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Old 11-15-2004   #41
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Originally Posted by Vinny
We were in 4-3 looks in many times in the game. We ran out of the 3-3-5 for most of it to be honest. It's not the flippin alignment, its the players and the execution (coaching). If you look at the game again you will see us in multiple formations. You just have to look.
point well taken. Can you explain why after the last two weeks the defense has looked so, for lack of better verbage ineffective? Seemed like the Texans defense was pretty good against Jacksonville & 1st half of the season. Did the personel change? Are there significant injurys? What changed?

what changed in my opinion is that teams have figured out how to take advantage of our defensive schemes. Opening the secondary like a can of Cambells soup. Yes I did notice the 4-3 look as you stated but there was still no pass rush, even when Payton stayed in late in the 4th quarter because they had to drop back into coverage, the Colts killed us with their tightends, just as Denver did last week. If its not the flippen alignment its the players & exectuion its because its out of balance not centered.
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Old 11-15-2004   #42
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I donno BL. We put way too many 250 pound linebackers in iso coverage. I find it amazing that I rewind the game and I find Foreman isolated on Stokley and Harrison on different plays. I find it amazing that when I look at the game again I see simple square out patterns on isolated LB's ripping us to shreds. We run way, way, way too much linebacker isolation coverages and are caught in mismatches over and over.
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Old 11-15-2004   #43
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I agree with that Vinny. So is it personel or the scheme?

In beer layman's terms is the glass half full or half empty? I agree that the Texans need to draft a playmaker on defense in the 1st round to make the 3-4 work. What I was hoping for (as it seems you where as well) was a lb/ss/cb but after viewing the Texans inability to even lay a hand on Manning a stud DT is #1 priorty. I'm just not sold on any of them however, which begs the question do they take the best defensive playmaker in the draft that fits the 3-4 or go in another direction?
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Old 11-15-2004   #44
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Originally Posted by beerlover
I agree with that Vinny. So is it personel or the scheme?

In beer layman's terms is the glass half full or half empty? I agree that the Texans need to draft a playmaker on defense in the 1st round to make the 3-4 work. What I was hoping for (as it seems you where as well) was a lb/ss/cb but after viewing the Texans inability to even lay a hand on Manning a stud DT is #1 priorty. I'm just not sold on any of them however, which begs the question do they take the best defensive playmaker in the draft that fits the 3-4 or go in another direction?
If the past has been any indication, the priority will de on defensive play makers, but if there is a offensive guy that is a better player that is who the Texans will draft. Think the team has 8 picks, assuming that there are no trades I expect 5 or 6 defensive players out of that mix. Remember though this maybe the first year that the first round pick does not immediately walk into a starting job with the Texans.
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Old 11-15-2004   #45
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What we need is someone teams have to scheme around. We need an Andre Johnson type of difference maker on defense. A guy teams have to adjust to right off the bat. Right now we just don't have that guy. Our 3 down linemen do well, but we have weak reserves behind them and most of them are decent players but nothing special. Sharper is all over but gets little to no help from Foreman, so that almost negates Sharper. Wong has had good games but he isn't Willie McGinnest. Speaking of Pats, Babin looks like Mike Vrabel. Solid, developing player, but not a superstar. We need one impact player. We just don't have it. People want to point fingers and blame the coaches or the scheme, but our rookies will play like rookies for the rest of the year and we don't have a true superstar that can take another team out of what they do well.
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Old 11-15-2004   #46
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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
Think the team has 8 picks, assuming that there are no trades I expect 5 or 6 defensive players out of that mix.
And that is a huge and risky assumption with Casserly at the controls. With
his wheeler-dealer mentality, he may do something real stupid like use the
2, 3, & 4 pick on some yocal from someplace like West Central Montana State A&M or some similar place. Wish he would have used a couple of those
picks in the last draft on a couple interior linemen. They would have come in real handy yesterday. No, I'm sure if O line wasn't a high priority in the 2005
draft, it became that in the last 2 weeks.
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Old 11-15-2004   #47
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Correct on all of that Vinny, but we also need to turn up the intensity level. We seem to passive. More a react to what is hapenning defense rather than a, make it happen defense. That may just be a function of the quality of players we are fielding, but I suspect it is more a function of the coaching. Our coaching staff is a very passive "student of the game" type of staff and it seems to be reflected in the intensity level of the players. A lot of skill defenciency can be covered over by a higher level of intensity of play. In the games we have lost most people have refered to us as being "Flat" and I see that as a function of the coaching staffs prep of the team.
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Old 11-15-2004   #48
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Originally Posted by edo783
Correct on all of that Vinny, but we also need to turn up the intensity level. We seem to passive. More a react to what is hapenning defense rather than a, make it happen defense.
That was Fangio's knock at Indy. The scheme was so complex that it made the players look passive. Too much thinking, not enough seek and destroy.
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Old 11-15-2004   #49
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i agree with the not enough seek and destroy, maybe it is a few players missing here or there, but there are some athletes taht need to be unleashed onto the opponents. Where is the 7 or 8 man blitz that would surely get quick pressure on the qb, which would allow the dbs to not have to cover for 6 secs. on one play. Where are more blitzes from duanta who has definately gotten into the back field on almost all of his blitzes this year. but once again i think that all goes somewhat back to the personel on the field. What happened to the experiment in preseason where wong moves to the middle with peek and babin on the outsides. Thats a pass rush that could be scary, thats three lineman going up the middle with the possibility of any of the four LBs coming as well. it would be rememiscent of the days of Clevelands UFO defense where they were all over and didnt know who was comiing or going. THe defense needs something original that hasnt been seen from the texans yet. they need to use what they have.
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Old 11-15-2004   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
That was Fangio's knock at Indy. The scheme was so complex that it made the players look passive. Too much thinking, not enough seek and destroy.
I know early in the year i though Babin was really thinking a lot. I have not focused on him as much latley, but he has yet to display explosiveness, so he may still be. Possibiliy is this keeping Peek of the field. That said, Dunta did not seem to have to advst as much.

