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Old 10-04-2007   #41
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I'd call that a blitz because according to my understanding of it, it's not about numbers. If a DB is coming, it's a blitz. If a LB is coming, it's a blitz. If a lineman is falling back into coverage and a LB is coming, it's still a blitz because he's not a down linemen.

I don't think the concept of trying to confuse blocking schemes needs to be taken into account at all. It's not that complicated. And I don't think the term is overused because it's still an accurate description of what's happening when an LB or DB is coming and trying to shoot a gap and get penetration. Whether that's to tackle the QB or the RB.
Like I said, the game has changed so much since that term was coined.

My opinion, what's the point of calling a play a blitz if all you have to do is send one LB or DB in addition to the four down lineman on a 4-3. Let's just get rid of the term in my opinion.

I didn't hear the conversation in context. If Kubiak said they blitzed 27 times, meaning they made a concerted effort to hit the QB, then what is the meaning of the term blitz? Because the term blitz means we are going to go after the QB with abandon and leave the defensive secondary exposed.

As I said, the game has changed so much that it's really an old term that it is hard to apply to today's game.

My opinion, in the spirit of the invention of the defensive scheme called the "blitz", I don't think just sending 1 DB or LB would qualify as a blitz.

Either way, the defense has a problem getting to the QB and really are not making a concerted effort. Meanwhile, Kubiak wants to say they went after the QB 27 times using a blitz against Atlanta. It's misleading regardless of the agruement of the term of the definition of the term the "blitz". Which was probably Andre's point.
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Old 10-04-2007   #42
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by real View Post
D-lines run stunts....There can be a LB or DB directly involved with that D-linemans stunt, but that LB or DB is still blitzing....not stunting...

Get it?

The whole thing together is called a "stunt"...But the term for what the D-lineman is doing is called stunting and that LB or DB is blitzing, but are involved with the stunt...

If you combine the two then you would say: "hey they ran a stunt. The LB blitzed a gap and the DE stunted around him"...




It doesn't matter if they drop all four D-lineman and one lonely CB rushes the passer...

That corner is still blitzing...

Please don't let Andre Ware confuse you..
Whatever, these terms were developed well before the game changed over the last 20 years or so.

Which means you are using old terminology to fit a new game.

GET IT????

I am not saying anyone is wrong. You guys are like old women arguing over curtains or drapes. What matters is your perspective.

Bottom line, the Texans have a hard time putting pressure on the QB outside of the 4 down linemen. Which means, if you wanna call it a "blitz", IT STILL SUCKS!

Don't let Kubiak confuse you that they blitzed 27 times and they are going after the QB.

DO YOU GET THAT?????
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Old 10-04-2007   #43
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

I'm pretty sure Al Gore invented the Blitz.
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Old 10-04-2007   #44
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by real View Post
In a 3-4, like Spec said, you normally are going to have atleast one of those OLB's if not both rushing on every down...

Watch the Cowboys play...

Normally they are going to be up on the line of scrimmage also...

Those guys have special roles so it's kind of hard and just a kind of situational thing as to whether you would truly say that an OLB in the 3-4 "blitzed"...

Most of the time you would just say "they came on that one"...

OLB's in a 3-4 are essentially D-lineman that have a little more athletic ability and can move a little bit in space...

It is almost a 5 man front versus a 4 man line, in a 3-4 compared to a 4-3.
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Old 10-04-2007   #45
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
What is the purpose of a stunt?

To confuse the blocking scheme.

Take a step back and look at the objective.

You are looking at a stunt too literally.

Bottom line, the Texans didn't blitz 27 times against the Falcons. Kubiak sounds like a politician playing with budget numbers.
I'm not looking at a stunt too literally....you are just confused with the terms. It's harder to see a run blitz because they aren't after the QB...run blitzes are when a linebacker or a S shoots gaps inside to take away every gap....he was talking about pass and run blitzing. The danger in a run blitz is no support at the second level. When you run blitz you better get every gap covered because you take away most of your safety net once the back breaks the line of scrimmage.

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In a 3-4 your OLB's are not normally looked at as "blitzers" when they rush the QB....
correct....in a 4-3 the DE's are your primary edge rushers. In a 3-4 your OLB's are your primary edge rushers...they just work in space like a linebacker and have more diverse responsibilities.....one reason the 3-4 is harder to stock than a 4-3
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Old 10-04-2007   #46
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

never use wikipedia - anyone change make it say whatever they want
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Old 10-04-2007   #47
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
Whatever, these terms were developed well before the game changed over the last 20 years or so.

Which means you are using old terminology to fit a new game.

GET IT????

