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Old 10-05-2007   #61
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

Out of the "27" blitzes, how many were run blitzes? Not every blitz is designed "for getting to the QB". I would bet there were several that weren't recognizable by watching TV.

I'm not going to go into detail over this, but I believe "The Voice" was correct.
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Old 10-05-2007   #62
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulip View Post
I heard this heated exchange when I was a few minutes from work yesterday, so I looked it up on Wikipedia as soon as I arrived to see what conventional wisdom says.

This was an interesting section of the entry, which I captured maybe 15 minutes after the argument and sent to my carpool buddy via e-mail:



That makes sense to me that blitz has become somewhat of a generic term for any extra pressure. It's shorthand.
From Football 101:
http://www.4malamute.com/definitions101.html
"Blitz

The linebackers and defensive backs keep their hands off the ground, although a hand may need a “wipe” during the game (see USA’s “Monk” TV series for the definition of obsessive-compulsive behavior).
When a linebacker(s) and/or defensive back(s) joins the defensive linemen in rushing the quarterback, it is called a blitz. One, two, three, or four of them may blitz the quarterback, overwhelming the offensive linemen. Cagey quarterbacks look for blitzes, anticipating vacant areas to throw to, maybe to a "hot receiver," such as the tight end."
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Old 10-05-2007   #63
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

I really don't see Kubiak as the kind of coach that will say..."yeah we blitzed 27 times", and it not be true...atleast in "his perspective"....
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Old 10-05-2007   #64
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by Porky View Post
I always defined it as when a player who normally doesn't rush the QB, does rush. In a 4-3, this means the LB's and/or DB's.

In a 3/4, OLB's also double as down lineman on pass plays, so I would not consider those players as blitzing players. But, if an ILB or DB rushed, then I would consider that a blitz.

That's the way I see it, and in this case I would side with the defintion given by Marc Vandemeer.
I'm with you. Sending more than four people and exposing the back seven constitutes a blitz to me. I think the QB should stick to the things he knows something about. Next time we need an expert opinion on running the spread and busting out in the NFL Andre Ware is your guy.
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Old 10-05-2007   #65
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
You're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

What if Kubiak's perspective is defining a blitz as anyone not a lineman coming in? You take underhanded swipes at the head coach while failing to apply the logic you mentioned in the same post.

If it's a "matter of perspective" and nobody is "wrong", then how can you fault Kubiak and equate him to a worthless politician?
Look, Kubiak is trying to handle a tense situation regardless of how you feel about the term "blitz".

Kubiak is a man just like anyone else. If a family member or friend of mine starts blowing stuff out of their A hole, I call them on it. It doesn't mean I think they are worthless or any less of a person that I knew before they made the statement. We are all human.

Overall, I think Kubiak is doing a good job. He is dancin' on glass regarding this topic and I prefer that he not. But, please understand I don't think any less of him as a coach if he does. He is dealing with a tense situation right now considering the investment on the defensive line and I am just calling it like I see it.
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Old 10-05-2007   #66
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

HT, you are not answering my point: What if Kubiak considers those plays "blitzes" as his perspective? There is no politician speak. He is calling it like he sees it (i.e. "perspective").

The overwhelming majority of people define "blitz" the same way. Guess we're all guilting of politispeak, as well?
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Old 10-05-2007   #67
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
Again, like I said, you are going to have to look at what someone's perspective is. I bet, Andre had a coach in high school or maybe someone at UH that defined it this way.

For the record, I am not saying anyone is wrong. It's a matter of perspective and how you were trained!
I agree with this.

Though he is still wrong IMHO, I do agree with the point you are making here.



And I could actually see why someone would have taught him that way...

As a QB you need to know when a blitzing DB or LB will be coming in free because there won't be enough blockers to pick it up, so the clock in your head needs to be faster.....The coach may have broke it down to him as saying something like "if we have 6 guys in to block, and they bring 6 don't look at the play as a blitz because since we have enough guys to pick up the extra pressure you should have a little more time to make a read"

Basically, the coach probably didn't want the term "blitz" to get the QB frazzled...Basically saying that even if you see a LB coming don't go crazy on me and get flustered...Just relax and make your read...In fact we won't even call that a blitz...We'll just say they are bringing some extra pressure...

But yeah, I could definitely see some unorthodox coach saying a blitz is only a blitz when they bring more than we can block...

