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Thoughts on why Okoye is our Sack leader ?

N

nunusguy

Hall of Fame
I think its a fair question, and not because he's a 20-year-old rookie, but because he's playing on the inside of the DLine as DTs do in the 4-3 and not on the edge where DEs do who are usually a teams sack leaders.
Is it just too early in the season to reach conclusions, or maybe he's just that good, maybe more than even his biggest supporters expected ?
Or maybe he's benefiting more from playing next to Mario than Mario is from playing next to him ?
Or maybe Mario and strongside DE Weaver just aren't contibuting as much as we'd expect them to ?
 
Said it a long time ago and I'll say it again. Amobi is our best pass rusher.
 
He is in a good spot. We have a very good Dline, and there is just too many people to block. Add Okoye's athletism, and there's your answer.
 
nunusguy said:
I think its a fair question, and not because he's a 20-year-old rookie, but because he's playing on the inside of the DLine as DTs do in the 4-3 and not on the edge where DEs do who are usually a teams sack leaders.
Is it just too early in the season to reach conclusions, or maybe he's just that good, maybe more than even his biggest supporters expected ?
Or maybe he's benefiting more from playing next to Mario than Mario is from playing next to him ?
Or maybe Mario and strongside DE Weaver just aren't contibuting as much as we'd expect them to ?
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Probably cause our ends aren't good pass rushers and Okoye has a good motor and doesn't give up on plays...many inside sacks come from persistence. He's living up to his billing...Mario isn't.
 
I think they all feed off each other. I don't care who gets the sack as long as they get it. I just want the DL to work as a team and so far they've done the job.

I don't care about stats, I want to see results and the DL's been stuffing the run so I'm happy. I would like to see TJ in the back field more but I do see MW playing with intensity which I think is what's helping Amobi get some sacks. Kid's putting up monster numbers for a DT though. I can't imagine what he'll do in 5 or so years, he'll be a monster.
 
nunusguy said:
I think its a fair question, and not because he's a 20-year-old rookie, but because he's playing on the inside of the DLine as DTs do in the 4-3 and not on the edge where DEs do who are usually a teams sack leaders.
Is it just too early in the season to reach conclusions, or maybe he's just that good, maybe more than even his biggest supporters expected ?
Or maybe he's benefiting more from playing next to Mario than Mario is from playing next to him ?
Or maybe Mario and strongside DE Weaver just aren't contibuting as much as we'd expect them to ?
Click to expand...

A little bit of everything. I don't think many people expected for Amobi to do as well as he has done thus far. Clearly having Mario on your team is giving him a little help. However, he has looked great so far and is already at 4 sacks, which is wonderful to see. Go Amobi!
 
Vinny said:
Probably cause our ends aren't good pass rushers and Okoye has a good motor and doesn't give up on plays...many inside sacks come from persistence. He's living up to his billing...Mario isn't.
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i would think it helps that he plays next to mario, mario drew double teams last year and we had no one on the inside to capitolize, great d-lines play off each other, sacks are overrated anyways, it's all about qb pressures, would you rather have your d-line post 1 sack in a game or have 8 qb pressures as a group?
 
I think it is because Okoye plays with high energy. He is also atheltic on the football field, as opposed to someplace like a track.
 
Runner said:
I think it is because Okoye plays with high energy...
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Bingo! A good motor will take you far in the NFL. I think he does benefit from having Mario there to some extent but the single biggest thing is his motor. He just won't be denied on some plays. If anything I think that someday, if Mario does end up with a respectable pile of sacks it may be because he plays beside Okoye and not the other way around.
 
One thing that did impress me w/ Okoye is that both his sacks last week as well as the one today all came on 3rd and about 10. He has a knack on making a good play when it counts. Keep this effort up and he could very well reach his goal of keeping the DROY award in Houston.
 
He's very good and is benefiting from having some good guys around him. Mario is still getting doubled which frees up Okoye
 
I think it diminishes Okoye's talent when you say he is getting sacks because of what someone else is doing.

Amobi is really good. He gets sacks because he is really good.

A lot of players have a high motor. A lot of players are quick.


Look at how Amobi deals with the interior linemen that try to block him. He has so many pass rushing moves it's ridiculous.

I think from a technical standpoint Amobi is way ahead of the game. He has good timing, good quickness, and he is pretty strong.

I'm not saying Mario or anyone else sucks by any means, but Amobi is getting sacks because of what he's doing....

