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Old 01-11-2008   #581
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Also continues to throw out the 'skilled players' rhetoric, when Kerry Collins did just fine with those same players. Another thing, the last time I checked, running backs were skilled positions...
I'm still waiting for a VY fan to tell me how Kerry Collins was able to be more effective then VY himself, when they played the same supposed crap at the skill positions.
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Old 01-11-2008   #582
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Originally Posted by aj. View Post
The microcosm of it all is on the Titans message boards. Lots of division on him over there with (not surprisingly) the loudest defenders (and loudest critics of lacking weapons) sporting Longhorns avatars of some sort.

The division in the ranks is evident in the exchanges between some of the TN based Titans-first fans and the Austin/Houston based Vince-first fans. It's not unusual to have divided opinions about players but I sense there's an element of that fan base up there that wants the other to just go away.

It's not just what I'm interpreting from their boards. I know people who live there and they've expressed these feelings to me.
I hear you on that one, there is plenty of frustration with real Titan fans and Young fans who follow the Titans. One of my friends was an Oiler fan and is still a Tack fan. Anyway, he is a UT alum, but hates the fact that many of his Cowboy friends root for the Tacks because of Vince. I've met a couple of people like that around Austin, but the majority are just Vince sniffers.

When it comes to the allegiance lines at the Tomb, it's actually pretty funny. At first they liked all the new fans, but once they realized they only liked Vince and made excuses for him things turned quickly. Oh well, their problem not ours.
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Old 01-11-2008   #583
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
I stated that Mario's level of effort was inconsistent early in the season to back up my argument that Mario didn't deserve Player of the Year. Not to back up an argument that Mario sucks. big difference. I said Mario was too inconsistent with his effort and production to be considered POY not that Mario sucks.

I have supported Mario but that doesnt mean I have to say that he deserves to be DPOY.....because he doesnt.

Like I said, I understand why all the local yayhoos hate on Vince, but that doesnt mean that VY sucks. This isnt about Mario v Vince. This is about ignorance v. reality.

I guess being objective about things is frowned upon. let's just make it all bias, hyperbole, and ignorance.
Pot meet Kettle
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Old 01-11-2008   #584
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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I'm still waiting for a VY fan to tell me how Kerry Collins was able to be more effective then VY himself, when they played the same supposed crap at the skill positions.
How many TDs did Collins throw this season? He had 3 games basically to prove he could move the ball with these "skilled" players and still failed to score a TD. Add the fact that he was passing against the Colts second team D makes you really wonder how bad the Titans WR core is.
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Old 01-11-2008   #585
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Originally Posted by Blazing Arrow View Post
At least we went to the prom instead of watching from the outside wishing we could have alteast worked the lights ...
Resorting to high school analogies? Sounds like the words of a bitterman.

Congrats on making the playoffs...and losing. yeah, we haven't been there in our measly six seasons, but choking out early is par for the course with your franchise's four decades of futility.

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OK I still don't think number 4 counts. I mean come on he only made the pro bowl because 1. Brady Withdrew, 2. Rivers got hurt and couldn't play. Being a 3rd choice to be a 3rd stringer does not count in my mind.
Understand your point, but that doesn't stop the VY-is-god crowd from propping him up with his Pro Bowl appearance. So it's fair game when talking about the overwhelming hype around the dude.

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
What the hell does the guy have to do to not be the subject of such ignorant jealousy and blind hatred?
Live up to the hype.

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
and to the people that show his INT numbers, well that is what happens with young QBs.
I have been told on too many occasions to count that VY is an elite QB already. So which is it? A young QB who is nothing like the hype machine, struggling to cope with a pro-style offense after being coddled with the spread to accommodate his running style and lack of precise passing ability? Or, he is an elite QB who had a really bad year?

The delusions of hype are not living up to a reality check.

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And lastly, did you see the talent that is around him at the skill positions?
Excuses are like...well, you know, and they all stink. The Tits were good enough to make the playoffs, so all this hand-wringing on your part only serves to expose your agenda.

Why can't you just admit that the real Vince Young is nothing like the myth and legend of His Greatness?

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
I guess being objective about things is frowned upon. let's just make it all bias, hyperbole, and ignorance.
That's never stopped you from spewing an opinion!

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
It's not an anti-VY thing for me, as much as it is an anti-VY-hype thing.
Word up. I was certainly looking forward to watching an elite QB at work this year, only because I gave the VY-is-god crowd the benefit of the doubt.

