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Old 10-22-2007   #41
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Default Re: Can playcalling overcome a manhandled OL?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Well, let's just go down to O Lines R Us and get us some good linemen OK?

Oh wait...we can't do that. We'll have to just wait and address it after the season.

Afraid we won't address it after this season? That's actually a logical fear to have, I admit it as much.

But here's the deal: Due to a complete and utter lack of management by the previous HC and GM...we had too many holes to fill in too short a time.

We HAD to get the d line shored up, and we have. I doubt we see a 1st day pick on d line in 2008.

We HAD a pretty good LT named Charles Spencer until he went down. IIRC, we drafted o line back-to-back in the third round to get Spencer and Winston. Winston is doing OK, IMO. Spencer in there would help a little.

Other teams are locking up their good o linemen, which is smart. We didn't sell the farm to get Orlando Pace...aren't you glad? He's sitting on a couch and costing HIS team a lot of cap space, not ours.

Perhaps we can pull a 49ers and spend big on o line the same way they spent big on Nate Clements.

Until then, the best we can do is do what got us the win in weeks 1 and 2: Get the ball into our WRs hands--3 and 4 WR sets, and get it into their hands so they can make the plays.

If that's MY fault for seeing that THAT'S the only thing that's getting us anywhere, then continue to bash me.

Everybody wants to know what we can do? We can do what we can do. And what we can do, right now, is to have Kubiak stop pretending that this offense is going to turn a corner and become some powerhouse team that can do whatever it wants as long as we "wish and hope and believe enough in it."

My ability to say "Hey! Get rid of the ball, it's been working when you DO it.." is not also a statement by me that says I think we should stop scrutinizing the o line.

I'm not THAT blind or ignorant.

But if you want to stop the bleeding, if you want to see us stop getting steamrolled early and often in games...well, maybe we should play to our strengths and then attempt to address this fractured oline when we CAN.

Crying about the oline is not going to make the coaches and the GM go "OH! Let's cut 'em all and go find us some good olinemen! They might be near the aisle where RBs and DCs are located..."

Free agency is dead. The draft is where you have to build your team at every position, and then you LOCK UP those guys and keep them like Indy does.

We've had two years, and I think Kubiak/Rick Smith have done all they can do in terms of what you can do in two drafts and virtually no free money to wave at free agents.

Until 2008, we gotta' get rid of the ball and play hide-and-go-seek if we want to NOT get slaughtered.

Sorry if this peeves people off, but the other solution is to (A) pretend we can do what other teams do on gameday, which we cannot...or (B) go out and get us some big name free agents, which we cannot until we get the free'd up cap space.
Several times in the history of the Texans, they have tried to fix line problems by buying a player off the open market (e.g., Victor Riley). It hasn't worked yet. So I am in complete agreement with you. They need to draft their line and not buy the line. In the meantime, they will have to make due with what they've got. And if they can't get the ball out of there fast enough, they'll suffer for it.

I hope I'm not the one you see as bashing you. I agree with you and wanted to add to what you said as part of the discussion.
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Old 10-22-2007   #42
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Default Re: Can playcalling overcome a manhandled OL?

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Originally Posted by Texans Horror View Post
Several times in the history of the Texans, they have tried to fix line problems by buying a player off the open market (e.g., Victor Riley). It hasn't worked yet. So I am in complete agreement with you. They need to draft their line and not buy the line. In the meantime, they will have to make due with what they've got. And if they can't get the ball out of there fast enough, they'll suffer for it.

I hope I'm not the one you see as bashing you. I agree with you and wanted to add to what you said as part of the discussion.
What both of you guys fail to realize is that the whole "getting the ball out fast enough" thing was said about DC last year. & since we all agree that Schaub is light years ahead of DC in terms of QBing, I think we can rule out schaub as the problem. He's just got the same affliction as DC had last year........... bad Olineitis.
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Old 10-22-2007   #43
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Default Re: Can playcalling overcome a manhandled OL?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Well, let's just go down to O Lines R Us and get us some good linemen OK

Oh wait...we can't do that. We'll have to just wait and address it after the season.
Some of us on these boards have been begging for the team to do just that - since we knew Boselli wasn't coming back. Aside from Pitts, we haven't drafted a lineman higher than the 3rd round. Approximately 75% of the starting left tackles in the NFL have been drafted before halfway into the 2nd round. If this team continues to gamble that they are going to strike gold in the 3rd round and later, they are going to continue getting what they've gotten. More to the point, we fans are going to continue getting what we have supported.

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Afraid we won't address it after this season? That's actually a logical fear to have, I admit it as much.
If history is any indication, we have every reason to be concerned.

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
But here's the deal: Due to a complete and utter lack of management by the previous HC and GM...we had too many holes to fill in too short a time.

We HAD to get the d line shored up, and we have. I doubt we see a 1st day pick on d line in 2008.
I am a Mario supporter, and I like Okoye, but to say we had to get the D-Line shored up over the offensive line is incorrect - it was a decision they made, as both lines needed help. Given that this team has never had a good left tackle, that need, in my mind, would have trumped D-Line.

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We HAD a pretty good LT named Charles Spencer until he went down.
We had a guy who showed some promise, and only played about 5 quarters of football. To label him "good" is a bit misleading. To rely on him to return is foolhardy, IMO.

