It's time to make Faggins a back up

[devoc]

i take jamar and fred at this point

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by Texans_Chick

I think Faggins is there because Robinson likes him on the other side. That he is comfortable that he will do his assignments right. At least that is what he said when Faggins came back from injury.

That may be the case, but when did D-Rob become the secondary coach? He needs to tend his side of the field and let someone other than Petey worry about the other. By getting his assignments right are you suggesting Petey's playing like we want him to play??? I know you aren't. I'm just really ticked about this right now.

[Texans_Chick]

Originally Posted by DocBar

That may be the case, but when did D-Rob become the secondary coach? He needs to tend his side of the field and let someone other than Petey worry about the other. By getting his assignments right are you suggesting Petey's playing like we want him to play??? I know you aren't. I'm just really ticked about this right now.

You could tell how frustrated Robinson was at the beginning of last year. Part of that is that he didn't trust the other corner on the other side to be where he needed to be for what coverages were called. I am certain that if the secondary coach thought there were better options, he would be playing them.

The Texans defense overall played better when Faggins came back. (notwithstanding the Lee Evans experience).

Yeah, Petey has got burnt, but he is a nickle corner and one of the many place holding players that the Texans have to depend on until they draft more and have more salary cap money. I'm not going to blame him for not being a better #2 CB any more than I am going to blame water for being wet. He is a nickle corner being pressed to play #2 because their ain't many better options. Everybody is looking for quality corners and they aren't easy to find.

And better corners have been embarrassed by Steve Smith and Peyton Manning.

I don't know, I just have a hard time killing players who fail when they are playing out of position but are using their best effort. They didn't choose to be put in their position.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by Texans_Chick

You could tell how frustrated Robinson was at the beginning of last year. Part of that is that he didn't trust the other corner on the other side to be where he needed to be for what coverages were called. I am certain that if the secondary coach thought there were better options, he would be playing them.

The Texans defense overall played better when Faggins came back. (notwithstanding the Lee Evans experience).

Yeah, Petey has got burnt, but he is a nickle corner and one of the many place holding players that the Texans have to depend on until they draft more and have more salary cap money. I'm not going to blame him for not being a better #2 CB any more than I am going to blame water for being wet. He is a nickle corner being pressed to play #2 because their ain't many better options. Everybody is looking for quality corners and they aren't easy to find.

And better corners have been embarrassed by Steve Smith and Peyton Manning.

I don't know, I just have a hard time killing players who fail when they are playing out of position but are using their best effort. They didn't choose to be put in their position.

I'm sure we'll be seeing D-Rob getting frustrated w/ Petey if he keeps giving up big plays. I certainly think he could do a decent job at nickel, but I disagree that he doesn't WANT to be the starting corner. Every player in the NFL wants to be a starter with the exception of GOLDBRICK(AKA David Carr). I'm ready for a changing of the guard at that position. Let's see what Fletcher can do there and see how Petey does at his better suited nickel. He would STILL get plenty of playing time, considering our division, so what would it hurt?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by beerlover

I'm sure CB is going to be a top priority for the Texans in the 08 draft-

IMHO, Cornerback, Running back, & Center. Not necessarily in that order.

At the same time, I'm watching games all around the league today, and people are getting burnt left & right.

Nine ther QBs threw for more yards than Peyton did today, and Drew Brees hasn't even suited up yet.

19 receivers have more recieving yards than Reggie Wayne, who had no touch downs. 51 receivers had a better day than Marvin Harrison(no touchdowns).

So yeah, go ahead and cry & moan about Petey, but it could be worse.

Now, I know the worst argument you could ever use for any player, is that there are worse players out there. & I'm not trying to make excuses for Petey. But I think some folks are a little harsh on him.

Nobody in this league has two shut down cover corners.

WRs get paid mad money & Petey is relatively cheap, even when you consider what we're getting out of him.

(Man I'm watching the Cowboy Bear game, and Adam Archelletta just gave up a touchdown to Marion Barber. I'm thinking about how soooo many people just want to ditch CC Brown. Archelletta has been abused by Barber & Whitten, both scoring TDs on him. )

Anyway. We don't have stars at every position. but we've got a pretty good team. Petey is a good football player, may not be the best corner in the leagu, but he's a good football player.

