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Old 10-15-2007   #21
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Meh, I think Kubs does look for tackles, centers, and guards in his front line guys, but he looks for swing players as back ups. Charles Spencer was drafted to be our LT and that's where he's played. Eric Winston was drafted to be our RT, and although he worked at both tackle positions (mainly RT) in practice last year when he was a back up he is exclusively our RT now. Mike Flanagan and Steve McKinney, both centers although McKinney could play guard if we were in a pinch. Pitts, only guard, same with Weary. It makes sense, we can't afford to bring 10 exclusive 1 position O-Linemen into every game when we only have what, 45 spots on gameday? You bring in 5 guys who can start at their respective positions, and 2 or 3 who are "swing guys" who can fill in at different positions depending on who goes down.
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Old 10-15-2007   #22
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busa_Bill View Post
Somewhere between 2-0, and getting your heart ripped out by the champs.
You could see the decline starting in that game. The ball stopped bouncing our way, and the players heads began drifting to another place.
Missed opportunities, miscues, penalties; it all started in game 3 and has continued since. Call me Cptn. Obvious, but it is what it is.
Our team has to find its heart again.

Go Texans
There was that little thing about half our team getting injured in that game as well. This team is having to reach for production in way to many places. Green was doing exactly what the team needed before he got hurt, combine that with the way AJ was tearing apart the DBs and it was a smooth running machine.
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Old 10-15-2007   #23
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
So it was Kubiak's plan to have a hybrid offense the whole way? It had nothing to do with the horrible running game the Texans had the first few games of his tenure? As I remember it, he brought in Vonta Leach so that he could use an extra blocker at fullback, thus bringing in the need for a power scheme to add to the ZBS that was somewhat implemented.
Kubiak hand picked Charles Spencer and he flies in the face of your position that he is forced into using larger players instead of smaller more traditional zone blocking guys...Spencer is a really massive lineman who played a bunch of Guard in College. Explain that one to me if you would.
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Old 10-15-2007   #24
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
So it was Kubiak's plan to have a hybrid offense the whole way? It had nothing to do with the horrible running game the Texans had the first few games of his tenure? As I remember it, he brought in Vonta Leach so that he could use an extra blocker at fullback, thus bringing in the need for a power scheme to add to the ZBS that was somewhat implemented.
Here's the only relevant thing I've found so far:

Quote:
Texans tackle Eric Winston
(on how the zone blocking scheme is going) “It's doing well. I don’t think we are fully over there. I like to think of our offense as a hybrid right now. We are doing a lot of different things. You know, a lot of teams are either power teams or zone teams and I think we got enough skill on this offensive line and we got the right combination of guys where I think we are getting to be a hybrid of both. I think that is going to pose a lot of problems for defenses and it’s exciting for us playing for it.”

(on it this scheme not being one or another) That’s what I’m saying. We can do both. Usually for power teams you have big, strong guys and for zone teams you have smaller, quicker guys. So, with guys like Chester Pitts and Ephraim (Salaam) that have been in the zone blocking scheme before; in college we did both. We got a lot of guys that can do a lot. Fred Weary is a real strong guy but at the same time he can move. It takes those kind of guys to be able to do both. I think we are fortunate to have those kind of guys to where we can do both.”

(on the second year in the system being more comfortable) “Absolutely. I mean, you’re more comfortable with the terminology, what the coaches are expecting, what they’re looking for, what they want to see. That just makes everyone a little bit better. You know what they want and you know what you need to go out there and do to get better and be a starter on this team. So, it’s just a matter of carrying it forward day by day.”
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Old 10-15-2007   #25
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Kubiak hand picked Charles Spencer and he flies in the face of your position that he is forced into using larger players instead of smaller more traditional zone blocking guys...Spencer is a really massive lineman who played a bunch of Guard in College. Explain that one to me if you would.
We haven't used Spencer in over a year, but to answer your question, Spencer was drafted because of his footwork. He may be as big as your typical guard, but his footwork makes him a much lighter player out on the field.
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Old 10-15-2007   #26
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Didn't SD turn down a first rounder from Titans for Turner? Guys like him are not available for any price...there are so few "quality" backs in the NFL right now, it's silly. No team is dumb enough to do a Matt Schaub-like trade with their running back.