As for the whole "same offensive line as last year" garbage that floats around - first of all, it's mostly the same line that was in place for about the final quarter of the season. Second, it's not at all comparable to some of the offensive lines that have plagued this team in years past. As much as I complain about the left tackle, Ephraim Salaam is not terrible, like Riley was. He's not as bad as Todd Wade was. But he has problems in pass pro, and he's not the answer at that position. It will be some time coming, but how long will it be before this line (or future variants, given the same lack of dedication to fixing it) ruins Matt Schaub?
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Last edited by eriadoc; 10-22-2007 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 10-22-2007   #44
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Default Re: Can playcalling overcome a manhandled OL?

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Some of us on these boards have been begging for the team to do just that - since we knew Boselli wasn't coming back. Aside from Pitts, we haven't drafted a lineman higher than the 3rd round. Approximately 75% of the starting left tackles in the NFL have been drafted before halfway into the 2nd round. If this team continues to gamble that they are going to strike gold in the 3rd round and later, they are going to continue getting what they've gotten. More to the point, we fans are going to continue getting what we have supported.



If history is any indication, we have every reason to be concerned.



I am a Mario supporter, and I like Okoye, but to say we had to get the D-Line shored up over the offensive line is incorrect - it was a decision they made, as both lines needed help. Given that this team has never had a good left tackle, that need, in my mind, would have trumped D-Line.



We had a guy who showed some promise, and only played about 5 quarters of football. To label him "good" is a bit misleading. To rely on him to return is foolhardy, IMO.

As for the whole "same offensive line as last year" garbage that floats around - first of all, it's mostly the same line that was in place for about the final quarter of the season. Second, it's not at all comparable to some of the offensive lines that have plagued this team in years past. As much as I complain about the left tackle, Ephraim Salaam is not terrible, like Riley was. He's not as bad as Todd Wade was. But he has problems in pass pro, and he's not the answer at that position. It will be some time coming, but how long will it be before this line (or future variants, given the same lack of dedication to fixing it) ruins Matt Schaub?


If they don't address it soon (like by the end of the season) that will be the question to be answered indeed. We'll be like a dog chasing its tail.
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Old 10-22-2007   #45
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Default Re: Can playcalling overcome a manhandled OL?

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b) Most assuredly. The problem is, this coaching staff has not addressed the talent issue very well.

Exhibit A. They paid Jordan Black $1M to sign on the dotted line. Fans were ecstatic - he started for a play-off team last year! Then the coaches saw him in camp and the fans saw him in the pre-season. Isn't he even an option to take over the starting role with Salaam playing so badly? Bad personnel move.

Exhibit B. Spencer went down last year after 1.5 games and they inserted their 3rd best LT from training camp, Salaam, into the starting role. They then picked up Brad Bedell to back him up because he could play guard too. The 15 minutes he played last year he gave up a sack or two, and he never saw the field again. A limping, well under 100% Salaam was preferable to the back-up they signed for no apparent on-field reason.
Exhibit C (not related to O-Line, but further illustrates what Runnner is saying): Samkon Gado makes the team over Wali Lundy and Darius Walker (and probably would have made it over Chris Taylor, if I had to bet, just based on the way the staff has conducted themselves). With Ron Dayne inactive, Ahman Green gets injured. After handing the ball to Gado a couple times in the first half, the team starts using the backup FB, Cook, as a tailback. Isn't the 3rd string tailback always preferable to a FB playing the position (unless you're the Broncos, I guess)?
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Old 10-22-2007   #46
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Default Re: Can playcalling overcome a manhandled OL?

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What both of you guys fail to realize is that the whole "getting the ball out fast enough" thing was said about DC last year. & since we all agree that Schaub is light years ahead of DC in terms of QBing, I think we can rule out schaub as the problem. He's just got the same affliction as DC had last year........... bad Olineitis.
No, as I've said already a couple times on this thread and argued over the past few months, I think it's the o-line:

Quote:
Interesting observations about the quarterback - holding the ball too long last year was what was blamed for all those sacks. Certainly not the line.
Quote:
The problem with the o-line is as much A. Green's as it is the quarterbacks' or the wide receivers'. We have second-stringers playing at the two most crucial spots on the line. What else could be expected? Until LT and Center are fixed, they will continue to have these problems.
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Old 10-22-2007   #47
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Default Re: Can playcalling overcome a manhandled OL?

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No, as I've said already a couple times on this thread and argued over the past few months, I think it's the o-line:
My bad...
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Old 10-22-2007   #48
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Default Re: Can playcalling overcome a manhandled OL?

I was listening to some of Kubiak's show on 610 today. He didn't seem very enthused about making changes to the o-line. Maybe he's just blowing smoke, but I think he won't be making any chages.

I just don't get it. It isn't like the line could play a lot worse, and they might play better if they make some changes. At worst they could revert back to who they are playing now if the new players do poorly.

They could try Black at tackle; they could try White at center; they could use some of their vaunted swing players and move Black to guard and Weary to center or Pitts to tackle and Black to guard, etc............

Do something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



If none of the roster plays are capable (why are they on the roster? But I digress...), maybe they could give Rick Smith a short list and see if any free agents meet these requirements. He did pretty good with street free agents for the d-line last year.

Tackle:
Better pass blocker than Salaam
Better run blocker than Salaam
Younger and healthier than Salaam
Cheap
Need only play left tackle
Bonus: familiarity with the Texans system

Center:
Better pass blocker than Flanagan
Better run blocker than Flanagan
Younger and healthier than Flanagan
Cheap
Bonus: familiarity with the Texans system

It should be a pretty quick search. Maybe they could find a player to fill at least one of the positions.
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