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Old 10-16-2007   #61
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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You've just crushed my dream of opening the El Ranchero China House buffet and exotic boot emporium. My signature dish was going to be sweet and sour Fajitas with Egg Drop Refried Beans on the side. You sure know how to steal a man's dreams don't you.
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Old 10-16-2007   #62
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
WOW! TC ..... I sense a surprising amount of frustration from you. Remember, back in the offseason (when everyone was calling Rick Smith a genius with his acquisitions) I was commenting that all Rick Smith was doing was signing FA's that nobody else wanted. That's what he should be doing in his sleep. Genius would have been signing one of the high profile FA's when our cap is strapped or making a blockbuster deal. Everything else is just a normal day at the office. I also said that signing below average FA's wasn't going to improve this team ..... just give us more depth of below average talent. I also harped frequently that they needed to be addressing the oline and that Jordon Black WAS NOT a solution. Teams just do not allow quality LT's to walk away like the Chiefs did.

I still believe the team is better overall than last year but we, as fans, need to manage our expectations of this team. We just don't have the talent to be REAL playoff contenders yet.
I'm not particularly frustrated, rather I'm just talking about stuff the way I see it. I recognize that good players don't grow on trees and are particularly hard to acquire when you are in salary cap hades.

I do have some structural concerns with the way our offensive coaching staff is put together, and don't particularly believe in the defensive coaching staff.

Kubiak has a style and philosophy, and Sherman have a style and philosophy and I never really saw how those meshed together.

The QB, tight ends, and receivers seem to have it going on. Most of those elements are taught the Denver way. They have a specific thing they want to do, they run the routes the precise way, and it gets done.

The running back situation has been the lipstick on a pig. They say that the run game is important, but I don't have faith that they can fix it because it has never really been good since Kubiak has come on board. There's been some games here and there where it has been good, but never at the same time as the passing game. The Sherman/Kubiak stuff seems to be either/or.

The Smith defensive philosophy is something that is baffling to me. When he came in, we were told he was going to run an aggressive 4-3. He had never had a track record of running a defense by himself, so you could not see what a Smith type of defense was suppose to look like. And I think the answer is so far inconsistent.

So, yeah, what we see now on the offensive side of the ball is so much better than it was in the past. The run game aspect of it is a problem.

What we see on the defensive side of the ball doesn't give me much comfort that when some more talent comes into place, it will all be good.
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Old 10-16-2007   #63
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

We just missed on Michael Bennett again. He went to the Bucs for a 2nd day draft pick.
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Old 10-16-2007   #64
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
We just missed on Michael Bennett again. He went to the Bucs for a 2nd day draft pick.
Tampa is desperate for a running back it is not like they or anyone else really went after this guy in the last 3 years. I am not sure we missed on much.
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Old 10-16-2007   #65
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
Tampa is desperate for a running back it is not like they or anyone else really went after this guy in the last 3 years. I am not sure we missed on much.
The Texans took a run at him before. There were 20+ pages about it in this thread.

He's not a HOF'er, but he's better than the peanut gallery we have backing up Ahman Green right now.
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Old 10-16-2007   #66
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Kubiak has a style and philosophy, and Sherman have a style and philosophy and I never really saw how those meshed together.
Why was Kubiak hired ? Because he was a successful OC at Denver, or because he's from Houston and/or an Aggie ? If its because he was a success in Denver, why hire someone besides him to run the offense who uses techinques and schemes which are different than Kubiaks.
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Old 10-16-2007   #67
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Funny...someone emailed me today and asked me what I thought of the team at this juncture and I made an analogy of combining a Chinese buffet with a Mexican restaurant as I mentioned the Sherman man blocking scheme with Kubiak's zone blocking scheme. Two very popular kinds of food but an awful combination.
I disagree. At lunch time at work, my girl will grab some Ninfa's and I will get some Orange Chicken and rice. We then proceed to mix and grub. It's all good.

Anyways, I agree with your original statement, but not your analogy.

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Old 10-16-2007   #68
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Anyways, I agree with your original statement, but not your analogy.

Asians don't tend to eat cheese...perhaps it's a good thing for you to combine cheese and fish or cheese and stir fry...but it's really not appetizing to me. Mexican and Italian works...but not Asian food and cheese based cuisine.
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Old 10-16-2007   #69
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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I am probably wrong on this, but. There are two schools of thought on ZBS. There is the old school Jimmy Johnson Dallas Cowboy version, the Power Zone. In it you use big guys that block and area, it has been around a long time. (BTW TC knows this but many do not, ZBS only refers to the run blocking). The big guys are also usually good pass blockers due to there size. This is the type blocking system Sherman employs.

Along comes Alex Gibbs and he makes an adjustment to the run game. Go smaller quicker guys, use misdirection, and chop blocking to create backside lanes. The problem with the smaller linemen is they are not as good at pass blocking in the traditional way. Their offense needs play action and role outs to keep the QB alive. Denver is not a good come from behind team, and that is not only because of the lose of Elway.

