Pats win suit vs StubHub

[SheTexan]

Maybe this is what the Texans need to do!

Patriots win suit vs. StubHub
Friday, October 19, 2007

BOSTON (AP) The New England Patriots have won a bid to get the names of all the fans who bought or sold -- or tried to buy or sell -- tickets to home games through online ticket reseller StubHub Inc., a move one technology group sees as an invasion of privacy.

In a lawsuit against San Francisco-based StubHub, a subsidiary of eBay Inc., claiming that the Web site encourages fans to break state law and violate team policies, the Patriots said they could seek to revoke season tickets of people who use StubHub.

A lawyer for the Patriots wouldn't say what the team plans to do with the 13,000 names, which StubHub gave it last week after losing its appeal of a Massachusetts state court ruling.

Team rules bar reselling game tickets for a profit. State law, though rarely enforced, restricts ticket markups to $2 above face value plus some service charges.

Patriots tickets have been offered on StubHub at prices many times higher, including two 50-yard line seats for New England's Dec. 16 game against the AFC East rival New York Jets listed Thursday for $1,300.05 each. Their face value is $125.

http://www.theredzone.org/absolutenm...eid=244&zone=1

[StarStruck]

They need to build a reputation for winning first, otherwise the stadium could end up looking like Christmas Eve of the last year that the Oilers were in town.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by SheTexan

Maybe this is what the Texans need to do!

http://www.theredzone.org/absolutenm...eid=244&zone=1

The Patriots, one of the most successful teams in the NFL sues stub hub...the Texans link to them from their home page.

In a lawsuit against San Francisco-based StubHub, a subsidiary of eBay Inc., claiming that the Web site encourages fans to break state law and violate team policies, the Patriots said they could seek to revoke season tickets of people who use StubHub.

A lawyer for the Patriots wouldn't say what the team plans to do with the 13,000 names, which StubHub gave it last week after losing its appeal of a Massachusetts state court ruling.

Team rules bar reselling game tickets for a profit. State law, though rarely enforced, restricts ticket markups to $2 above face value plus some service charges.

[stingray]

Originally Posted by SheTexan

Maybe this is what the Texans need to do!

http://www.theredzone.org/absolutenm...eid=244&zone=1

Why should the Texans do the same? I lose alot of my money on pre-season games. I make up the difference on some of the regular season games that I don't attend. This is the United States not Russia. If I buy a house for $100,000 and somebody buys it for $150,000 a year later, every one will congratulate me. I don't see a problem, it's just supply and demand.

[Specnatz]

Originally Posted by raytex

Why should the Texans do the same? I lose alot of my money on pre-season games. I make up the difference on some of the regular season games that I don't attend. This is the United States not Russia. If I buy a house for $100,000 and somebody buys it for $150,000 a year later, every one will congratulate me. I don't see a problem, it's just supply and demand.

You are talking apples and moon rocks, as far as differance goes. I honestly do not think it is about you selling some of your seats to a few games. This is about brokers who own PSLs and season tickets and selling them. Owning seats for the sole purpose of guaging the fans. Boston is a middle class city for the most part and this makes it so their true fan base cannot go to see the games, ya know the ones who were going to games when they sucked.

This trying to stick it to corporate companies that are in business for the sole purpose of ticket guaging.

[stingray]

Originally Posted by Specnatz

You are talking apples and moon rocks, as far as differance goes. I honestly do not think it is about you selling some of your seats to a few games. This is about brokers who own PSLs and season tickets and selling them. Owning seats for the sole purpose of guaging the fans. Boston is a middle class city for the most part and this makes it so their true fan base cannot go to see the games, ya know the ones who were going to games when they sucked.

This trying to stick it to corporate companies that are in business for the sole purpose of ticket guaging.

But are they noticing the difference? Are they noticing Joe Blow who's selling an $80 ticket for $120 compared to ticket brockers who are selling massive amounts?

