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Old 10-08-2007   #41
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

The scarecrow needed a brain. The lion needed courage.

Me thinks Travis is the scarecrow here, and Trent is the lion.

I can see why TJ was ticked off, but he cost his team 7 points in that situation. And to make matters worse he mouthed off a couple of hours later. I didn't like the block either, and TJ now has to have an MRI, but the lasting national image will be TJ standing over a lifeless Green pointing his finger at him. He should have been ticked off, but not to the detriment of his team.
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Old 10-08-2007   #42
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

Did TJ play the rest of the game?
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Old 10-08-2007   #43
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
I respect your opinion too, Frog, but I would be curious if another attorney made a cheap play to have you disbarred, how would you react??

Trent Green made a cognisant decision to go after TJ's knees. TJ 'reacted' to the choice that Green made. Remember that Green was on his side with his face towards the turf - when Johnson reacted so, in all honesty there's a good chance that TJ did not know Green was out at that point.

If anything I take more issue with TJ's act in the locker room - after the game. Those comments were uncalled for.
I'd be peeved but I'd have to temper wanting to get revenge or being peeved with what is the best thing for me to do in the situation. However, I'm not going to sit here and act like I would know how he'd feel after that play and being flipped. I will say that in high school I was playing DB and this WR tried to cut me and then hung onto my legs...I ended up punching the guy to get him off my legs. Ref saw it...15 yards.. and my coach pulled me for a play. I told him I only tried to throw the guy off my legs. In film session that Monday it was almost like the camera zoomed in on me and I had pulled back from Brooklyn to throw the punch..lol. Coach was a tiny peeved to say the least. Anyways, dumb play on my part. That is how I feel about TJ...he had a right to be peeved but the way he went over to him bothered me. I know Green was facing the other ways but he looked dead...again, I can't say how TJ saw the angle or whatever.

I may be wrong though. I can see people's point. I just think about it differently. But I think we all agree that he should have shut it down post-game.
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Old 10-08-2007   #44
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
(looking for a photo)
Does this one work?
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Old 10-08-2007   #45
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

the national media doesn't care about the truth of the situation, they only care about what is sensational and sells deodorant.

That's why they are going to keep showing the picture of TJ standing over Green because it enrages people while selling deodorant and cars.

I'm already getting sick of the TJ and Green thing. I need to stay out of these threads before I start saying stupid things.
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Old 10-08-2007   #46
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
the national media doesn't care about the truth of the situation, they only care about what is sensational and sells deodorant.

That's why they are going to keep showing the picture of TJ standing over Green because it enrages people while selling deodorant and cars.

I'm already getting sick of the TJ and Green thing. I need to stay out of these threads before I start saying stupid things.
Collinsworth was on-record before last night's game as calling Green's block a "cheap shot".

TJ jumping up and yelling at Green I have no problem with (as he was unaware that Green was unconscious) and it was a "heat of the moment" response to a guy sending him ***-over-teakettle with a cut block that could have ended TJ's year (or career). His (TJ's) behavior AFTER the game was just plain stupid, and part of the reason that "maturity level" has been a knock on TJ since before he came out of college.
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Old 10-08-2007   #47
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Cool Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

Yes Andy, thanks. I fully understand why TJ was ticked, look at that picture. In addition to a possible season ending knee injury, he could have broken his neck (see picture above). Also, his arm was out mid-cartwheel and he came down awkwardly on his wrist. Could have broken it.

Whe said after the game was plain immature.

National media needs to recognize he did apologize later.

The NFL rules should change such that that hit in that type of situation is illegal.
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Old 10-08-2007   #48
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
Yes Andy, thanks. I fully understand why TJ was ticked, look at that picture. In addition to a possible season ending knee injury, he could have broken his neck (see picture above).

Whe said after the game was plain immature.

National media needs to recognize hid did apologize later.

The NFL rules should change such that that hit in that type of situation is illegal.
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Old 10-08-2007   #49
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

And if you saw the replay of the after game interview, at least ONE of his teammates was trying to get his attention and tell him to SHUT UP, and quite sounding like the fool that he was sounding like.

He did come out and apologize for that rant late, but I suspect it was after, hopefully, he got a 'heated conversation' directed at him by either his teammates, coaches, owner of the team, or all of them.

was it a QB cheap shot? YEP

Was it only making the situation worse by the poor Sportmanship exibited by TJ afterwards, no doubt about it.

Instead of the media showing replays of what happens when a QB uplugs his brain and takes on a DT, the replays are now showing what happens when a DT, Johnson, unplugs his brain, and taunts an unconscious player.

embarrassing is putting it mildly
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Old 10-08-2007   #50
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
The NFL rules should change such that that hit in that type of situation is illegal.
which hit in which situation? the knee to the head? that can't be illegal because it wasn't the blockee's fault that the blocker's head was where it was.
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Old 10-08-2007   #51
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Cool Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

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Originally Posted by powerfuldragon View Post
which hit in which situation? the knee to the head? that can't be illegal because it wasn't the blockee's fault that the blocker's head was where it was.
No, it should be an illegal chop block (what Green did).
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Old 10-08-2007   #52
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
No, it should be an illegal chop block (what Green did).
i thought it already was illegal...
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Old 10-08-2007   #53
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

Quote:
The NFL rules should change such that that hit in that type of situation is illegal.
there is a rule for no hitting below the waist in the event of a turnover, INT or Fumble recovery by the Defensive team. There is no rule for a fumble, and subsequent recovery by the same team. I am sure this will looked at the competition committee for possilbe rule changes during the next offseason, especially with the attraction that this play has generated in the media.

the NFL is trying to protect the players from injury as much as possible, with most of its rule changes.

this is definitely something that needs to have some Rule Enforcement behind it.
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Old 10-08-2007   #54
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

Peter King's article about it:

He takes Greens side

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ek5/index.html
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Old 10-08-2007   #55
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegr8fan View Post
there is a rule for no hitting below the waist in the event of a turnover, INT or Fumble recovery by the Defensive team. There is no rule for a fumble, and subsequent recovery by the same team. I am sure this will looked at the competition committee for possilbe rule changes during the next offseason, especially with the attraction that this play has generated in the media.

the NFL is trying to protect the players from injury as much as possible, with most of its rule changes.

this is definitely something that needs to have some Rule Enforcement behind it.
Right, it wasn't illegal. Mike and Mike talked about it........