Let's just enjoy the ride, and trust Kubiak to do what needs to be done, when he feels we should do it.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

IMHO, Cornerback, Running back, & Center. Not necessarily in that order.

At the same time, I'm watching games all around the league today, and people are getting burnt left & right.

Nine ther QBs threw for more yards than Peyton did today, and Drew Brees hasn't even suited up yet.

19 receivers have more recieving yards than Reggie Wayne, who had no touch downs. 51 receivers had a better day than Marvin Harrison(no touchdowns).

So yeah, go ahead and cry & moan about Petey, but it could be worse.

Now, I know the worst argument you could ever use for any player, is that there are worse players out there. & I'm not trying to make excuses for Petey. But I think some folks are a little harsh on him.

Nobody in this league has two shut down cover corners.

WRs get paid mad money & Petey is relatively cheap, even when you consider what we're getting out of him.

(Man I'm watching the Cowboy Bear game, and Adam Archelletta just gave up a touchdown to Marion Barber. I'm thinking about how soooo many people just want to ditch CC Brown. Archelletta has been abused by Barber & Whitten, both scoring TDs on him. )

Anyway. We don't have stars at every position. but we've got a pretty good team. Petey is a good football player, may not be the best corner in the leagu, but he's a good football player.

Let's just enjoy the ride, and trust Kubiak to do what needs to be done, when he feels we should do it.

the real problem with Petey is he's being asked to play out of position (nickle/zone). he lacks the strength & physical nature to jam receivers off the line, then the make-up speed to cover in single coverage.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by beerlover

the real problem with Petey is he's being asked to play out of position (nickle/zone). he lacks the strength & physical nature to jam receivers off the line, then the make-up speed to cover in single coverage.

So then the question is why is he always in single coverage??

We didn't loose this game because Petey couldn't cover. IMHO, it's more about bad coaching.

Relatively no pass rush, poor coverage by the LBs, and as I mentioned before, a poor game plan against the Colts. We were rushing Manning all day with four down linemen, with with no concern for gap control.

In weeks 1&2, we took away the run, got a lead, and made the other team play catch up.

This week, we virtually ignored the running game, and were on the backs of our heels everytime the Colts had the ball.

[Ole Miss Texan]

Leon Halls has been burnt a lot this year and he was drafted when last year? I know I was pretty high on him and Revis.

I'm starting to ease up on our safeties a little (w/ Hutchins,Demps,Boulware,Brown).

It will be interesting to see how we finish (record), serious injuries at the end of the season, our strengths and weaknesses then.

for me, Front runner for 1st rd pick is CB and RB right now- I know a lot of people get mad when others talk about the draft this early... but thats part of the fun of being a young team

oh wow, grossman just got picked again. (now there's a #8 i'm glad we don't have! lol )

[Carr Bombed]

For me, front runner for first FA signing is a CB.

Why not, we have the cap space and does anybody really want to wait 3 years for one to develop? Sign a good CB in FA (even is you have to overpay for one) and be done with it.

I'm all for Asante Samuels at this point.

Sign a good CB, draft a safety, and be done with it.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan

I know a lot of people get mad when others talk about the draft this early...

What better reason to watch College Football??

[Ole Miss Texan]

Originally Posted by Carr Bomb

For me, front runner for first FA signing is a CB.

Why not, we have the cap space and does anybody really want to wait 3 years for one to develop? Sign a good CB in FA (even is you have to overpay for one) and be done with it.

I'm all for Asante Samuels at this point.

Sign a good CB, draft a safety, and be done with it.

That would just about shore up our defense!

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

What better reason to watch College Football??

Exactly my thinking as well.

Random thought of the Day: Terrel Owens really reminds me of Bernie Mac.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

So then the question is why is he always in single coverage??

he's earned the spot & remains their best option.

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

We didn't loose this game because Petey couldn't cover. IMHO, it's more about bad coaching.

Peyton lights up every cb, don't go blaming coaching or Petey, please.