I am not saying anyone is wrong. You guys are like old women arguing over curtains or drapes. What matters is your perspective.

Bottom line, the Texans have a hard time putting pressure on the QB outside of the 4 down linemen. Which means, if you wanna call it a "blitz", IT STILL SUCKS!

Don't let Kubiak confuse you that they blitzed 27 times and they are going after the QB.

DO YOU GET THAT?????
You're guessing...and reaching...and losing it....
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Old 10-05-2007   #48
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

I like Ware, but if he's adhering to the definition set forth in the original post, then he's wrong. We can throw semantics at it all day and discuss the different possible meanings, and that's fun, but Ware is wrong.
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Old 10-05-2007   #49
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
Like I said, the game has changed so much since that term was coined.

My opinion, what's the point of calling a play a blitz if all you have to do is send one LB or DB in addition to the four down lineman on a 4-3. Let's just get rid of the term in my opinion.

I didn't hear the conversation in context. If Kubiak said they blitzed 27 times, meaning they made a concerted effort to hit the QB, then what is the meaning of the term blitz? Because the term blitz means we are going to go after the QB with abandon and leave the defensive secondary exposed.

As I said, the game has changed so much that it's really an old term that it is hard to apply to today's game.

My opinion, in the spirit of the invention of the defensive scheme called the "blitz", I don't think just sending 1 DB or LB would qualify as a blitz.

Either way, the defense has a problem getting to the QB and really are not making a concerted effort. Meanwhile, Kubiak wants to say they went after the QB 27 times using a blitz against Atlanta. It's misleading regardless of the agruement of the term of the definition of the term the "blitz". Which was probably Andre's point.

Huh?

I don't understand what you're saying. What's misleading about the term? What's changed in the past 50 years that has changed the meaning or purpose of the word? 50 years ago it meant that you were sending an LB or a DB and now it means exactly the same thing. The purpose of those positions haven't changed. Nothing has changed.

Back in the 50's and 60's, teams were mostly running 4-3 defenses and if you were sending a corner or a safety or a LB, it was just like today. It was a blitz. There were teams playing 3-4 in the 60's and 70's just like today. (There were probably more 3-4 teams in the late 70's than today.) You probably would see more 5-2 defenses in the 60's and less nickle and dime packages but all that stuff has been done in one way or another since those times. Zone defenses (to the best of my knowledge) developed in the 60's. Zone blitzes developed in the late 80's because prior to that, you only ran man to man coverage while you blitzed.

Nothing major has changed. Just minor tweaks and minor accretions over the years.

If Kubiak said they blitzed 27 times then we should be able to look at the plays and see 27 times that 1 or more LB's/DB's were sent. In the KC game, I went through and counted the blitzes and iirc, I saw 1 blitz on a pass play (and 2-3 on run plays). I think we brought a blitz 1 or 2 times during the Panther game. I doubt we blitzed at all during the Colt game. During the Falcon game, we were blitzing left and right but I didn't bother to count.

One of the problems with our blitzes during the Falcons game is that most of them didn't bring much pressure. Although that blitz by Demeco where he got the sack was a thing of beauty.
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Old 10-05-2007   #50
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
Whatever, these terms were developed well before the game changed over the last 20 years or so.

Which means you are using old terminology to fit a new game.

GET IT????

I am not saying anyone is wrong. You guys are like old women arguing over curtains or drapes. What matters is your perspective.

Bottom line, the Texans have a hard time putting pressure on the QB outside of the 4 down linemen. Which means, if you wanna call it a "blitz", IT STILL SUCKS!

Don't let Kubiak confuse you that they blitzed 27 times and they are going after the QB.

DO YOU GET THAT?????
I think you're confused. And I don't mean that in an argumentative way or anything.

Although the purpose of the blitz is usually to get pressure on the QB, most blitzes don't even get to the QB. If the offense reads the blitz correctly, they can reassign blockers to pick it up. They may have one or more players forego going into a pass pattern so that they can stay home and block or they can designate certain guys as hot reads. Sometimes if you've got a hot read, you may even let some guy come in un-blocked on purpose. We did that on AJ's 30 yard TD against the Panthers.

But your belief that the meanings of these words have changed over time and don't apply to the "new" game of today is flat out wrong. The words haven't changed. Their meanings haven't changed. And the game hasn't changed.
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Old 10-05-2007   #51
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

I thought it was some kind of drink.
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Old 10-05-2007   #52
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
I didn't hear the conversation in context. If Kubiak said they blitzed 27 times, meaning they made a concerted effort to hit the QB, then what is the meaning of the term blitz? Because the term blitz means we are going to go after the QB with abandon and leave the defensive secondary exposed.
I'd say Kubiak doesn't accept your definition and has made pretty clear that there are two types of plays in his mind--bringing pressure with the front 4 and blitzing, which conforms to the definition of blitz Vinny and others have mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
You guys are like old women arguing over curtains or drapes. What matters is your perspective.