For all that I said saying TJ should have laid off Mike and Mike agreed with TJ and told the whole story...at least on the initial anger stuff. They spelled it out instead of just saying TJ kneed him. Golic was just as peeved but didn't think Greens hit was malicious....just that TJ deserved to be peeved and rect the way he did. Again, not my opinion but I respect Golic and I am wrong sometimes. You can listen to it on ESPN
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Old 10-08-2007   #56
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

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Originally Posted by thegr8fan View Post
there is a rule for no hitting below the waist in the event of a turnover, INT or Fumble recovery by the Defensive team. There is no rule for a fumble, and subsequent recovery by the same team. I am sure this will looked at the competition committee for possilbe rule changes during the next offseason, especially with the attraction that this play has generated in the media.

the NFL is trying to protect the players from injury as much as possible, with most of its rule changes.

this is definitely something that needs to have some Rule Enforcement behind it.

The only time/place that a block below the waiste that isn't a face-to-face engagement, is inside the tackles and at the line of scrimmage. This was a clip from the side, outside the tackle, and away from the LOS. I'm pretty sure that is an illegal block.
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Old 10-08-2007   #57
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

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The only time/place that a block below the waiste that isn't a face-to-face engagement, is inside the tackles and at the line of scrimmage. This was a clip from the side, outside the tackle, and away from the LOS. I'm pretty sure that is an illegal block.
I am absolutely positive that it was a cheap shot, yet TOTALLY legal block, according to the rules.

Defensive players have been lobby-ing for this rule change for years now. Due to exact situations like this happening in previous games. They just didn't get as much national attention as this particular one has, and the owners have never been able to get a majority vote to change the rule, previously.

I understand TJ's Heat of the Moment anger, but when you go back to a guy laying on the ground unconscious, isn't that 'justice' enough, without the pointing of a finger and the verbal assault, that Green didn't hear anyway.
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Old 10-08-2007   #58
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

To help clarify definitions:
Quote:
CLIP
CLIPPING: Throwing the body across the back of an opponent's leg or hitting him from the back below the waist while moving up from behind unless the opponent is a runner or the action is in close line play.
Quote:
CRACKBACK Eligible receivers who take or move to a position more than two yards outside the tackle may not block an opponent below the waist if they then move back inside to block.
Quote:
CRACKBACK BLOCK: Blocking by an offensive player who goes downfield then turns back to the middle to block a player from the side.
Quote:
CHOP BLOCK
An offensive player may not block a person below the waist from behind.
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Old 10-08-2007   #59
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

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Doesn't matter, IMO. Taunting has no place in sports regardless of the circumstances surrounding it. Just because he didn't set his feet and lean over him doesn't mean it wasn't taunting. He certainly was pointing and jawing in the direction of Green, the referee construed it as taunting, and he was rightfully flagged for it. Nevermind that both Kubiak and Johnson said it was the wrong thing to do after the game.

Everyone wants to talk about it being a dirty block. I concur that the method he went about trying to deliver the block was in poor form (he is a QB, why would you expect it to be a perfectly executed block, anyway), but I really think that the intention to cause injury was not there. His head was turned away from Johnson.

BTW, has Green ever manifested a proclivity for dirty play?
Look, the penalty that was called is called "taunting". I have nowhere seen or read that what Travis Johnson actually did was to "taunt" Trent Green. There is a distinct difference between taunting someone and screaming "Hey WTF do you think you're doing hitting me low like that?"

For the record I don't know what he said but I'm pretty confident that all of the people (including yourself) who are coming unglued over the diabolical horror that is Travis Johnson don't know what he said either.

Watch it in real time and note that he gets up (after landing on his head), finds the guy who hit him in the knee, and walks toward him shouting. About the time he gets to where Green is on the ground Johnson clearly realizes that Green is hurt and shuts his trap and heads for the sideline. Sadly this is too late to prevent the flag but he's not a nazi war criminal and the people pointing out that what he actually did wasn't nearly as horrifying as it's being made out to be are right. Johnson did nothing on the field to be ashamed of.

His tirade post-game I think he should be embarrassed about but I don't think Johnson is the sharpest tool in the shed. Instead of apologizing for losing his cool and saying that he hopes Green makes a full recovery he tried to justify what he did on the field. That was a mistake and makes this situation worse not better.
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Old 10-08-2007   #60
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Default Re: YouTube - TJ and Green

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Originally Posted by Porky View Post
The scarecrow needed a brain. The lion needed courage.

Me thinks Travis is the scarecrow here, and Trent is the lion.

I can see why TJ was ticked off, but he cost his team 7 points in that situation. And to make matters worse he mouthed off a couple of hours later. I didn't like the block either, and TJ now has to have an MRI, but the lasting national image will be TJ standing over a lifeless Green pointing his finger at him. He should have been ticked off, but not to the detriment of his team.
I call foul! Poor choice of words. He was limp, not dead. Keep this in perspective.
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