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Old 10-17-2007   #21
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
What's wrong with Babin? I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Who says Babin would be inactive for us? That sounds like it would be a bad move by our staff if he were on the roster, to make him inactive for games. Did Babin not help the team last year? If your answer is yes he did, what is the difference in last year and this year? If your answer is no he did not, what is your logic behind this?
Babin is a 3-4 Rush OLB, he can play in a 4-3 but his game in either system leaves alot to be desired. I think that there is nothing Babin could have done in the preseason to move ahead of Weaver or Williams (the starting DEs), nor can he play both d-line spots like Kalu, and before his injury Orr was getting more consistent pressure then Babin. So therefore while Babin isn't a horrible player I don't think he would have seen much of the field this year, and the FO saw this and made the move to trade Babin ofr Boulware. A player they thought would see more of the field then Babin.

Babin was able to help the team last year cause the team was lacking in talent at certain spots and quite frankly it still is.

While Boulware's play on D hasn't been much, his splay on the coverage units has been outstanding.
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Old 10-17-2007   #22
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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All the while our pass rush struggles...

I don't think it was a bad move, but I do think we traded our best pass rusher...

Our pass rush has struggled with or without Babin. Thats not a fair comparison
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Old 10-17-2007   #23
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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Our pass rush has struggled with or without Babin. Thats not a fair comparison
Who was comparing anything ?

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Old 10-17-2007   #24
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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All the while our pass rush struggles...

I don't think it was a bad move, but I do think we traded our best pass rusher...
We have more sacks through 6 games this year then we had through 6 games last year, and that was with the mighty Jason Babin.
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Old 10-17-2007   #25
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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Babin is a 3-4 Rush OLB, he can play in a 4-3 but his game in either system leaves alot to be desired.
I don't think Babin is a 3-4 player at all. He was far more consistant and successful when we played 4-3 than the 3-4. His OLB coverage skills were horrible and he never played the position very well overall. I always thought he was a 4-3 DE.
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Old 10-17-2007   #26
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

We needed help at the safety spot and had plenty of guys who can "not" pressure the QB from the DL. It's not a trade I particularly regret.

Now drafting Jason Babin in the first place I wish we could get a "do over" on.

This whole thing just highlights how there is almost never a silver lining to drafting poorly. You can't trade your bust for somebody elses and end up with a quality starter very often. Once in a blue moon you see that happen.

I guess in the long run the Babin pick wouldn't have been any better if we'd stayed put and drafted at our original spots instead of trading them away to the Titans. With Casserly running the show we'd just have 3-4 busts to cope with instead of one.
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Old 10-17-2007   #27
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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We have more sacks through 6 games this year then we had through 6 games last year, and that was with the mighty Jason Babin.
What does that have to do with him being our best pass rusher ?

I think Jason Babin was the best edge rusher we had...

Sue me...
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Old 10-17-2007   #28
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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What does that have to do with him being our best pass rusher ?

I think Jason Babin was the best edge rusher we had...

Sue me...
If he was the best edge rusher we had, shouldn't we have had less sacks without the best edge rusher not more?
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Old 10-17-2007   #29
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
We needed help at the safety spot and had plenty of guys who can "not" pressure the QB from the DL. It's not a trade I particularly regret.

Now drafting Jason Babin in the first place I wish we could get a "do over" on.

This whole thing just highlights how there is almost never a silver lining to drafting poorly. You can't trade your bust for somebody elses and end up with a quality starter very often. Once in a blue moon you see that happen.

I guess in the long run the Babin pick wouldn't have been any better if we'd stayed put and drafted at our original spots instead of trading them away to the Titans. With Casserly running the show we'd just have 3-4 busts to cope with instead of one.
As much as I agree with you on the Babin pick, I'd like to disagree with the take on Casserly.

Really, if you want to measure his performance, I think it would be more fair if you take the 4-5 worst teams at the end of 01, follow them thru the years to 06, and see which team still has more players in the NFL, especially quality players.

(The fact that some players don't play well for certain team but play better with another may have different implications, from coaching, system, the other parts on the team, etc.)
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Old 10-17-2007   #30
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

If Babin was our best pass rusher and he hasn't done squat for the Seahawks, what does that say about our front seven?

I haven't looked up Babin's stats, nor have I looked at him play with the Seahawks.

I did watch last Sunday Night's game, and I don't recall hearing about him or seeing him one time.

It appears this trade was a push. It's really of no concern to me in particular.

My concern and the main general problem the Texans have is that they still have the same problems they had before Kubiak started, with the exception of the QB position.

The team is better, but it's just a different shade of grey.

It seems very clear to me that the Texans need to just load up the offense because Schaub looks like the guy that can deliver. RB and offensive line should be top priority in the draft to find impact starters. Maybe another stud WR?