Kubiak was trained to get an early lead by using play action and role outs to get that 1st half lead, and then going into run the ball to shorten the game mode. The Denver air helps with the wearing down of opponents, BTW Atlanta is the second highest elevation in the league at 1050. The smaller, adjusted to the elevation guys are able to establish the 2nd half running game, and wear the other team out.

IMO you can run both types of running games with the correct guys. Flanagan is not able to run black anymore, and the OC does not want to tell his former college player that. When McKinney was in there (and this kills me to admit) the running game looked good. Without him... Also when did the run game start to click last year? When McKinney took over the center position. He along with Weary and Pitts are an athletic middle with size and strength, that can run both types of ZBS systems.
There's the post of the month. Nice job.

I think it's simply Kubes is not micro managing. We haven't run a true Denver ZBS in awhile. Sherman's responsiblity is the offense and ultimaltly the offensive line. I think they haven't had enough hoses to put sherman's head on the chopping block. Will Say he mised bad on Flanagan's capablities at this age. I disagree with your & vinniy' assement of the og's. I think they are plodders and do a very poor job of blocking on the run. Pitts is bear pulling around and coming on the trap block on the right side. That play also hides Winston's weaknesses. He can play angles on guys and crash in and seal the trash coming from the middle. However, they have all been train wrecks tring to execute bolcks in the open feild. And in particularly on the screen plays.
After watching the whiffs for a third of the season you gotta figgure they can NOT do it. No they aren't athletic enough. One of the little dramas that will take place this off season is which way Kubes takes his offenive line for '08. It begins this Sunday.

And RB Crowd, package all of the '08 picks move up and go get McFaddin. I'll tell you what you will get if you iggnore the o-line one more year. Another patch job and more sputtering and stumbling. A far as spending the '08 draft picks on Turner the burner...deadline is gone. You can get him now for the hundered dollar waiver price.
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Old 10-16-2007   #70
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Most people who know what they are talking about will tell you that Pitts and Weary have pretty darn good feet.
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Old 10-16-2007   #71
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Most people who know what they are talking about will tell you that Pitts and Weary have pretty darn good feet.
The eye in the sky do not lie. Not in the open feild tring to execute blocks. And that there thingy is 25 % of the GB power running game. That is what amen was brought in to do. And our athletic lineman can not do it.
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Old 10-16-2007   #72
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Are there running backs in FA that are better than Ahman? No, probably not.

Are there running backs on the market better than Dayne and Gado? Every day and twice on Sunday.

Yes, yes, and double yes. This is what I've been trying to say. We need a 2nd string RB better than Gado/Dayne and we need him NOW if we're to have any kind of season at all.

Green is going to go down again. That's why we should have traded today for Somebody Somebody. Tatum Bell, fumble-prone as he may be, is light years ahead of Dayne and Gado. And didn't he play is a system something like ours?
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Old 10-16-2007   #73
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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The eye in the sky do not lie. Not in the open feild tring to execute blocks. And that there thingy is 25 % of the GB power running game.
The open field or the second level ?

If you're asking your linemen to consistently make blocks in the "open field" that there thingy is called a schematic flaw...
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Old 10-16-2007   #74
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

I don't think there's a power struggle here.
Unless both Sherman and Kubiak are too polite that they mask something much deeper.
Otherwise, I think they work just fine together.

The result is not there yet. We are not functioning as a cohesive unit in run blocking maybe half of the time, or a third of the time.
But there were other factors that hinder the running game, IMO.

TEs, FBs at times did not do as well they should.
The RBs were hesitant to make the optional cut back when available.
The QB and the RBs are not in tune on the handoff (this has been better).
The coaches' insistence to run right into the meat of the D (at times).
On top of the players getting use to different blocking schemes.

A little here, a little there.
I believe they will get better at it with more reps.
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Old 10-17-2007   #75
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I'm not particularly frustrated, rather I'm just talking about stuff the way I see it. I recognize that good players don't grow on trees and are particularly hard to acquire when you are in salary cap hades.

I do have some structural concerns with the way our offensive coaching staff is put together, and don't particularly believe in the defensive coaching staff.

Kubiak has a style and philosophy, and Sherman have a style and philosophy and I never really saw how those meshed together.

The QB, tight ends, and receivers seem to have it going on. Most of those elements are taught the Denver way. They have a specific thing they want to do, they run the routes the precise way, and it gets done.

The running back situation has been the lipstick on a pig. They say that the run game is important, but I don't have faith that they can fix it because it has never really been good since Kubiak has come on board. There's been some games here and there where it has been good, but never at the same time as the passing game. The Sherman/Kubiak stuff seems to be either/or.

The Smith defensive philosophy is something that is baffling to me. When he came in, we were told he was going to run an aggressive 4-3. He had never had a track record of running a defense by himself, so you could not see what a Smith type of defense was suppose to look like. And I think the answer is so far inconsistent.

So, yeah, what we see now on the offensive side of the ball is so much better than it was in the past. The run game aspect of it is a problem.