My big coaching staff issue on defense is that the team does seem to play better when blitzing a ton or forcing issues.
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Old 11-15-2004   #51
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I will always compare and contrast the Steelers 3-4 to ours. When you look at the Steelers 3-4 they have at least 3 guys in the linebacker corps with high motors. Too much in one to get himself kicked out, but at least he has fire. Peek reminds me so much of Porter that next year I seem in starting at the ROLB spot. He just needs a little more seasoning and Wong can move to the Buc spot. I think our line is better than theirs but we are just not calling the right mix of blitzes. I don't think I say 1 corner blitz yesterday. The mentality of lets bend don't break on several of these games leaves me to believe that in those cases our defense was more on it heals in a read and react mode more than taking over a game. There is plenty of share to go around. I pin this more on the offense than the defense. Because if you look at it, in all of the Colts losses the other team had to score more than 24 points. We only got 14. From the get go both sides of the ball came out without any fire. I saw a glimse of it from the offense when we were moving the ball until the interception intended for AJ.
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Old 11-15-2004   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Pittsburgh, San Diego, and New England seem to do well with it. It's not the 3-4 scheme. We are just a .500 team and most of you guys don't see it.

exactly don't you guys wish you had steve foley now that he has 6 sacks and has been a terror on defense for us with several big hits. I'd like to personally thank the texans GM for letting steve foley go so we could sign him.