Yeah a DE can make a QB step up...But not just any DT can be there and make the tackle when he does step up...
 
eriadoc said:
At least two of Okoye's sacks have come from the QB stepping up into the pocket to avoid Mario. Take from that what you will.
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That's what I've been seeing. The QB steps up to get away from Mario or N.D. and Amobi cleans up.

The non-stop motor he's got doesn't hurt
;o)
 
real said:
I think it diminishes Okoye's talent when you say he is getting sacks because of what someone else is doing.

Amobi is really good. He gets sacks because he is really good.

A lot of players have a high motor. A lot of players are quick.


Look at how Amobi deals with the interior linemen that try to block him. He has so many pass rushing moves it's ridiculous.

I think from a technical standpoint Amobi is way ahead of the game. He has good timing, good quickness, and he is pretty strong.

I'm not saying Mario or anyone else sucks by any means, but Amobi is getting sacks because of what he's doing....

Yeah a DE can make a QB step up...But not just any DT can be there and make the tackle when he does step up...
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Of course Amobi is getting sacks because of what he's doing, but if the QB is stepping up that means the ends are helping Amobi with whis sacks...just like Mario got a sack off someone else's work because he never gave up on a play.

The Dline works as a whole IMO, when everyone plays well than one or two linemen will benefit from it sack wise. Besides that Mario made some good plays stopping the run today and I think he didn't do bad.
 
Vinny said:
Probably cause our ends aren't good pass rushers and Okoye has a good motor and doesn't give up on plays...many inside sacks come from persistence. He's living up to his billing...Mario isn't.
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Probably has more to do with it being only week 4.
 
Amobi sack today came from TJ & Mario pressuring Harrington (TJ was the first one to get to him).

Mario was getting some pressure on Harrington today, and if he was a step quicker he wouldve gotten a sack or two today. Thats starting to become a cliche for Mario.
 
I really liked it when DeMeco came up, on that inside blitz.




alittle too late in this game but

If Smith would gamble more, Okoye could rack up even more tackles and sacks.


MArio over pursues a bit too much.
:bat:
 
Leahmic223 said:
Of course Amobi is getting sacks because of what he's doing, but if the QB is stepping up that means the ends are helping Amobi with whis sacks...
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You lost me right here...

Watch any kind of football game and QB's are always stepping up into the pocket to avoid pressure from the edge...Our DE's aren't doing anything special...

And again, I'm not saying our DE's suck...I'm just saying they aren't dominating to the point where you can credit them for someone elses success...

I just think it's diminishing how good the kid is when you say he's succeeding because of Mario...Especially since Mario hasn't done all that much...


He's leading all interior linemen in sacks...4 sacks in four games isn't accidental...Look for him to keep piling them on...
 
real said:
You lost me right here...

Watch any kind of football game and QB's are always stepping up into the pocket to avoid pressure from the edge...Our DE's aren't doing anything special...

And again, I'm not saying our DE's suck...I'm just saying they aren't dominating to the point where you can credit them for someone elses success...

I just think it's diminishing how good the kid is when you say he's succeeding because of Mario...Especially since Mario hasn't done all that much...


He's leading all interior linemen in sacks...4 sacks in four games isn't accidental...Look for him to keep piling them on...
Click to expand...


When did I say he was succeeding because of Mario. The first thing I said was Of course Amobi's getting sacks because of what he's doing, but you saying "Mario hasn't done all that much" contradicts that you are saying Mario isn't doing bad.

Apparantly that's what you think.

My point was that the dline plays as whole. Mario got a sack because of Travis in the Chiefs game.

As for the QB Stepping up its because the DEs are getting pressure. If it was the other way around he'd be rolling out wouldn't he from inside pressure? There really is no reason for him to step up if the DEs are on their back.

All in all, Mario is getting pressure, some people are never going to be happy if he doesn't get a sack a game, but I think he is playing well. Does he have flaws yeah but at the same time I just don't see the "He's not doing anything" he stopped the run on several different occasions. I am not going to just say Amobi owes it to Mario nor did I say that, I am saying the dline is a unit. There are not many good dlinemen that go out there and get sacks all by themselves. I am sitting here thinking and I can't do it.

Stroud and Henderson.
Freeney and Mathis
Vanden Bosch and Haynesworth
Osi and Strahan

Where is the single dline guy that just comes out and wrecks Olines by himself?
 