Face it: Our running back is not coming until free agency or the draft. And I'd bet on the draft.

Discussion over.

Sit here and gag with the rest of us for the remainder of the season, please.
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Last edited by GP; 10-15-2007 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 10-15-2007   #27
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
Here's the only relevant thing I've found so far:
That's weak MT. You took me on and made a point blank statement about how "we run the ZBS" and that we were "forced" to run a power scheme since these linemen weren't his choice...well, I backed up my position with the fact that he drafted Charles Spencer and he is exactly the kind of lineman you said he wasn't looking for. You cut n paste a quote that backs my argument up more than yours....you can do better than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
We run the ZBS. However, because of the personnel we have, or lack thereof, we have to run some sort of power scheme. Not because we want a hybrid offense, but because the team just isn't ready to be fully committed to the ZBS yet. Kubiak still needs to go out and find linemen, since he is for the most part, playing with linemen he inherited, not guys he hand picked.
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Old 10-15-2007   #28
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Our running back is coming out of nowhere. Just like Jacoby came out obscurity, so will our running back of the future.
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Old 10-15-2007   #29
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
That's weak MT. You took me on and made a point blank statement about how "we run the ZBS" and that we were "forced" to run a power scheme since these linemen weren't his choice...well, I backed up my position with the fact that he drafted Charles Spencer and he is exactly the kind of lineman you said he wasn't looking for. You cut n paste a quote that backs my argument up more than yours....you can do better than that.
Spencer has the footwork of the prototypical ZBS lineman. Look for my later post.
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Old 10-15-2007   #30
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
We haven't used Spencer in over a year, but to answer your question, Spencer was drafted because of his footwork. He may be as big as your typical guard, but his footwork makes him a much lighter player out on the field.
lol, you are gonna have to do better than that...I give you a D+ for trying to spin your way out of the argument all the same.
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Old 10-15-2007   #31
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

What a change from the beginning of the season. We have QB RB WR DE and CB issues. Whats next PR or KR problems? To many we feel as is this is BS. I hope this team doesn't KO our winning season hopes. By the way I hate the IRS.



This is a mental game as well. If you don't believe in yourself you will always fail .
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Old 10-15-2007   #32
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
Meh, I think Kubs does look for tackles, centers, and guards in his front line guys, but he looks for swing players as back ups. Charles Spencer was drafted to be our LT and that's where he's played.
Charles Spencer played a game and half and he isn't playing this year as we all know. The Texans starting left tackle for the past year and a half is a swing tackle. The person they brought in to challenge for the job this year was valued because he could play guard and tackle. Yes roster spots are limited and mutli-role players are good to have as back-ups, but many teams have real left tackles playing left tackle.

It is a rare player that is elite or even above average at multiple positions. It is even harder for a player on a team that has inferior talent at other positions.
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Old 10-15-2007   #33
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
fully agreed...lets give up our first round pick next year so we can get to 9-7.
Especially since M Turner is going to be plying his wares on the FA market.
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Old 10-15-2007   #34
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bomb View Post
It's not just the running back........our line isn't pushing ANYBODY around.
This is the perfect post to make a certain point, which I think is being overlooked. Instead of "It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID" . .

. . it should be "KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID".

I didn't see this "Kubiak/Sherman hybrid scheme" being questioned in the first two games when the offensive line was winning the battle upfront.

Why make it complicated now?

I know this is a very, very unpopular view, but instead of questioning the scheme, which again, worked quite well apparently the first two games, why not recognize how much the loss of McKinney impacted the running game? Combine that loss with the loss of AJ and Green, and it's going to change how opposing defense is going to be set.