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Relatively no pass rush, poor coverage by the LBs, and as I mentioned before, a poor game plan against the Colts. We were rushing Manning all day with four down linemen, with with no concern for gap control.

lighten up dude, the defense did reasonably well. the Colts OL has developed into one the best units in the NFL. our LB's really limited their ground game, nothing terrible & our DL never gave up, just could'nt catch a break because Manning is too smart & gets rid of the ball quickly.

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

In weeks 1&2, we took away the run, got a lead, and made the other team play catch up.

its no excuse but those two teams in week 1 & 2 where not the Colts.

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

This week, we virtually ignored the running game, and were on the backs of our heels everytime the Colts had the ball.

the Texans where without their #1 RB shortly after the first set, the #2 RB the entire game & the #3 RB should not have even made this team, not to mention their #1 playmaker WR Andre Johnson. they need an immediate transfusion

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

So then the question is why is he always in single coverage??

We didn't loose this game because Petey couldn't cover. IMHO, it's more about bad coaching.

Relatively no pass rush, poor coverage by the LBs, and as I mentioned before, a poor game plan against the Colts. We were rushing Manning all day with four down linemen, with with no concern for gap control.

In weeks 1&2, we took away the run, got a lead, and made the other team play catch up.

This week, we virtually ignored the running game, and were on the backs of our heels every time the Colts had the ball.

Faggins wasn't always in single coverage. He gave a big cushion to not get beat deep but that was the technique they worked on all week. Part of why he was in it is because he isn't that good as a press corner. I saw him play in the outside getting inside help, and he also had help over the top as the secondary mixed up their coverages pretty well. Faggins is much like the Oilers Steve Jackson....a good player as an extra back in passing downs but not a good starter. Fletcher isn't as good a player as Faggins is so benching Faggins isn't a solution at the moment I don't think.

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Faggins wasn't always in single coverage. He gave a big cushion to not get beat deep but that was the technique they worked on all week. Part of why he was in it is because he isn't that good as a press corner. I saw him play in the outside getting inside help, and he also had help over the top as the secondary mixed up their coverages pretty well. Faggins is much like the Oilers Steve Jackson....a good player as an extra back in passing downs but not a good starter. Fletcher isn't as good a player as Faggins is so benching Faggins isn't a solution at the moment I don't think.

If thats true, what the heck does that say about our coaching?

I mean if the casual fans......(me, you, and everybody else) is talking about how Faggins ONLY assignment is not to get beat deep with his cushions, then what's going to stop opposing coaches from drawing up their game plans to drive Faggins back and then turn around and catch intermediate passes all game. (which is exactly what's been going on)

Nobody is going to respect our pass defense until the Texans (Faggins) can prove they can man up on that side.

Faggins has been exposed on tape....the Colts just didn't walk into the game saying......"gee whiz we are getting lucky throwing that 6 to 7 yard gimmie on the right side".....they knew it was going to be there and until we mix things up.....it's going to be there.

I don't know, maybe I'm just frustrated, I just want/feel there's a better answer to this problem.....If it can't be found on the bench (and no I'm not a "fire everybody guy"), but maybe we need to find a replacement for John Hoke, because frankly........what makes the guy so special? year after year our secondary is always a weakness on this team and it's not just because we play in the same division as the Colts.

Sometimes I feel that Dunta's stellar rookie year gave Hoke a multi-year "grace period".

[rollinstone18]

Originally Posted by Carr Bomb

For me, front runner for first FA signing is a CB.

Why not, we have the cap space and does anybody really want to wait 3 years for one to develop? Sign a good CB in FA (even is you have to overpay for one) and be done with it.

I'm all for Asante Samuels at this point.

Sign a good CB, draft a safety, and be done with it.

I like Samuels too but that would make our #1 and #2 CB under 6ft. Maybe it'd work out fine, but it's still something to keep in mind. He's also going to want a lot of dough. And there's a good crop of young CBs in the '08 draft. But he's still worth pursuing.

Another free agent I'd like to look at signing is Alan Faneca.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Carr Bomb

If thats true, what the heck does that say about our coaching?