Leahmic223 said:
...
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I think Mario is averaging roughly about .28 sacks a game for his career. What other DE have you ever witnessed come into the NFL and put up such stats as Mario has and been labled or considered a force ? I think Mario is very good for what he is, but he hasn't done much that would lead me to believe that teams are so afraid of Mario for fear of him causing havok that they allow Amobi to get easy sacks. I can almost guarantee that teams are equally concerned with Mario and Amobi on the pass rush. But Amobi is a first year DT.



Sorry...I just think you give Mario too much credit, and don't give Amobi enough...The kid is really good.

Didn't mean to upset you though.
 
real said:
I think Mario is averaging roughly about .28 sacks a game for his career. What other DE have you ever witnessed come into the NFL and put up such stats as Mario has and been labled or considered a force ? I think Mario is very good for what he is, but he hasn't done much that would lead me to believe that teams are so afraid of Mario for fear of him causing havok that they allow Amobi to get easy sacks. I can almost guarantee that teams are equally concerned with Mario and Amobi on the pass rush. But Amobi is a first year DT.



Sorry...I just think you give Mario too much credit, and don't give Amobi enough...The kid is really good.

Didn't mean to upset you though.
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I am not upset at you.

I didn't give Mario more credit than he deserved, my point still stands though, the Dline is playing well as a unit. Travis has played well also and he has no sacks to show for it. I wouldn't really go with sacks to even judge linemen, I think hurries are more important.

I just think you are giving Mario little to no credit, maybe I am misunderstanding you but that is what it sounds like. Also even when Mario gets sacks some people are saying "Well he got the sack because so and so."

But once again. If the pressure is coming from the inside wouldn't the QB roll out? Also there is no reason for a QB to even step up if the DEs are getting handled. I am just reporting on what I saw and I saw Mario doing pretty well out there today AND Amobi. When did I downgrade his play? He did his job today and was there to get the sack, even though the QB steps up he still has to get off the block to make the tackle and he's doing that.
 
Vinny said:
Probably cause our ends aren't good pass rushers and Okoye has a good motor and doesn't give up on plays...many inside sacks come from persistence. He's living up to his billing...Mario isn't.
Click to expand...

Or it just could be that the ends are forcing the action by making the QB step up right into his path. And wrong is just plain wrong.
 
real said:
I think Mario is averaging roughly about .28 sacks a game for his career. What other DE have you ever witnessed come into the NFL and put up such stats as Mario has and been labled or considered a force ? I think Mario is very good for what he is, but he hasn't done much that would lead me to believe that teams are so afraid of Mario for fear of him causing havok that they allow Amobi to get easy sacks. I can almost guarantee that teams are equally concerned with Mario and Amobi on the pass rush. But Amobi is a first year DT.



Sorry...I just think you give Mario too much credit, and don't give Amobi enough...The kid is really good.

Didn't mean to upset you though.
Click to expand...

The kid is realy good because the tackles are forced to move to the out side and the QB must step up into the pocket. All Okoye is doing is playing pack man by splitting the DT and gobbling them up. But the Ends are doing the dirty work.

Mario is earning every penny he is being paid. But I undstand folks who have limited FB knowlege would be throwing the big fella under the buss. You don't know what you're talking about, it's somebodies fault, he is the bigest, highest paid guy on the line...Let's Lynch Mario. Got it. Mario didn't lose this game for lack of production. Kubiack and Sherman lost this game way back in training camp . And it had absolutly nothing what so ever to do with Mario.
 
Vinny said:
Probably cause our ends aren't good pass rushers and Okoye has a good motor and doesn't give up on plays...many inside sacks come from persistence. He's living up to his billing...Mario isn't.
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I'll give you Mario is not a natural. I'll give you Okoye has a none stop motor. But I disagree you with on your conclusion. I think Mario and Orr, when he is in the game, are getting good pressure, and they are forcing the QB up into the pocket. Now a super pass rusher will beat their man more then Mario and Orr, but they get solid pressure.

The difference I see, is Okoye has the athletic ability to get off his man and close to the QB. He is benefiting from playing next to Mario more than Mario is next to him right now.

The NFL is anything but dumb and they will soon start adjusting to the young fellow, and we may see Mario go thru one of his streaks, or then again maybe not. We all need to remember these two guys are both under 22 years old, and in two years they should be a force, and Travis Johnson can maintain his current level against the run, we are one RDE away from a super front four (I still see Mario as a true LDE).

Sorry I posted this before reading to the end ,and threetoe has already stated my conclusions.
 
