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Old 10-05-2007   #101
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
the game hasn't changed much since I was a kid and played ball in the 70's and 80's. The "blitz" in "zone blitz" is where the stand up guy rushes and "zone" in "zone blitz" is where the lineman drops back into a "zone".....it started in the 90's as a way to confuse blocking schemes. Guys like Carl Mecklinburg and lots of other Elephant techniques were used the same way in the 60's and 70's.
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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Actually, to be acurate, Bill " Wild Bill " Thompson The DC of Baytown Lee was using this "the zone blitz" way back to 1968. Stunted takcels and Ends with the Ends coreving the Flat. Drop NT sent the Mike...sent the Mike and NT and drop The DT. It's on film. Got a Picture out there some where of our RDT in the Flat covering the flat twenty five yards away from their end zone. a ball hitting him square in the chest and him dropping it against Aldine 1973.
If we are discussing the NFL, the zone blitz became popular in the 90's. Just like the RnS didn't become popular in the NFL till way after a bunch of College teams used it.
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Old 10-05-2007   #102
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Several folks in this thread have made a refinement on Vandermeer's general definition of bringing anyone but the DL to note the OLB's in a 3-4 have primary edge rushing responsibility so bringing them is not having them leave their primary responsibility and is not generally considered blitzing.
If there's any grey area, this is one of them.
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Old 10-05-2007   #103
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
the game hasn't changed much since I was a kid and played ball in the 70's and 80's. The "blitz" in "zone blitz" is where the stand up guy rushes and "zone" in "zone blitz" is where the lineman drops back into a "zone".....it started in the 90's as a way to confuse blocking schemes. Guys like Carl Mecklinburg and lots of other Elephant techniques were used the same way in the 60's and 70's.
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Originally Posted by real View Post
Elephant techniques...

first time I heard that one...

I like it though...
I'm old school....here is a nice read...

http://usctrojanfootballanalysis.blo...t-defense.html

Quote:
The base defense has been and still technically is a 4-3 under alignment scheme. 2006 was confusing for sports announcers and fans alike as Brian Cushing lined up in an upright stance and played a defensive end technique spot for most of the season. In zone blitz schemes not discussed here he even dropped back into coverage on some downs to play pass protection. That has been done with defensive ends however since Pete Carroll arrived at USC and is nothing new. We'll see if USC continues the use of Brian Cushing in the "Elephant" role in 2007 or if USC moves him back to a traditional SLB role. My guess is that with Dallas Sartz now gone to graduation Brian will move to the strong side linebacker spot. However that decision will probably depend upon the improvement of Kyle Moore and the development of incoming freshmen Everson Griffin. At least USC has the flexibility to use Brian Cushing at the stand up "Elephant" end position in the 4-3 under defense if needed. For more information on Pete Carroll's concepts on defense I'll post some of the speeches he gave at Nike clinics. That should further help to clarify any confusion.
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Old 10-05-2007   #104
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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If I play an A minor and call it a G diminished, I'm wrong. I can argue that it's a G dim all day but it's not a matter of perspective or a different point of view. (Now, I could play an A minor and say that it's a C Major 6 without the 5th and I could argue that. But G dim, no.)
Who cares what it is called as long as it sounds good.

The reason this is even being discussed is because whatever you want to call it, it isn't working consistently. If Kubiak said they blitzed the QB 27 times, well they sucked blitzing the QB against Atlanta.

Oh, I am sorry, I need to go start another thread to discuss that matter all togehter.

But, this whole thread was started because of what Andre said, and he brought it up for a reason besides just to debate what people consider to be a blitz.

Maybe this thread is really about people wanting to say Andre is a jerk and doesn't know crap about football. Because that is what this thread seems to really be about.
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Old 10-05-2007   #105
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post

Maybe this thread is really about people wanting to say Andre is a jerk and doesn't know crap about football. Because that is what this thread seems to really be about.
If some would slow down and listen to some of us older guys instead of trying to be brilliant re-defining the game out of their keysters, someone may learn a thing or two
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Old 10-05-2007   #106
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
Who cares what it is called as long as it sounds good.

The reason this is even being discussed is because whatever you want to call it, it isn't working consistently. If Kubiak said they blitzed the QB 27 times, well they sucked blitzing the QB against Atlanta.

Oh, I am sorry, I need to go start another thread to discuss that matter all togehter.

But, this whole thread was started because of what Andre said, and he brought it up for a reason besides just to debate what people consider to be a blitz.

Maybe this thread is really about people wanting to say Andre is a jerk and doesn't know crap about football. Because that is what this thread seems to really be about.