[hollywood_texan]

Originally Posted by Specnatz

You are talking apples and moon rocks, as far as differance goes. I honestly do not think it is about you selling some of your seats to a few games. This is about brokers who own PSLs and season tickets and selling them. Owning seats for the sole purpose of guaging the fans. Boston is a middle class city for the most part and this makes it so their true fan base cannot go to see the games, ya know the ones who were going to games when they sucked.

This trying to stick it to corporate companies that are in business for the sole purpose of ticket guaging.

What is stupid about this whole thing is, once the season ticketholder sells his tickets for face value, then that buyer will sell at a higher price through some market that isn't monitored.

Bottom line is, the Patriots are screwing their season ticketholders. Tickets are still going to be sold at the market price, that isn't going to stop. Probably after this works through, tickets will be sold even higher due to this issue! They are going to make it worse!

Also, I don't think the Patriots are differentiating between ticket brokers or season ticketholders selling a few games.

Besides, this whole idea that everyone should be able to go to a football game regardless of income, is ridiculous. It smells of communism to me.

Patriot season ticket holders can't resell their tickets, but Kraft can charge $8 beers, $5 hot dogs, pay players millions of dollars, and season ticketholders can't sell tickets they paid for at a profit?

I understand the issue of ticket brokers and maintaining a home crowd, but this is a America!

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by hollywood_texan

What is stupid about this whole thing is, once the season ticketholder sells his tickets for face value, then that buyer will sell at a higher price through some market that isn't monitored.

Bottom line is, the Patriots are screwing their season ticketholders.

If you read the article, State law forbids re-selling tickets more than $2 dollars over face value plus a service fee. Seems the voters didn't like gougers anymore than the Patriots do.

State law, though rarely enforced, restricts ticket markups to $2 above face value plus some service charges.

[Yankee_In_TX]

Originally Posted by raytex

Why should the Texans do the same? I lose alot of my money on pre-season games. I make up the difference on some of the regular season games that I don't attend. This is the United States not Russia. If I buy a house for $100,000 and somebody buys it for $150,000 a year later, every one will congratulate me. I don't see a problem, it's just supply and demand.

Unless you're under a contract that says you can only sell your house for $100k. Which IS in your PSL/Season ticket contract.

For once Hollywood and I agree on THIS issue. The Patriots will probably make examples without regard for Joe Blow fan who has to miss a few games and John Doe broker who owns 50 PSL's. It would be nice if they said ok - anyone on the list selling more than 10 (arbitrary number) seats is going to get nailed. But that probably won't happen.

[stingray]

Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX

Unless you're under a contract that says you can only sell your house for $100k. Which IS in your PSL/Season ticket contract.

For once Hollywood and I agree on THIS issue. The Patriots will probably make examples without regard for Joe Blow fan who has to miss a few games and John Doe broker who owns 50 PSL's. It would be nice if they said ok - anyone on the list selling more than 10 (arbitrary number) seats is going to get nailed. But that probably won't happen.

So why do the Texans have a contract with Stubhub? This is hypocritical. I Hardly see any tickets sold for face value on stubhub.
This is just another example of another corporation hiding behind their lawyers and covering their ass.

I think another issue related to ticket prices is how ridicoulus the NFl charges the same price for pre-season tickets. These tickets should be sold for about half the price of regular season games. Like I said before, it's supply and demand.

[Yankee_In_TX]

Originally Posted by raytex

So why do the Texans have a contract with Stubhub? This is hypocritical. I Hardly see any tickets sold for face value on stubhub.
This is just another example of another corporation hiding behind their lawyers and covering their ass.

Regardless of the practice, you don't actually have the "right" to sell the tickets as you please because of the contract you're under was the only point I was making (not what is right/wrong or fair/unfair).

[hollywood_texan]

Originally Posted by Vinny

If you read the article, State law forbids re-selling tickets more than $2 dollars over face value plus a service fee. Seems the voters didn't like gougers anymore than the Patriots do.