You guys need to focus on bringing in guys that want to play smashmouth football. Not neccesarily big names just good football players like foley randall godfrey etc..... It's working for the Chargers it has worked for the patriots and even last years bengals improved because of it they just have carson palmer slowing them down this year
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Old 11-15-2004   #53
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exactly don't you guys wish you had steve foley now that he has 6 sacks and has been a terror on defense for us with several big hits. I'd like to personally thank the texans GM for letting steve foley go so we could sign him.
It's deja vu/Jeff Possey all over again. If the Texans can't identitfy the best players on their team (or formerly on their team), no wonder they are struggling so with some of their assessments of college talent as potential draft picks.
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Old 11-15-2004   #54
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SInce we're discussing defence's and all that; is it my imagination (deleted teh Tivo copy of the game, so I can't check this for sure) that the few blitzes we run are very simple blitzes and not the complex ones that give teh opposing O-line fits (see teh Sharper/Babin? crossing blitz against the Raiders). Nad I don't think blitzing a CB is all that comple these days.
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Old 11-15-2004   #55
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the 3-4 gives you great options in the blitz game. For us in the beginning of the year our blitz schemes were simple because it is our first year in the system. Now we are mixing it up and really disguising our blitzes well
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Old 11-15-2004   #56
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steve foley was released because of the other two young OLB's the texans have. The real shame was that the bengals released him after he was a starter, and now they dont ahve any linebackers healthy. And i agree peek may be starting next year with wong having to move one more time to ILB, but if the season doesnt turn around soon i would make the move soon. And corner back blitzes. Dunta has had a few of them and i believe he has applied a lot of pressure on them if not getting a sack, he is a gamer and he has the speed and power to do it, so let him loose three times a game. the beauty of the scheme is that with the others rushing they wouldnt see the cb blitz coming so it works. and i agree with the comment about hte lack of mixing up the blitz. Shoot i would almost have all the linebackers off the line and have them blitz in all different directions instead of straight up. like i said in another post, if they did that it would be hard to know whos doing what and the oline wouldnt be able to make as easy reads on whos blocking who, just like the old UFO defense the browns ran for a year.
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Old 11-15-2004   #57
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this has been an informative post (for me at least) searching for answears to the demise of what seemed at seasons mid point to at least be an capable defense. Also this thread was started during the game I believe still in the 3rd quater so I was obviously upset & some of it may have been just venting. I apologise to anyone I may have offended (supergenius).

I've been terrible @ predicting scores, not even close on a single game (losing the easy ones, winning the difficult ones-forget about the last two) I really thought the Texans defense would improve as the season wore on as the rookies matured and the players already in place would master the 3-4. This is not an excuse because there is none. Its planely obvious I don't understand how the 3-4 works because it sure seems we do have the personel to run it.

the consensous from all your posts seems to be one of lack of exacution & not the scheme itself. Fine, maybe we are getting somewhere now why are the Texans suddenly not exacuting the 3-4? I can understand its a five year plan and the Texans are a couple playmakers short on the defensive side but still I expect them to compete and hang in the games & not totally get blown out week after week.
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Old 11-15-2004   #58
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of course its not the scheme, it works for many teams. i have started to come around and blame the use of the scheme by the coaches a little bit more though. I think that the players we have can be used in other ways that would make this defense much more effective. I think that they need to open things up with blitzes, and stop dropping everyone back (the LBs) into coverage so much. say what we want about the pass rush but sending four guys isnt going to get much done against an oline that is decent. if other teams only sent four guys against us, we would expect carr to never get a grass stain on him (but not necessarily with our oline). We need to get the players in situations where they can make more happen. I think earl will provide more excitement with a few more games of actually playing, duanta is doing well, sharper is going to always produce if he gets a little help, and i still want to see the LB set up sometime with wong in the middle for foreman and peek and babin on the outside.
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Old 11-15-2004   #59
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Trust me we were all shocked yesterday at the play of the whole team. And I still like Beer I've just watched the game again and I saw several instances of us dropping LB's that shouldn't be dropped that far. As Vinny has noted, Foreman dropping back into coverage is insane. Did you see his coverage on that TD?? It was like oops there's the ball. They totally exploited us on many plays that involved Foreman playing 5-10 yards back. I saw Sharper apply pressure up the middle and flush out Manning, but it seem to have been too few times his number was called to do so. The defensive plan was just waaaaaay to timid and not aggressive. I'd rather lose by trying to create plays on defense than be passive as Manning can pick and choose his targets. Like I said before, I think this game rests on the shoulders of many and all. Even Kris Brown!!!!
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Old 11-16-2004   #60
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We still need another starting linebacker before we take a reserve DL. It's hard to make too many adjustments when you are the thinnest team in the league talent wise. Our starters can compete with the rest of the league, but our reserves are still expansion thin.


In this day and age of free agency it doesn't take 5 years to aquire depth. If this was the 70's or 80's yes. Capers didn't do a great job in the expansion draft. He also signed some questionable free agents for big money that haven't produced like they should. The draft has been our only saving grace.
I still want someone to tell me what our measuring stick is for our 5 year plan. You can't just get to the end of 5 years and then decide whether or not its working without ever evaluating the plan along the way. That's bad business. The Texans played better last year with a lot more injuries. They don't have the same passion. The only good team we have beaten this year is Jacksonville. Last year we played alot of great teams to the wire with less talent on the field.
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