What we see on the defensive side of the ball doesn't give me much comfort that when some more talent comes into place, it will all be good.

Obviously, you are closer to the team than I am and it appears we have multiple problems as follows:

1) Lack of talent in the oline, RB, secondary, and OLB. Surely, this is not also the case for the dline, is it?

2) Coaching that is inconsistent at best. Too me, we are much too passive on both sides of the ball. Our game plans on both sides of the ball appear to be "herky-jerky" with no identity or consistency. I am becoming more and more convinced that Sherman and Richard Smith need to go. Jury is still way out on Kubes, too. Kubes needs to reel in his coaches and establish his philosophies and, if the others don't jump on board, they need to go over board. Kubes is supposed to be an offensive genius and we've seen nothing close to that at all.

3) Rick Smith, the GM. I guess the jury is still out on him, too. But, I guess we should give him another year. Kinda hard to judge him with the inconsistent coaching we have.
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Old 10-17-2007   #76
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Wonder what Marion Barber would be worth to the Texans ? No doubt he's worth a third-rounder, but would that bring him ? Since we don't have a second, we'd have to probably bundle the third with another pick, a second day pick.
Of course this is idle speculation on my part, because I doubt the Cowboys would consider parting with him for anything less than a deal with a fat premium. He was really impressive Sunday though. While the rest of his team was getting their collective butts kicked, he was the kickor. Guy runs hard, and is only 24.
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Old 10-17-2007   #77
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Wonder what Marion Barber would be worth to the Texans ? No doubt he's worth a third-rounder, but would that bring him ? Since we don't have a second, we'd have to probably bundle the third with another pick, a second day pick.
Of course this is idle speculation on my part, because I doubt the Cowboys would consider parting with him for anything less than a deal with a fat premium. He was really impressive Sunday though. While the rest of his team was getting their collective butts kicked, he was the kickor. Guy runs hard, and is only 24.
no way the cowboys would trade their best back in a year where they have one of the best shots of any NFC team of making the playoffs....This is a madden video game trade.
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Old 10-17-2007   #78
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I'm not particularly frustrated, rather I'm just talking about stuff the way I see it. I recognize that good players don't grow on trees and are particularly hard to acquire when you are in salary cap hades.

I do have some structural concerns with the way our offensive coaching staff is put together, and don't particularly believe in the defensive coaching staff.

Kubiak has a style and philosophy, and Sherman have a style and philosophy and I never really saw how those meshed together.

The QB, tight ends, and receivers seem to have it going on. Most of those elements are taught the Denver way. They have a specific thing they want to do, they run the routes the precise way, and it gets done.

The running back situation has been the lipstick on a pig. They say that the run game is important, but I don't have faith that they can fix it because it has never really been good since Kubiak has come on board. There's been some games here and there where it has been good, but never at the same time as the passing game. The Sherman/Kubiak stuff seems to be either/or.

The Smith defensive philosophy is something that is baffling to me. When he came in, we were told he was going to run an aggressive 4-3. He had never had a track record of running a defense by himself, so you could not see what a Smith type of defense was suppose to look like. And I think the answer is so far inconsistent.

So, yeah, what we see now on the offensive side of the ball is so much better than it was in the past. The run game aspect of it is a problem.

What we see on the defensive side of the ball doesn't give me much comfort that when some more talent comes into place, it will all be good.

Post of the month far as i am concerned.

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Old 10-17-2007   #79
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Kubiak has a style and philosophy, and Sherman have a style and philosophy and I never really saw how those meshed together.
Without the cut blocks, which the Texans coaches aren't teaching, the Bronco style isn't going to fly here. Instead of the cut block, the Texans try to keep the backside DE honest by running a WR around on a reverse fake. That's not working.

I don't think the Texans would have a chance at a running game without Sherman's power running plays. And the backs they have are more suited to a power style. Until the Texans find the right combination of RBs and linemen to run the Bronco scheme, they should just stick with Sherman's scheme.

I agree that Richard (don't call me Rick) Smith's defensive philosophy is indecipherable. He's from the Glanville coaching tree (more like a twig), so one would think that he's a devotee of the blitz. But, he's rarely drawn up a blitz that catches the opposition off guard. Maybe he doesn't have the talent to fully utilize his scheme (whatever that is), but a good coach takes what he has and makes it work.
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Old 10-17-2007   #80
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

For them as is interested, here's the NFL.COM comparison of Tatum Bell (who we could have had for a song yesterday) and our own top-of-the-line RB, Ahman Green. It's pretty interesting.

This is the link to Tatum Bell on NFL.COM.

http://www.nfl.com/players/tatumbell...e?id=BEL598152

His lowest APC for the last 4 years is 4.1 yds. In 2006 he was the Broncos main RB with over a thousand and an avg of 4.4 or something. Was he hurt or something thereafter?

In any case, if he's "garbage," as Vinny said on the other board, then everybody we got except Green is what? Mulch?

Here are Green's stats if you want to compare.

http://www.nfl.com/players/ahmangree...e?id=GRE035797
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