of the 2006 draft" but it's all I got at this point. It's clear to me after just under 1.5 years that Mario isn't going to start throwing guys aside like rag dolls and eating quarterbacks for lunch on a consistent basis. Ultimately I think that all you have to do is hit a home run on one of those picks and the other two will look better for playing on the same line.

If Mario does then suddenly "click" on and become better than good then I think we have a truly scary defensive line on our hands. I just don't think the odds are so good.

I just wish the Texans had done so many things differently
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Old 10-23-2007   #48
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
My hope at this point is that somebody on the DL (Amobi I'm looking at you right now) blows up big and starts to take more than his share of attention to stop. Then Mario and Travis start to look better as a result.

I know it's a pretty weak spin on "First overall pick of the 2006 draft" but it's all I got at this point. It's clear to me after just under 1.5 years that Mario isn't going to start throwing guys aside like rag dolls and eating quarterbacks for lunch on a consistent basis. Ultimately I think that all you have to do is hit a home run on one of those picks and the other two will look better for playing on the same line.

If Mario does then suddenly "click" on and become better than good then I think we have a truly scary defensive line on our hands. I just don't think the odds are so good.

I just wish the Texans had done so many things differently
Very good points. I agree. One of the only ways I see him start making consistent plays is if we get others around him making plays and then he is able to get some better matchups and to feed off the lines improvement. I see Reggie Nelson last night and he was one I really wanted this past draft. Though I'm very happy with Okoye. I just like playmaking guys in the defensive backfield.
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Old 10-23-2007   #49
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

I was big on Nelson as well...

I really dislike the fact that he ended up in Jacksonvillage.
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Old 10-23-2007   #50
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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TC, I wasn't trying to take the quote out of context because he obviously was saying he can play better. But I still think, when watching the game that the guy disappears. I don't see what Kubiak sees..a guy playing in a "pretty good gear." I've never called Mario a straight out "workout warrior" but I do think his college stats or relative. He beefed up against some college teams that were weak and disappeared against some stronger teams. That seems like what we hear about here. That's my beef. Show me more technique that you can get around these linemen and aren't being stalemated. I just keep hearing Kubes say he is making plays and doing things that we can't see and I don't see it.
I agree here, he disappears some plays and sometimes drives. Also he seems to have one move. Watch Freeney, watch any elite DE and they have a few moves they go to. Mario seems to have a bullrush...thats about it, and its not that effective. I can see if it was working for him but it isn't. Hopefully he will get it down, but I don't feel like he's going to be playing like he is now for the next 10 years.
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Old 10-23-2007   #51
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

I am certainly no expert but does it seem that Mario should stay lower on his rushes? Seems as though he gets "stood up" and loses his power. That would be ok if he was running around the blocker but not going through the blocker, if that makes sense.
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Old 10-23-2007   #52
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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I am certainly no expert but does it seem that Mario should stay lower on his rushes? Seems as though he gets "stood up" and loses his power. That would be ok if he was running around the blocker but not going through the blocker, if that makes sense.
Funny you say that because here is one draft preview

http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showpl...io%20Williams*

Quote:
Cons: Has not picked up all the skills needed to be the among the best in the NFL. Needs to play lower or will be out-leveraged by strong offensive players. Doesn't translate as well as a 3-4 DE despite his size. Not as good as he needs to be against the run.
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Old 10-23-2007   #53
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

How long does it take a football player to fire out low ?
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Old 10-23-2007   #54
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Notably QB, WR, and TE are all handled in the way that the Denver system does it. The TE coach is close to Kubiak, and Shanny jr, worked with both the WR and QBs and knows the Denver system better than just about anyone other than his dad.

The offensive line needs a philosophy to believe and to acquire players to suit. That has been an ongoing issue since the beginning of the franchise.
Maybe small OLs work well in Denver because of the altitude . Maybe once the big DL get winded , the small guys out quick them and have more stamina ... just a thought .

I want a nasty , physical OL that can kick your butt no matter what they're playing . That's something that's hard to defend and demoralizing ... we've seen it .