Don't let Kubiak confuse you that they blitzed 27 times and they are going after the QB.

DO YOU GET THAT?????
This is a perfect example of why it matters for people to have a common definition for a conversation to make sense. Kubiak isn't confusing anyone who understands his definition of blitz--he is saying on 27 plays, they brought someone other than the DL away from their normal duties.

If you are all into changes in the game then get with the program and realize Ware is 100% wrong on the current use of blitz even if there is some historical basis for his definition. On any sunday you will hear commentators (both pundits and former players) talk for example about a single LB coming on a delayed pass rush as a blitz. According to Andre, a single LB can never blitz.
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Old 10-05-2007   #53
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
never use wikipedia - anyone change make it say whatever they want
I heard this heated exchange when I was a few minutes from work yesterday, so I looked it up on Wikipedia as soon as I arrived to see what conventional wisdom says.

This was an interesting section of the entry, which I captured maybe 15 minutes after the argument and sent to my carpool buddy via e-mail:

Quote:
There is some confusion among average fans as to what constitutes a blitz. Blitz is colloquially used to describe any time a linebacker or defensive back crosses the line of scrimmage when in actuality, a blitz is defined as the defense rushing the quarterback with more men than the offense has accounted for and can block. For example, when the defense rushes 5 men against the offense's 5 blockers, the defensive attack is not a blitz. For the defensive scheme to be a blitz in this instance, the defense would have to rush 6 to the offense's 5.
That makes sense to me that blitz has become somewhat of a generic term for any extra pressure. It's shorthand.
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Old 10-05-2007   #54
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by caddy View Post
Blitzer was one of Santa's raindeer.
It was Blitzen.
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Old 10-05-2007   #55
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
according to Andre Ware, a blitz is just like "offsides" in soccer...
andre ware is a mensa genius.
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Old 10-05-2007   #56
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

I used to think it was when YKW ran into somebody.
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Old 10-05-2007   #57
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
never use wikipedia - anyone change make it say whatever they want
no they can't.
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Old 10-05-2007   #58
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
And the game hasn't changed.
The NFL game hasn't changed in the last 30 to 40 years?

What about the West Coast Offense? What about speed rushers and the left tacke position? I guess those example aren't changes in the way the game is played?

Again, like I said, you are going to have to look at what someone's perspective is. I bet, Andre had a coach in high school or maybe someone at UH that defined it this way.

For some of you to think that all defensive coordinators agree on the exact definintion of a generic term is laugable.

For the record, I am not saying anyone is wrong. It's a matter of perspective and how you were trained!

The bigger point of this whole thing and the reason why Andre got upset, as I understand it and I didn't hear the show, is Kubiak said they blitzed 27 times. Meaning, they are going after the QB. Kubiak making that statement is like a politician defending his voting record. It's a confusing statement and isn't honest regarding the overall issue of putting heat on the QB.
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Old 10-05-2007   #59
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
Again, like I said, you are going to have to look at what someone's perspective is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
The bigger point of this whole thing and the reason why Andre got upset, as I understand it and I didn't hear the show, is Kubiak said they blitzed 27 times. Meaning, they are going after the QB. Kubiak making that statement is like a politician defending his voting record. It's a confusing statement and isn't honest regarding the overall issue of putting heat on the QB.
You're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

What if Kubiak's perspective is defining a blitz as anyone not a lineman coming in? You take underhanded swipes at the head coach while failing to apply the logic you mentioned in the same post.

If it's a "matter of perspective" and nobody is "wrong", then how can you fault Kubiak and equate him to a worthless politician?
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Old 10-05-2007   #60
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Default Re: Define 'blitz'

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
The NFL game hasn't changed in the last 30 to 40 years?

What about the West Coast Offense? What about speed rushers and the left tacke position? I guess those example aren't changes in the way the game is played?
No.

They aren't. Not from an essential standpoint.

You think there weren't left tackles and defensive ends 50 years ago? Do you think there weren't short passes and yac before the West Coast Offense? What do you think the West Coast Offense changed?

The West Coast Offense took things that were being done and put them together in a new way. It didn't change the game from the standpoint of what things are. A pass is still a pass. A linebacker is still a linebacker.

What Walsh did was to take the things he had learned from other coaches and put them together. He changed the way receivers ran routes and he changed the emphasis of certain things.

If you want to get into a term that has changed over time, then it's West Coast Offense. Not Blitz.
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