Last edited by real; 10-05-2007 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 10-05-2007   #68
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
You think there weren't left tackles and defensive ends 50 years ago?
The qualities and skills looked for in a successful left tackle and defensive end have change dramatically in the last 25 years or so.

The terminology has stayed the same, but the way the game has played has progressed significantly.
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Old 10-05-2007   #69
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Cool Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
never use wikipedia - anyone change make it say whatever they want
HUH?

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Old 10-05-2007   #70
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
The qualities and skills looked for in a successful left tackle and defensive end have change dramatically in the last 25 years or so.

The terminology has stayed the same, but the way the game has played has progressed significantly.
good lord....give it up. I've been watching the game for 25 years and I even played it 25 years ago. It's essentially the same game.
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Old 10-05-2007   #71
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
HT, you are not answering my point: What if Kubiak considers those plays "blitzes" as his perspective? There is no politician speak. He is calling it like he sees it (i.e. "perspective").

The overwhelming majority of people define "blitz" the same way. Guess we're all guilting of politispeak, as well?
I didn't hear the exchange. But, I listen to the Marc and Andre on Sundays and listen to post game on 610 on the Internet.

From your explanation and Andre's heated exchange with Marc, then taking into consideration listening to other radio shows, I gather that Kubiak was saying they are going after the QB and validating his point by saying they blitzed 27 times.

I guess maybe this discussion should really be about getting real heat and pressure on the QB regardless of how the term the "blitz" is defined.

Look, I like Kubiak, Marc, and Andre. I don't want anyone of them to go anywhere.

I just see things a little differently. As for Kubiak, I don't care what you define as a blitz, the Texans need to start getting some serious pressure on the QB when they are playing lower tier QBs that throw to marginal WRs.

This whole thread is about some arcane terminology and there is no discussion about the problem at hand.

Can we at least agree there is a problem getting to the QB?
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Old 10-05-2007   #72
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I like Ware, but if he's adhering to the definition set forth in the original post, then he's wrong. We can throw semantics at it all day and discuss the different possible meanings, and that's fun, but Ware is wrong.
Actually no, I think in the true nature of a blitz you have to look at assignments and what they call "covering a rusher" . It really doesnt matter how many are on either line because the QB or the defensive playcaller {usually the safety or the MLB } can change assignments at any time. Let say the offesnse is in a 3 wide single back set, with a tight end on the right. that would mean 5 guys across on the offense. The defense is running a base 4-3 wich would have 4 lineman. so right off the bat, the offense outnumbers the defense on the line. Now the defense can either play a linebacker or DB away from the line to cover the TE or they can actully put them on the line. but wait, just like we dont know if the defense lined up on the line are rushing or covering, we also dont know if the TE is blocking or going on a pass route. but regardless if we assign the LB on the TE to blitz the QB it's his assignment that decides if its a blitz or not, if the TE goes on a pattern or if he stays and blocks really changes nothing as far as if it's a blitz or not. Its an assignment question. 4 d-lineman allways rush, if your are not a down lineman and you are assigned to rush the QB its a blitz. they offense can allways change their assignments too, and go with what is called "Max Protect" wich means the every offensive player in the blox including all RB's changes their assignments from pass routes to blocking incomming rushers. Anyway I ramble. I hope I cleared up something for someone.
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Old 10-05-2007   #73
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post

Can we at least agree there is a problem getting to the QB?
yeah, we aren't getting regular pressure unless we blitz.
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Old 10-05-2007   #74
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
You're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

What if Kubiak's perspective is defining a blitz as anyone not a lineman coming in? You take underhanded swipes at the head coach while failing to apply the logic you mentioned in the same post.

If it's a "matter of perspective" and nobody is "wrong", then how can you fault Kubiak and equate him to a worthless politician?
Exactly. It's silly to play the I have a different definition so that makes you a liar game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
It's a confusing statement and isn't honest regarding the overall issue of putting heat on the QB.
Isn't honest? Can you not see the difference between the goal of a play and whether or not the play or call succeeds? For whatever reasons, a QB could attempt 20 passes and have 0 completions. That wouldn't mean the coach was being dishonest if he said we called 20 passing plays. Same thing here--they called 27 blitzes--doesn't mean he is lying if they don't get 27 sacks.

FYI--the Texans are tied for 14th in number of sacks. No that doesn't adequately measure pressure, but it isn't the doghouse of the NFL like it was under Capers where they entered the 2nd half of the season with 6 sacks.
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Old 10-05-2007   #75
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
The qualities and skills looked for in a successful left tackle and defensive end have change dramatically in the last 25 years or so.