Talk about a letdown!

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I just wish our fanbase was a little more objective and less homer/hater.


oh, you were serious? Coming from you, man, that is rich!

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...it just drives me crazy when I hear the same people make blanket VY sucks statements when the guy has exceeded the expectations of the team that drafted him as well as the majority of the opinions around the league.
Huh?

Somebody has been too busy feeding the hype machine to actually absorb what it's been spewing the past year. The expectations by the VY-is-god crowd had the dude winning Super Bowls all by his lonesome and the NFL front office re-writing the rule book to adjust the league to his awesome talent and abilities.

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Although I felt we should have passed on resigning Carr and drafted Young, I am actually glad that we didn't draft Young. half the fans would already be calling for him to be benched....the same fans that were still making excuses for DC after 5 years of failure. i guess some people are just judged differently. hmmm....
Carr never had the hype around him like VY has had the past couple of seasons. And VY never played on a brand new expansion team. It's apples and oranges with regards to situations. As much as you hate David Carr, it appears your love for Young is just as strong.

Objectivity is obviously not your thing.
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Old 01-11-2008   #586
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
I am sure the fans living in Tennessee are probably not big fans of that whole 'invasion' of interest from the outside. They understood that a few Houstonians may stick with the team after the move but its probably getting a little out of hand now. What if they draft Sweed in the 1st Round? its getting pretty crazy that is for sure. What if its all part and parcel of an evil Bud Adams master plan to bring the Titans to....drumroll please....AUSTIN!!

but yeah, even last week during the playoff game, Costas refers to the Titans as 'Houston'. I know that had to sting a bit. Not even the Oilers but 'Houston'.


Austin will not allow a pro team to come into town. Austin is a UT town and won't allow it. Too bad though, I would love a pro team of some sort. Baseball/football/ or baseketball. Oh well, when I move to Houston next year I wont have that problem .
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Old 01-11-2008   #587
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Originally Posted by Blazing Arrow View Post
How many TDs did Collins throw this season? He had 3 games basically to prove he could move the ball with these "skilled" players and still failed to score a TD. Add the fact that he was passing against the Colts second team D makes you really wonder how bad the Titans WR core is.
1 game started (appeared in 6):
He went 0 TD's, but he also threw 0 INT's....he completed 61% of his passes for a QB rating of 79.9 v. Youngs 17 INT's and 71.1 rating.
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Old 01-11-2008   #588
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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You claim to want objectivity and then say things like this. Last year this would have been true. This year it is unquestionably false. This isn't a Houston haters thing it is all over the country starting with TN fans wanting to start Collins, his center calling him out, his coaches commenting on his play and tons of talking heads talking about him regressing. He took a step back this year not forward and plenty of folks outside Houston noticed it since it was so obvious.
Young was looked at as a less than polished NFL QB by most accounts. He was looked at as a project but had it thrust on him early. He made some big plays last year and helped them improve from 3-13 the previous year. This year, he QBed a team that made the playoffs. They played a competitive game and all this with a inarguably underfunded roster. If they werent even expecting him to start until his 2nd season or later, why would they be disappointed with his progress? As Texans fans we should all remember how freaking hard our division is and give credit where credit is due. VY didn't lead his team to the playoffs by himself, but he did guarantee they would get there....and what'd ya know.

fwiw - i have never said Young was an elite QB. It just seems that everyone else expects him to be there already. we will learn a lot about the future of VY in his 3rd year. Can he recapture the athleticism and escapability he showed in Year 1? Can he progress as a passer and cut down on his interceptions? He will have to in order to take the next step in becoming a top QB in the league.
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Old 01-11-2008   #589
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

I am so glad we didn't draft Young... we could have saved alot of bandwidth space becase at this point the arguments here and on TOMB look very similar to another QB that the Texans know too well and had tons of threads about it (and I admit I was a YKW supporter and I was flat out wrong about the guy)

I am not comparing VY to an ex QB here (with out the hype) just the pros and cons of a QB running (or trying to run) an NFL offense
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Old 01-11-2008   #590
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
I'm still waiting for a VY fan to tell me how Kerry Collins was able to be more effective then VY himself, when they played the same supposed crap at the skill positions.
Collins didn't do anything that special, other than the Texans game.

I DQ the Indy game, they didn't care at all and let the Titans win. A JC QB would have completed passes in that scrimmage.
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Old 01-11-2008   #591
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Collins didn't do anything that special, other than the Texans game.