Being that Jacksonville and the Titans are in our conference ( that's 4 games a year ) , we better adapt to playing against big , aggressive DLs . I think this means we need Spencer to come back as a gaurd and draft a LT . Now we also need a center but you can only do so much in an offseason .
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Old 10-23-2007   #55
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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Very good points. I agree. One of the only ways I see him start making consistent plays is if we get others around him making plays and then he is able to get some better matchups and to feed off the lines improvement. I see Reggie Nelson last night and he was one I really wanted this past draft. Though I'm very happy with Okoye. I just like playmaking guys in the defensive backfield.
I think Nelson was taken off of our draft board due to character concerns....supposedly we take more players off our draft board than any team in the NFL.
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Old 10-23-2007   #56
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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As for the people suggesting that Mario Williams was just a combine phenom, that is revisionist history.
actually I think it is more revisionist to say he wasn't a workout warrior. He got most of his stats against powerhouses like Wake Forest and the little sisters of the poor. Ever notice his College highlight flicks are mainly only against like 2 teams?
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Old 10-23-2007   #57
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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I think Nelson was taken off of our draft board due to character concerns....supposedly we take more players off our draft board than any team in the NFL.
That is a good thing to look at but I wouldn't mind a little nasty/edge here and there.

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actually I think it is more revisionist to say he wasn't a workout warrior. He got most of his stats against powerhouses like Wake Forest and the little sisters of the poor.
That's exactly what I said above. He'd go games with nothing and all of sudden have a 4 sack game. Its funny if you read his year by year stats it is the same type thing. In 2004 he went the first 5 games without a sack and then got one and had 3, but he did it against FSU. But it was still telling that he wasn't posting numbers for games and then would have a big one.

Same draft preview as above

http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showpl...io%20Williams*

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In 2004: Notched his first sack of the season in the loss at North Carolina, the fifth game of the season ... After that contest, tallied five more, including three versus Florida State
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Old 10-23-2007   #58
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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I just wish the Texans had done so many things differently
Be very honest with me and tell me if you're not saying this out of a little bit of hindsight.
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Old 10-23-2007   #59
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I think Nelson was taken off of our draft board due to character concerns....supposedly we take more players off our draft board than any team in the NFL.
I wonder if Bob and Drayton have contest on who's got the nicest guys .

I know TO , pacman , vick , and Tank are not guys you would want .
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Old 10-23-2007   #60
Double Barrel
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Default Re: Kubiak: Better Coach, Same Problem?

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Originally Posted by Leahmic223 View Post
I agree here, he disappears some plays and sometimes drives. Also he seems to have one move. Watch Freeney, watch any elite DE and they have a few moves they go to. Mario seems to have a bullrush...thats about it, and its not that effective. I can see if it was working for him but it isn't. Hopefully he will get it down, but I don't feel like he's going to be playing like he is now for the next 10 years.
Wait, you're talking about CONSISTENCY here, right?

I could've sworn I've heard that before....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
But as a first overall pick, I'd like to see some - heck ANY - consistency from the guy.
Let me give you a nice response to your 'Mario bashing'...errrrr...analysis:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leahmic223 View Post
What type of consistency? Like I said, Reggie, VY, and many other rookies from his class have yet to show they can produce game in game out, that is ALWAYS the problem with young players.

Also, I guess no one noticed Mario had 7 tackles and 3 hurries yesterday, yes such a HORRIBLE game. Man Mario what were doing out there, nothing!?!?

No, lets forget that Dunta didn't step up when we needed him, even he admitted to that.
Which is it with you? Mario needs to be more consistent, or he did a fantastic job?

P.S. D.Rob was as close to covering the WR as you could get. He just got beat. It happens.

But if Collins had been PASS RUSHED at all, he would not have had time to set up that bomb in the first place. Hmmmm, whose job is it to PASS RUSH?

And I could care less about what Reggie or VY does in relation to Mario. They are not Texans and have no bearing on my mindset (I was a D'Brick guy).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
i know mario didnt play great but i think you guys have unrealistic expectations- yes mario should be an impact player but to expect him to just blast by an nfl T during a specific (important) play.. look at what he did on that play.. you could see he was desperate to make a play too.. he had the T bullrushed back beside collins, if he doesnt get rid of it so quickly (<3 secs), its a sack.. collins makes a very good throw and the wr makes a nice play which dunta needs to (should've) make (and who cares about collins career stats?? on that play he makes a nice play).. thats it- (sh)it happens

the safety was (rightfully) giving petey cover.. the other guy was playing the short man (we blitzed 2).. our best cb was 1-on-1 with roydell williams and should've made a play given that collins had to get rid of the ball quickly and he had position.. it was one play that 9/10 is an incompletion/interception.. no need for all the added drama (best rb, wr lol- were we missing our 'best' safety?)

anyway i think most people in this thread are overreacting to a tough loss.. so i gues im still just sipping the kool-aid
You are probably right about people reacting to a tough loss.

But with regards to your first statement regarding "unrealistic expectations", what should we expect from THREE FIRST ROUND PICKS on our defensive line? We used high picks because we want a pass rush, yet it isn't happening. I think we have a right to EXPECT SOMETHING, and if it is unrealistic then I guess we should just golf clap for our defense and expect nothing from them. They can live up to those expectations.
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