The terminology has stayed the same, but the way the game has played has progressed significantly.
Terminology has progressed as schemes have gotten more and more advanced. But the rudiments are still the same.

You don't change the meaning of the word "blitz" because guys are bigger, faster, and stronger.

A linebacker is still a linebacker with the same basic responsibilities that linebackers had 50 years ago. A left tackle is still a left tackle with the same basic responsibilities that he had 40 years ago. Their reads and what they do in different situations have changed as offenses and defense have gotten more complicated.

There were speed rushers 40 years ago and the left tackle still had to protect the QB's blind side 40 years ago.
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Old 10-05-2007   #76
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Isn't honest? Can you not see the difference between the goal of a play and whether or not the play or call succeeds?
Yes, but can you understand that someone can play with terminology to keep them from being on the hot seat? Furthermore, that doesn't make Kubiak any less of a man or a coach if he does that.

I think he is doing a fine job!

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
For whatever reasons, a QB could attempt 20 passes and have 0 completions. That wouldn't mean the coach was being dishonest if he said we called 20 passing plays.
Do you really want to use that example? David Carr tied the record for most consecutive completed passes. How legit of a record do you think that is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Same thing here--they called 27 blitzes--doesn't mean he is lying if they don't get 27 sacks.
As with the Carr situation, results are what matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
FYI--the Texans are tied for 14th in number of sacks. No that doesn't adequately measure pressure, but it isn't the doghouse of the NFL like it was under Capers where they entered the 2nd half of the season with 6 sacks.
I believe the issue is significant meaningful pressure over the course of the entire game. The front four is inconsistent. Which is really the reason why this thread exists in my opinion.
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Old 10-05-2007   #77
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Terminology has progressed as schemes have gotten more and more advanced. But the rudiments are still the same.

You don't change the meaning of the word "blitz" because guys are bigger, faster, and stronger.

A linebacker is still a linebacker with the same basic responsibilities that linebackers had 50 years ago. A left tackle is still a left tackle with the same basic responsibilities that he had 40 years ago. Their reads and what they do in different situations have changed as offenses and defense have gotten more complicated.

There were speed rushers 40 years ago and the left tackle still had to protect the QB's blind side 40 years ago.

40 years ago, defensive lineman were not dropping back in coverage.

I take issue with a scheme that drops a defensive lineman in coverage and rushes a LB instead and call that a blitz.

It seems like you guys want to call that a blitz. Which is fine by me, there are different perspectives on the use of the term. I just wouldn't call it a blitz if I was the coach.
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Old 10-05-2007   #78
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
40 years ago, defensive lineman were not dropping back in coverage.

I take issue with a scheme that drops a defensive lineman in coverage and rushes a LB instead and call that a blitz.

It seems like you guys want to call that a blitz. Which is fine by me, there are different perspectives on the use of the term. I just wouldn't call it a blitz if I was the coach.
That's known as a "zone blitz" and what you are doing is "blitzing" a guy who is usually in a coverage technique. If the man is generally in coverage and rushes the passer...he is blitzing.
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Old 10-05-2007   #79
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
That's known as a "zone blitz" and what you are doing is "blitzing" a guy who is usually in a coverage technique. If the man is generally in coverage and rushes the passer...he is blitzing.
Agreed, but it is a relatively recent qualification of an already existing term.

Which brings me back to Pencil Neck, the game has changed.

I am not saying you guys are wrong.

There are coaches that view terminology different. Which is probably why Andre brought the point up in the first place and the use of the context in a convesation.
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Old 10-05-2007   #80
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
Yes, but can you understand that someone can play with terminology to keep them from being on the hot seat? Furthermore, that doesn't make Kubiak any less of a man or a coach if he does that.
It does if you insult his honesty. Unless you can come up with a prior instance in which Kubiak used a different definition for blitz then there is zero merit to your accusation. By my recollection he has always differentiated front four plays and blitzes.

Quote:
Do you really want to use that example? David Carr tied the record for most consecutive completed passes. How legit of a record do you think that is?
Facts are facts and you are just trying to twist the example to the absurd. 20 passing plays are 20 passing plays regardless of the result. 23 completions in a row are 23 completions in a row period. How impressive that fact is, is a totally different discussion and regardless of anyone's opinion, the fact remains so it isn't dishonest to say it.

Quote:
Which is really the reason why this thread exists in my opinion.
Yeah, that must be why the guy who started the thread titled it inconsistency by the D-Line.
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