I DQ the Indy game, they didn't care at all and let the Titans win. A JC QB would have completed passes in that scrimmage.
That was the only game he started.
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Old 01-11-2008   #592
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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That was the only game he started.
Fine...but they didn't win that game because of Collins, they won that game because Bironas kicked a zillion FGs, which actually I would argue is a strike against Collins.

I looked up his stats, 25 of 42 for 280 yards, no TDs, no INTs.

Titans ran the ball down the Texan's throat that game, 39 rushes for 160 yards....
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Old 01-11-2008   #593
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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That was the only game he started.
*ahem* due to someone's vahjayjay hurting.

Otherwise we would've won that dadgum game. Of course Ron Daynes dining partner put up a 100 burger on us.
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Old 01-11-2008   #594
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Fine...but they didn't win that game because of Collins, they won that game because Bironas kicked a zillion FGs, which actually I would argue is a strike against Collins.

I looked up his stats, 25 of 42 for 280 yards, no TDs, no INTs.

Titans ran the ball down the Texan's throat that game, 39 rushes for 160 yards....
25 of 42 for 280 is a damn fine afternoon...
= 11.24 yards per reception (thats pretty good in anyone's book)

39 for 160 = 4.1 ypc (is good, but not stellar).


Bottom line..... Did Kerry Collins manage the game well for the Titans? Yes!!
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Old 01-11-2008   #595
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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25 of 42 for 280 is a damn fine afternoon...
= 11.24 yards per reception (thats pretty good in anyone's book)

39 for 160 = 4.1 ypc (is good, but not stellar).


Bottom line..... Did Kerry Collins manage the game well for the Titans? Yes!!
No TDs? 8 FGs? He managed a good game, then they completely sucked in the red zone. If VY had done that? I'm guessing based on the context of this thread he would be RIPPED to shreds.

I'm not a VY homer, but I believe he was the right pick for the Titans then, and have no issues with it two seasons later.
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Old 01-11-2008   #596
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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No TDs? 8 FGs? He managed a good game, then they completely sucked in the red zone. If VY had done that? I'm guessing based on the context of this thread he would be RIPPED to shreds.

I'm not a VY homer, but I believe he was the right pick for the Titans then, and have no issues with it two seasons later.
I would be happy with the pick too. going from 3-13 to 8-8 then playoffs shows signs that things are turning around and whether people like it or not, VY has been part of that turnaround. Not THE part just A part which happens to be the most critical position on the team. I don't see how you couldn't be happy given the circumstances and realities of the AFC.
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Old 01-11-2008   #597
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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No TDs? 8 FGs? He managed a good game, then they completely sucked in the red zone. If VY had done that? I'm guessing based on the context of this thread he would be RIPPED to shreds.

I'm not a VY homer, but I believe he was the right pick for the Titans then, and have no issues with it two seasons later.
If you have the running game that Tennessee has AND you had your back-up QB in the game, I'm thinking 31 other teams would have run the ball in the red zone....

Then again, if you have the running game that Tennessee has and Young is your QB in the game, I'm thinking 31 other teams would have run the ball in the red zone too....

BTW, I'm exstatic that he plays for the Tinnbreds...
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Old 01-11-2008   #598
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Fine...but they didn't win that game because of Collins, they won that game because Bironas kicked a zillion FGs, which actually I would argue is a strike against Collins.

I looked up his stats, 25 of 42 for 280 yards, no TDs, no INTs.

Titans ran the ball down the Texan's throat that game, 39 rushes for 160 yards....
So when Collins plays, and Bironas kicks a FG to win the game the credit goes to Bironeas. But when VY plays, and Bironas kicks the game-winning FG, the credit goed to VY for getting them in position to score?

Players who where more responsible then VY for the succes of the Titans: Albert Haynesworth, and RB, Bironas, Van den Boasch, Bullock, and Pac-Man (last year).
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Old 01-11-2008   #599
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

the word "hater" is becoming the downfall of our society as we know it. what an IDIOTIC thing to say.
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Old 01-11-2008   #600
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Default Re: Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
I would be happy with the pick too. going from 3-13 to 8-8 then playoffs shows signs that things are turning around and whether people like it or not, VY has been part of that turnaround. Not THE part just A part which happens to be the most critical position on the team. I don't see how you couldn't be happy given the circumstances and realities of the AFC.
Once Williams and Bush were taken, I knew they had two choices. Take VY, or trade down and take BPA on D because they were NOT going to take Leinart or Cutler.
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