The ends are forcing the QB to step up into the pocket & Amobi's cleaning them up. As long as he can see the QB in front of him, he's going to keep going.
 
Okoye kicks ass.

But beyond that, I think there is another reason he is doing so well, and that is that the rest of the line is doing well. Put a rookie first rounder in a crappy line, and he is going to have a hard time making an impact. This is what was happening for the Texans over the past few years. This year, though, TJ is playing with a fire under him, and Mario has a year's experience. So while I think almost all the credit has to go to Okoye, I think at least a small part of the equation is that he is coming into a much better line than either of the other two were coming into.
 
You know how they restore cars by putting in another motor?Well if you put Okoyes motor in some of our other D-linemen we might be better off. Some guys have it, some don't. The kid can play and at a position where he should be getting killed for his age and experience he is actually a quick learner.
 
threetoedpete said:
The kid is realy good because the tackles are forced to move to the out side and the QB must step up into the pocket. All Okoye is doing is playing pack man by splitting the DT and gobbling them up. But the Ends are doing the dirty work.
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Amobi is good because Amobi is good.

Sorry to break it to you, but our DE's aren't really doing anything special.

Making a QB "step up into the pocket" is nothing...
 
real said:
Amobi is good because Amobi is good.

Sorry to break it to you, but our DE's aren't really doing anything special.

Making a QB "step up into the pocket" is nothing...
Click to expand...

Nothing any of our D-linemen are doing is special, they are all doing what they're supposed to do. Amobi is just the guy coming up with the sacks now. How's the saying go... sacks come in bunches.
 
real said:
Amobi is good because Amobi is good.

Sorry to break it to you, but our DE's aren't really doing anything special.

Making a QB "step up into the pocket" is nothing...
Click to expand...

I agree on the DE front. Mario still isn't commanding double teams on mnay occassions and one guy is handling him or pusshing him off the line. I just think Akoye is who we thought he was and is ahead of schedule.
 
real said:
Amobi is good because Amobi is good.

Sorry to break it to you, but our DE's aren't really doing anything special.

Making a QB "step up into the pocket" is nothing...
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Yet you still ignore the fact that if the pressure was coming from the inside that the QB would roll out not step up. (Well Carr would actually step up.)
 
Leahmic223 said:
Yet you still ignore the fact that if the pressure was coming from the inside that the QB would roll out not step up. (Well Carr would actually step up.)
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I ignored that "fact" because it's not a fact and I just chalked it up to limited knowledge.

QB's step up into the pocket because that is what they are supposed to do.


If your QB is rolling out everytime a D-lineman gets pressure up the middle, odds are his name is David Carr.

What most starting QB's in the NFL do is side step or slightly move within the pocket. They don't go running towards the sidelines everytime a DT breaks through.
 
Most teams have still be keying on Mario and so Mobi was somewhat under the radar. What with him being only 20, most O-lineman thought they were going to be able to school him pretty easily. As the realization sinks in that he's the real deal and he gets more double teams it will open up the DEs to wreak more havoc.
 
real said:
QB's step up into the pocket because that is what they are supposed to do.
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When the pressure comes from the inside why would a sane QB step up? Wouldn't it make sense for that QB to move left or right to evade the DT coming through?

If you want to give Amobi all the credit fine, do so. But don't say Mario isn't doing anything, the guy is doing the same thing he did the first game, its just that the first game he got 2 sacks. The DLine are doing well as a unit, once again where is this dline where one guy gets all the sacks?

I keep thinking and all the elite DEs and DTs almost always have another good DT or DE playing on the same line. Its very hard for one DE or DT to rack up 10+ sacks a year by himself.
 
Leahmic223 said:
When the pressure comes from the inside why would a sane QB step up? Wouldn't it make sense for that QB to move left or right to evade the DT coming through?
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No, if the QB does that he has created a situation for the DE to get to the QB easier. The very basic idea for the OL is to stay in between the QB and the pass rusher. If the QB steps left or right to evade the DT he is moving out of the pocket creating a situation where a DE can shed a block much easier and get to him. Of course, there are times when this works quite well and there are QBs who specialize in doing this (ala Brett Favre and what looks like Tony Romo now).

Stepping up in the pocket is something all QBs must be able to do because pass rushers take wide angles of pursuit toward the QB, usually attacking him from the side or from behind. Good thing about Okoye is he punishes QBs when they do this. That's what we need. Maybe some of these QBs will feel forced to roll out because of pressure up the middle and our DEs can chase them down. We seem to allow QBs to sit in the pocket for far too long. This year we have been much better than the last in pressuring QBs out of the pocket. Alot of this is due to Amobi.
 