Texans want to get better faster, get Schaub the tools and score a lot points. Forget the defense at the moment because it's like throwing money down a hole...
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Old 10-17-2007   #31
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
If he was the best edge rusher we had, shouldn't we have had less sacks without the best edge rusher not more?
Because Amobi Okoye hasn't had any impact this year, right?
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Old 10-17-2007   #32
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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WE TRADED AMOBI?!?!?!

shit....
That's what I was thinking when he said "We traded our best pass rusher."

If Babin was our best pass rusher, he should have seen the field more, he couldn't start over Weaver or Williams.

I understand he came in and got sacks, but you have to understand... a lot of pass rushers get sacks if that is their only use. Guys like Orr, guys like Babin, these guys come in on passing situations, very fresh and ready to make a play. Where a Mario Williams starts nearly every drive, and can only commit so much energy for that drive or play(which is a negative to him). Not only that Mario has to worry about run plays on first and 10, and in those run/pass situations, he can't just come in there on 3rd and 12 with his stamina up and pin his ears back and go for the QB.

I'm not buying this Babin was our best pass rusher, that means our defensive line just flat out sucks if that is the case. And it doesn't, just some bad games and just inconsistent is the problem.
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Old 10-17-2007   #33
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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If he was the best edge rusher we had, shouldn't we have had less sacks without the best edge rusher not more?
No.

That really has no correlation what so ever.
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Old 10-17-2007   #34
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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I'm not buying this Babin was our best pass rusher, that means our defensive line just flat out sucks if that is the case.
If Babin wasn't our best pass rusher, who the hell was better ?


Mario ? Weaver ? Cochran ? Orr ?
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Old 10-17-2007   #35
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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No.

That really has no correlation what so ever.
Huh? Isn't the job of your best edge rusher to get to the QB?

And if so shouldn't your sack numbers be higher when he is on the field?

There is a direct correlation between the play of your "best" edge rusher and the number of sacks you record. To say other wise makes no sense at all. It's like saying the best arm on your team is not your QB.
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Old 10-17-2007   #36
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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uh...it correlates pretty well in my mind.

our "best" pass rusher is out and yet we're still doing better than last year. so either he wasn't the best, or he made little impact to begin with...
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Huh? Isn't the job of your best edge rusher to get to the QB?

And if so shouldn't your sack numbers be higher when he is on the field?

There is a direct correlation between the play of your "best" edge rusher and the number of sacks you record. To say other wise makes no sense at all. It's like saying the best arm on your team is not your QB.

Why are you assuming his sack numbers wouldn't have increased with the team this year?

If he led in sacks last year, why wouldn't he have been able to do it this year ?

Maybe the D-line as a whole is performing better ? Maybe the addition of Amobi means that we'll have a better pass rush overall ?

Maybe players got better...

There are a million and one reasons why Babins sack numbers of last year don't correlate with our sack numbers this year...

For all you guys know, our sack numbers might be higher if he were here...I don't know if they would or wouldn't, but I do know that he was our best edge rusher...

And maybe I should say this again, but that doesn't mean it was a bad trade..

I just think we traded away one of the guys who showed he could get to the QB more than most of the others on the D-line...And he was playing really well in camp and pre-season...
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Old 10-17-2007   #37
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

It still doesn't correlate.

The only thing that does correlate is that the D-line as a whole has done better so it makes no sense to think Babin individually would have done worse...

If everyone else on the D-line is playing better and we've accumulated more sacks as a whole, why wouldn't Babin have gotten better too? I think the pre-season he was having was trending towards him being a productive player this year...
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Old 10-17-2007   #38
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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pfft...he was the best sack number guy because he was a situational player. best edge rusher is a debate that i don't want to get into, but here it goes...he got 4, 4, and 5 sacks. his best year sack numbers-wise was when they told him to go in on obvious pass downs, pin your ears back and get to the quarterback. one job. mario had 4.5 with all that he's had to deal with. my pick is mario, but i'm sure you've got a retort so i'll let you jump in with whatever you've got
Exactly, its easier to get sacks when you ar going in on 3rd and 12 and you know its going to be a pass play. He didn't have to deal with 1st and 10, because a DE can't just go all out on the QB, he may fly right past the RB and give him a gap. Even as a situational guy he had 4 sacks, Mark Anderson was Da Bears situational pass rusher last year and he had 12. Yet Mario had 10 more hurries than he did.
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Old 10-17-2007   #39
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

Babin was our best passer rusher per the numbers last year; fact.

We sucked at rushing the passer last year; fact.

Everything else is pure speculation.
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Old 10-17-2007   #40
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Default Re: Thought on the Boulware-Babin trade 6 weeks later?

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by no means do i believe anyone is so blind to see that mario williams is by far a more valuable player and a better pass rusher than jason babin.
Could care less about the stats...

Babin was our best pass rusher....
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