Well I wouldn't presume to tell andre ware how to run a veer offense that's for sure. I'm not dening AW's right to have his rice bowl filled. But I do think he should stick to his area of expertise.
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Old 10-05-2007   #107
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Well I wouldn't presume to tell andre ware how to run a veer offense that's for sure. I'm not dening AW's right to have his rice bowl filled. But I do think he should stick to his area of expertise.
A big part of running an offense is understanding the defensive scheme you are playing against.
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Old 10-05-2007   #108
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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I'm old school....here is a nice read...

http://usctrojanfootballanalysis.blo...t-defense.html
Nice Article...

Really informative....Especially the part where it breaks down the Dallas 3-4 vs. USC's 4-3 with a stand-up DE...

It also goes to show the different terminology for these kind of "mixed breed" positions...When I played in college we had a Safety/OLB hybrid that we called a Joker....I have seen that defensive front before, but I never heard the term "elephant"...learned something new...
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Old 10-05-2007   #109
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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A big part of running an offense is understanding the defensive scheme you are playing against.
Too easy.
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Old 10-05-2007   #110
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
If some of you would slow down and listen to some of us older guys instead of trying to be brilliant re-defining the game out of your keysters, you may learn a thing or two
I am not trying to redefine anything. My very first post in this thread I stated first that this is an exellent topic to discuss the nuasances and meaning of the term "blitz". I had a pretty good idea it was going to down this way.

I understand where you guys are coming from and I don't think you guys are wrong. How many times have I said that?

It's a matter of general terminology and the training someone received while playing the game years ago.

To some people, the term blitz is very generic, which means it could be almost any defensive maneuver during a pass play. Or, it could be something very specific as described by Andre.

Either way, the Texans have problems with whatever you want to call it. Which is what Andre was probably trying to say but got sidetracked similar to how this thread is.

I enjoy threads like this anyway. I don't care what you guys say or think about me, you guys are ok!
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Old 10-05-2007   #111
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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A big part of running an offense is understanding the defensive scheme you are playing against.
Well don't know about AW, but there were a lot of befuddled QBs when REL baytown went against them in the 60's and early 70's. We loved playing the veer. Anything that had a spread to it was DOA. We didn't care what they did with the fake we were taught to beat the gap and get to the ball. and admister as much damage as we could when we got there.
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Old 10-05-2007   #112
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I'm old school....here is a nice read...

http://usctrojanfootballanalysis.blo...t-defense.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by real View Post
Nice Article...

Really informative....Especially the part where it breaks down the Dallas 3-4 vs. USC's 4-3 with a stand-up DE...

It also goes to show the different terminology for these kind of "mixed breed" positions...When I played in college we had a Safety/OLB hybrid that we called a Joker....I have seen that defensive front before, but I never heard the term "elephant"...learned something new...
outside of some of the chronic emotional crud that infests forums, this is a great place to learn a thing or two about the game. I learn quite a bit from some of the better posters here and it helps me enjoy the game more. Sometimes a message board can give me nothing but headaches but once I learned to spot the guys who know what they are talking about I tend to tune out the "noise" that tends infests all mb's.

This hasn't been all that bad a thread once you pick out some of the dumb stuff.
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Old 10-05-2007   #113
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
I am not trying to redefine anything. My very first post in this thread I stated first that this is an exellent topic to discuss the nuasances and meaning of the term "blitz". I had a pretty good idea it was going to down this way.

I understand where you guys are coming from and I don't think you guys are wrong. How many times have I said that?

It's a matter of general terminology and the training someone received while playing the game years ago.

To some people, the term blitz is very generic, which means it could be almost any defensive maneuver during a pass play. Or, it could be something very specific as described by Andre.

Either way, the Texans have problems with whatever you want to call it. Which is what Andre was probably trying to say but got sidetracked similar to how this thread is.

I enjoy threads like this anyway. I don't care what you guys say or think about me, you guys are ok!
Off topic: Are you the one that called 610 this morning and told Marc he shouldn't have questioned Andre yesterday because of the experience that Andre has?

If so, I feel sorry for you.

If not, sorry nevermind
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Old 10-05-2007   #114
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
But, this whole thread was started because of what Andre said, and he brought it up for a reason besides just to debate what people consider to be a blitz.

Maybe this thread is really about people wanting to say Andre is a jerk and doesn't know crap about football. Because that is what this thread seems to really be about.
Actually the fight was entirely about how to define blitz and Andre got his knickers in a twist that his word was not being accepted carte blanche by Vandermeer.
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Old 10-05-2007   #115
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
Who cares what it is called as long as it sounds good.

The reason this is even being discussed is because whatever you want to call it, it isn't working consistently. If Kubiak said they blitzed the QB 27 times, well they sucked blitzing the QB against Atlanta.

Oh, I am sorry, I need to go start another thread to discuss that matter all togehter.

But, this whole thread was started because of what Andre said, and he brought it up for a reason besides just to debate what people consider to be a blitz.