I know about the law, and it's old and antiqated. It's impractical and has lived out it's useful purpose, whatever was, if it really had a useful purpose. They need to just get rid of it and the Pats need to get with the times.

In the long run, it's probably going to work out against the Pats. Win the battle, but lose the PR war.

It's very expensive to have season tickets, it's very expensive to go to the games, the players make millions, and season ticketholder get their tickets pulled for selling tickets at a profit?

And how is doing that going to stop the resell of Pats tickets? It isn't, and it will probably drive the price up even more in some secondary untrackable market.

Originally Posted by raytex

So why do the Texans have a contract with Stubhub? This is hypocritical. I Hardly see any tickets sold for face value on stubhub.
This is just another example of another corporation hiding behind their lawyers and covering their ass.

I think another issue related to ticket prices is how ridicoulus the NFl charges the same price for pre-season tickets. These tickets should be sold for about half the price of regular season games. Like I said before, it's supply and demand.

It's only the Pats doing this. The Texans encourage the resell of tickets on their own website saying something like, "sell your tickets on stubhub to get a return on your Texans investment". It's something like that.

[stingray]

Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX

Regardless of the practice, you don't actually have the "right" to sell the tickets as you please because of the contract you're under was the only point I was making (not what is right/wrong or fair/unfair).

I know that you are just stating the "facts", I'm trying to use common sense and not sound like a "lawyer". If the Texans really wanted to forbid the selling of tickets over face value than they wouldn't have an affiliation with stubhub. I gurantee you that they don't care.

[Joe Texan]

I hope stub hub burns to the ground

[hollywood_texan]

Originally Posted by Joe Texan

I hope stub hub burns to the ground

It's on the Internet.

I don't think that is possible.

But, we get your point.

See you in Oakland.

[Specnatz]

Originally Posted by hollywood_texan

I know about the law, and it's old and antiqated. It's impractical and has lived out it's useful purpose, whatever was, if it really had a useful purpose. They need to just get rid of it and the Pats need to get with the times.

In the long run, it's probably going to work out against the Pats. Win the battle, but lose the PR war.

It's very expensive to have season tickets, it's very expensive to go to the games, the players make millions, and season ticketholder get their tickets pulled for selling tickets at a profit?

And how is doing that going to stop the resell of Pats tickets? It isn't, and it will probably drive the price up even more in some secondary untrackable market.



It's only the Pats doing this. The Texans encourage the resell of tickets on their own website saying something like, "sell your tickets on stubhub to get a return on your Texans investment". It's something like that.

Or doing it as a business and not caring about the fans. If the media would actually talk about this then the PR battle would be against this type of thing.

[SheTexan]

Personally, I wish ALL ticket brokers would go BROKE!! These are tickets to an entertainment event, not the purchase of a home. I would be able to go to more out of town games if the cost of the ticket wasn't so much. I would have LOVED to take my granddaughters to see Hanna Montana, BUT, no way in hell could I afford the jacked up price of the tickets from the brokers, nor would I pay that amount even if I could afford it.

I also think it's sad the TEXANS acknowledge StubHub!! If more NFL franchises would do as the Pats have done, more middle class, lower income fans would be able to attend games. Unfortunately, the NFL is a money making machine FIRST and foremost!! I wonder how much of a kickback the TEXANS, and other franchises, get from StubHub!!

I applaud the Patriots for sticking to their policy!! I just wish more NFL franchises had the guts to do the same.

[hollywood_texan]

Originally Posted by SheTexan

Personally, I wish ALL ticket brokers would go BROKE!! These are tickets to an entertainment event, not the purchase of a home. I would be able to go to more out of town games if the cost of the ticket wasn't so much. I would have LOVED to take my granddaughters to see Hanna Montana, BUT, no way in hell could I afford the jacked up price of the tickets from the brokers, nor would I pay that amount even if I could afford it.