I hate to sound like Capers here, but doesn't matter what 'scheme' you use, the lineman still still has to beat the guy across from him.
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Old 10-15-2007   #35
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

The reasons we have had a poor running game I beleive doesn't soley lye on bad running backs. This past week our running game wasn't that bad it was just we were behind and didn't get a chance to run much. We can't run up the middle because our line doesn't give the push that it should/use to.

We started out running the ball fine early but as soon as we got bad penalitys it put jax up ahead and left us fighting to come back. When you have to fight to come back you abandon the running game and try to get down the field. Our major deal is to control the clock better, better play calling, more upfront movement from the Oline
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Old 10-15-2007   #36
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

I would not mind putting J. Jones, in the backfield, for a few plays.
Sorta of like a R.Bush style player, that can turn the corners.
Its clear, that the pressure is coming from the middle, where our Center is lofting it on every play.
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Old 10-15-2007   #37
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
This is the perfect post to make a certain point, which I think is being overlooked. Instead of "It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID" . .

. . it should be "KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID".

I didn't see this "Kubiak/Sherman hybrid scheme" being questioned in the first two games when the offensive line was winning the battle upfront.

Why make it complicated now?


I know this is a very, very unpopular view, but instead of questioning the scheme, which again, worked quite well apparently the first two games, why not recognize how much the loss of McKinney impacted the running game? Combine that loss with the loss of AJ and Green, and it's going to change how opposing defense is going to be set.

I hate to sound like Capers here, but doesn't matter what 'scheme' you use, the lineman still still has to beat the guy across from him.
Marcus, this may be a tough concept to grasp, but the more games that are played, the more conclusions you start to draw as you observe the league...that's how it works for me at least.
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Old 10-15-2007   #38
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
fully agreed...lets give up our first round pick next year so we can get to 9-7.


Finally someone knocked some sense in to you. its worth it if we can end up with a chester taylor of tatum bell.
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Old 10-15-2007   #39
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I say we go to Costco and pick us up a spare running back. As I said last week, I saw a big muscular guy there who looked pretty fast. You need to pay with cash, check or Amex to shop there, and you also need a membership card.

Tell me your names of all these backs better than Green, and what price you are willing to pay after Game 6 of the season to get a back who hasn't practiced with you.

Personally, I think there are some fundamental issues that the Texans have with their run game other than just the backs. I don't buy the backs, the offensive line, the scheme, or the play calling. I have never been convinced that the Kubiak passing game can work along with the Sherman run game. Show me which regular season game the Texans have had where they work together.
I think this is really a crux of the problem that does get passed over by some people. There should be some headcoaching positions Sherman will be considered for again possibly. I quietly wouldn't mind him taking up another spot. Just really think too many cooks in the kitchen.

On Edit: Isn't Corey Dillion still available?

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Old 10-15-2007   #40
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Default Re: It's the RUNNING BACK, STUPID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Charles Spencer played a game and half and he isn't playing this year as we all know. The Texans starting left tackle for the past year and a half is a swing tackle. The person they brought in to challenge for the job this year was valued because he could play guard and tackle. Yes roster spots are limited and mutli-role players are good to have as back-ups, but many teams have real left tackles playing left tackle.

It is a rare player that is elite or even above average at multiple positions. It is even harder for a player on a team that has inferior talent at other positions.
1 of our 5 starting linemen would best be described as a "swing player" and it's because the incumbent starter blew out his knee last season. Almost every one of our back ups can play multiple positions and I agree with that philosophy for the above mentioned reasons. I agree with you that we need a true LT and I was for drafting Levi Brown for that very reason regardless of Spencer's health status. I just think it's a stretch to criticize Kubes for going after swing players, I think he only brings in swing players in a back up capacity which is an intelligent philosophy, IMO. Salaam is a starter because injury made it a necessity.

Last edited by Fox; 10-15-2007 at 11:27 PM.
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