TexansSeminole said:
No, if the QB does that he has created a situation for the DE to get to the QB easier. The very basic idea for the OL is to stay in between the QB and the pass rusher. If the QB steps left or right to evade the DT he is moving out of the pocket creating a situation where a DE can shed a block much easier and get to him. Of course, there are times when this works quite well and there are QBs who specialize in doing this (ala Brett Favre and what looks like Tony Romo now).
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That is why I say, he wouldn't need to step up if the DEs are getting handled.

There are a lot of varibles and it all contributes to pocket presence overall.

If the DT breaks through and the DEs are getting handled, then he has no choice but to roll out.

My point is if the DEs are not doing there job and Amobi is doing everything like real suggest then he would roll out, Amobi's not coming from the outside he coming from the front so if he was the only one doing anything why would the QB go in his direction?
 
Leahmic223 said:
That is why I say, he wouldn't need to step up if the DEs are getting handled.

There are a lot of varibles and it all contributes to pocket presence overall.

If the DT breaks through and the DEs are getting handled, then he has no choice but to roll out.

My point is if the DEs are not doing there job and Amobi is doing everything like real suggest then he would roll out, Amobi's not coming from the outside he coming from the front so if he was the only one doing anything why would the QB go in his direction?
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Bottom line: When the QB breaks out of the pocket it becomes much easier to get to him. Therefore no matter what players are on the defensive line it is in the QBs best interest to not roll out, unless of course he is good at it.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Bottom line: When the QB breaks out of the pocket it becomes much easier to get to him. Therefore no matter what players are on the defensive line it is in the QBs best interest to not roll out, unless of course he is good at it.
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I agree with that, but there was a reason why I saw Peyton rolling out against us and throwing a ball out of bounds when we played the Colts. When they need to, they will do it.

I just don't get this "Amobi's doing everything" and "Hes the only guy playing hard." mentality, I am sorry I just don't see that.
 
Leahmic223 said:
I agree with that, but there was a reason why I saw Peyton rolling out against us and throwing a ball out of bounds when we played the Colts. When they need to, they will do it.

I just don't get this "Amobi's doing everything" and "Hes the only guy playing hard." mentality, I am sorry I just don't see that.
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I dont see it either.

I think the Peyton deal is just him making a play. I doubt it was in the gameplan. He probably just saw open space.
 
Leahmic223 said:
I just don't get this "Amobi's doing everything" and "Hes the only guy playing hard." mentality, I am sorry I just don't see that.
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Wow...Talk about flipping the script....

All I said was that Mario doesn't deserve major credit for what Amobi is doing.

I never said everyone else sucks.

Football is a very gray area kinda sport. Everything doesn't fit neatly into a box.

Because I say Mario doesn't deserve a great deal of credit for Amobi's success doesn't mean I think Mario hasn't helped at all, or that I think Mario sucks.

I just think Amobi deserves credit for what he has done and when you say he has succeded because of "so and so" it diminishes how good HE actually is.
 
real said:
Wow...Talk about flipping the script....

All I said was that Mario doesn't deserve major credit for what Amobi is doing.

I never said everyone else sucks.

Football is a very gray area kinda sport. Everything doesn't fit neatly into a box.

Because I say Mario doesn't deserve a great deal of credit for Amobi's success doesn't mean I think Mario hasn't helped at all, or that I think Mario sucks.

I just think Amobi deserves credit for what he has done and when you say he has succeded because of "so and so" it diminishes how good HE actually is.
Click to expand...

And I've never said Amobi success is because of Mario. The very first thing I said when I entered this thread was "Of course Amobi's succeeding because of what he's doing." So maybe you misunderstood where I am coming from and vice versa.

Amobi's works hard and wants to be the best at what he does obviously, and the same can be said for Mario. I just am saying Mario is doing good to, he's doing what he's supposed to and I think everyone of those guys (Dline) would have more sacks if the secondary could actually prevent guys from getting open within 1 second.

Harrington was pressured, but guys were open WAY too soon.
 
Leahmic223 said:
Harrington was pressured, but guys were open WAY too soon.
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On the actual play that Amobi go the sack, Harrington had no where to throw the ball. Or atleast he didn't see anyone open.

If anyone gets credit for that sack it our terrible DB's.
 
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