I also think it's sad the TEXANS acknowledge StubHub!! If more NFL franchises would do as the Pats have done, more middle class, lower income fans would be able to attend games. Unfortunately, the NFL is a money making machine FIRST and foremost!! I wonder how much of a kickback the TEXANS, and other franchises, get from StubHub!!

I applaud the Patriots for sticking to their policy!! I just wish more NFL franchises had the guts to do the same.

Regardless of ticket brokers, the price is what it is and value has been established by a secondary market. Since that value is there, the ticket brokers exist because of the business profit available. Taking away ticket brokers isn't going to change the secondary market, except to probably make things more expensive.

Also, no one is guaranteed anything in life, especially a ticket to an NFL game or to see Hannah Montana. There are so many other things in life to pursue or worry about than that.

Just get over it, this is how a free market and society works.

[Specnatz]

Originally Posted by hollywood_texan

Regardless of ticket brokers, the price is what it is and value has been established by a secondary market. Since that value is there, the ticket brokers exist because of the business profit available. Taking away ticket brokers isn't going to change the secondary market, except to probably make things more expensive.
Also, no one is guaranteed anything in life, especially a ticket to an NFL game or to see Hannah Montana. There are so many other things in life to pursue or worry about than that.

Just get over it, this is how a free market and society works.

If you eliminate ticket brokers how does the price of tickets go up? If they can only charge a certain amount above original ticket prices, then the price would come down.

You say nothing is guaranteed in life, that also applies to ticket brokers. that are not guaranteed a right to sell tickets at inflated prices. You are right there is so many things more to worry about in the grand scheme of life, so then why is it that you have a problem with people fighting ticket brokers? You seem to take up there side of the fight versus the side of fans or people who wish that brokers did not exsist.

I just hate the fact they own PSLs and or season tickets for the sole purpose of selling those seats. they should be forced to stand in line and be limited to the number of tickets they can get. Just like a concert you can only by 8 tickets at a time. That would not eliminate brokers but it sure would but a huge crimp in how they go about doing business.

[hollywood_texan]

Originally Posted by Specnatz

If you eliminate ticket brokers how does the price of tickets go up? If they can only charge a certain amount above original ticket prices, then the price would come down.

You say nothing is guaranteed in life, that also applies to ticket brokers. that are not guaranteed a right to sell tickets at inflated prices. You are right there is so many things more to worry about in the grand scheme of life, so then why is it that you have a problem with people fighting ticket brokers? You seem to take up there side of the fight versus the side of fans or people who wish that brokers did not exsist.

I just hate the fact they own PSLs and or season tickets for the sole purpose of selling those seats. they should be forced to stand in line and be limited to the number of tickets they can get. Just like a concert you can only by 8 tickets at a time. That would not eliminate brokers but it sure would but a huge crimp in how they go about doing business.

There is a supply side and a demand side.

Getting rid of ticket brokers doesn't change the demand side. Theoritcally, you are lowering the supply by getting rid of ticket brokers.

Getting rid of ticket brokers means less supply, with demand staying the same, you will have higher prices.

Actually, you guys want more brokers or for stadiums to have a higher seating capacity. The more people selling tickets would mean lower prices. The fewer people selling tickets in the secondary market, means higher prices.

Or maybe supply is too high, meaning too many people want to go to football games? You could impact the pricing side from the demand side as well.

We live in a free society (for lack of a better term) that is predicated capitalism.

Like I said, get over it is my best advice. This is how we live in this country and what makes it so great. Opporunity is what is important, not an entitlement. Human civilization is based on scarce resources and how we deal with that in a capitalist society is the best way to go. It isn't perfect, but neither are human beings (we are emotional and illogical most of the time, if not all of the time).

Personally, I don't like the ticket broker concept either in the NFL. But, that is how life works in our society, you gotta take the minuses with pluses.