Maybe this thread is really about people wanting to say Andre is a jerk and doesn't know crap about football. Because that is what this thread seems to really be about.
If I call an A minor chord a G diminished and then I go to play with someone and tell them to play a G diminished, then we're going to have a problem if I'm playing an A minor. If we aren't using words to mean the same things, then we're going to miscommunicate and misunderstand each other.

It's like the word "stunt". That applies to some very specific things that linemen and linebackers do. The word has other, non-football definitions that can make it confusing if you're talking about football and then use the word in a non-football context.

I find it very odd that Andre would have this off-the-wall definition of blitz in his mind. I have no problem with Andre but I think he's seriously wrong about this. And like I said, I don't think it's a matter of perspective or context.

And most blitzes don't get to the QB. And, yes, our blitzes were sucking. We are not normally a blitzing team. Harrington has a history of getting rattled when blitzed so we tried blitzing him but since we're not normally a blitzing team, we sucked at it. The best blitz was when Demeco came free right up the middle for the sack. But... according to Andre's definition, that probably wasn't even a blitz. I think we were bringing the 4 down linemen and the MLB on that play... and they had at least 5 linemen in to block and possibly the RB, too. According to almost every else in the world, that's a blitz.
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Old 10-05-2007   #116
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
Off topic: Are you the one that called 610 this morning and told Marc he shouldn't have questioned Andre yesterday because of the experience that Andre has?

If so, I feel sorry for you.

If not, sorry nevermind
No, I didn't call in to Marc and say that. I wouldn't say that anyway.

Have you read any of my posts? I have never said to anyone in this thread that they are wrong because of broadly defining the term blitz. I love to listen to Marc and Andre during the games, I think they are great team! Geez, reading comprehension skills please? Talk about taking a thread off topic.

While we are doing that...

You never need to feel sorry for me, pray for me, or do anything else for that matter but treat with respect like anyone else.

I'll make my mistakes and/or got to hell regardless of what any human being says, prays, or thinks about me.

The self-rigtheousness people do is amazing...

No, let's get back to the topic...
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Old 10-05-2007   #117
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
If I call an A minor chord a G diminished and then I go to play with someone and tell them to play a G diminished, then we're going to have a problem if I'm playing an A minor. If we aren't using words to mean the same things, then we're going to miscommunicate and misunderstand each other.
The people I play with, we don't get into that.

This is how it goes:

Does it sound kick ass?

Regardless of the answer.

Where is the beer at?
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Old 10-05-2007   #118
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
I could agrue that quote to Andre's point. Just because you call something a zone blitz, doesn't make it a blitz.

I don't have an issue with Kubiak, Marc, Andre, or any of you guys regarding this terminology.

You wanted a discussion regarding the nuasances of term "blitz" and I came to the table to show you guys a different perspective.

I was merely showing you a different perspective, which is the point of this thread and it appears you have an issue with that.

Well, let's just shut down the MB then. Because what is the point?

Starting another thread would be point less then.

Again, no thanks.
I have no problem in talking about different perspectives. Hence the reason for this thread to begin with. Andre and Marc provided the different perspectives, not you. That was clearly indicated in the first post of the thread.

But the Abe quote was directed at you because you were implying that our head coach was erroneously using a word to cover his ass and do some kind of politician maneuver.

I think that particular take is a load of horse crap, because 1) that's not Kubiak's style, and 2) it is clear that his use of the word "blitz" could be considered normal by the way modern NFL has defined it.

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Actually the fight was entirely about how to define blitz and Andre got his knickers in a twist that his word was not being accepted carte blanche by Vandermeer.
Thank you. Nail on the head.
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Old 10-05-2007   #119
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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No, I didn't call in to Marc and say that. I wouldn't say that anyway.

Have you read any of my posts? I have never said to anyone in this thread that they are wrong because of broadly defining the term blitz. I love to listen to Marc and Andre during the games, I think they are great team! Geez, reading comprehension skills please? Talk about taking a thread off topic.

While we are doing that...

You never need to feel sorry for me, pray for me, or do anything else for that matter but treat with respect like anyone else.

I'll make my mistakes and/or got to hell regardless of what any human being says, prays, or thinks about me.

The self-rigtheousness people do is amazing...

No, let's get back to the topic...
I said it was off topic and it was only a question. There's no need to bust out in a tantrum.

What topic? I know what a blitz is. Many members have made nice educated posts about "a blitz", but you continue to rant on about people having different perceptions of the term.

If you played the game, you should know what a blitz is.

If you never played the game and do not know what a blitz is, then read every post in this thread except yours.

Good Day!
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Old 10-05-2007   #120
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
The people I play with, we don't get into that.

This is how it goes:

Does it sound kick ass?

Regardless of the answer.

Where is the beer at?
And what if you asked someone where the beer is at, and for them left is right and right is left and you try to follow their directions and end up locked out of the rehearsal studio with no beer and no band? Or if you ask someone for the beer and to them "beer" means "motor oil" and you end up chugging 10W-30?
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