I just think it means that they didn't want to give up big plays on that side of the field. A lot of critical plays were given up by Fletcher and Faggins both, but I think that says more about their talent level than it does our coaching. I mean, we just played one of the NFL's all time, historic passing offenses...Faggins isn't a great CB but the team is good enough to beat the lower 16 teams in the NFL and compete with the better teams even with Faggins at CB2. The Manning Colts are good.

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by Vinny

I just think it means that they didn't want to give up big plays on that side of the field. A lot of critical plays were given up by Fletcher and Faggins both, but I think that says more about their talent level than it does our coaching. I mean, we just played one of the NFL's all time, historic passing offenses...Faggins isn't a great CB but the team is good enough to beat the lower 16 teams in the NFL and compete with the better teams even with Faggins at CB2. The Manning Colts are good.

I understand the Colts are great....don't get me wrong, they are great, but we got burnt be Carolina also (only one elite receiver). We are getting beat by a coaching standpoint (Dunta should of been put on Smith) and a player standpoint.

The way this secondary is playing and the way things are rolling, I think John Hoke's head is going to roll.

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by rollinstone18

I like Samuels too but that would make our #1 and #2 CB under 6ft. Maybe it'd work out fine, but it's still something to keep in mind. He's also going to want a lot of dough. And there's a good crop of young CBs in the '08 draft. But he's still worth pursuing.

Another free agent I'd like to look at signing is Alan Faneca.

I just threw Samuels name out there, mainly because we can afford him, but regardless if we go for him or not, we should still sign a player in FA that the team feels can be a # 2 cb here..........and a player that can play in the AFC South with Wayne, Harrison, Clark, and Gonzalez.........that mean's a upper echelon cb.


You know, I was going to start a whole another thread on this, but I'll go ahead and post it here.

Everybody loves to say......"Texans built their team to beat the Colts', locally and national people say they have, but if you think about it, they haven't

As much as it pains me to say it, the Titans have built their team to beat the Colts. Regardless if anyone wants to acknowledge it, Peyton doesn't give a crap or cares about "your" pass rush and the Colts offense is built from the pass first, run second philosophy.

Let me ask you this question........who has played the Colts closer and held the Colts to lower scores?

The Titans have spent their draft and FA on upgrading their talent in the secondary and it shows against the Colts.

[Texanmike02]

Just my .02.

I didn't think this was a playoff year to start. I might be changing that. But if I have to chose between a wildcard and out year vs an 8-9 win season and developing a CB2. I'll take the CB2 and even higher expectations next year. Hell, if you have to... rotate CB2. Either way... at least there isn't much film showing oppsing coaches what Bennet's weaknesses are. Faggins lack of ability is documented over a 4 year period. He's a nickleback.. and that's not a knock on him. He's overachieving as a 6th round pick. I have no doubt he puts in work.. you have to if you want to stay in this league. Especially given the fact I don't think he's as physically gifted as anyone but Kris Brown on our roster.

Mike

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Faggins wasn't always in single coverage. He gave a big cushion to not get beat deep but that was the technique they worked on all week.

I don't believe he was always in single coverage, and I'm not disappointed with our team as a unit. I was responding sarcastically to someone who said he was always in single coverage.

I like Faggins, and I think he's as good as most of the CB2s in this league. I'll take Faggins over Anthony Henry, even though Henry has two picks now. I bet Faggins will have a solid year stat wise come week 17.

Originally Posted by Carr Bomb

I understand the Colts are great....don't get me wrong, they are great, but we got burnt be Carolina also (only one elite receiver). We are getting beat by a coaching standpoint (Dunta should of been put on Smith) and a player standpoint.

The way this secondary is playing and the way things are rolling, I think John Hoke's head is going to roll.

IMHO, because we have this team under a micro-scope we are hyper critical of several players. Faggins & CC Brown specifically. These guys are middle of the pack, I think, but because we see them every week, we think they are the worse players in the league.

Petey didn't get "burnt" by Steve Smith. At least I didn't see it(but I've got a bad memory). He fell down on the second touchdown, but he was in position to make the play. Steve Smith caught the ball, then blew by three other Texans defenders not named Faggins.

On the first touchdown, Petey was in his face, and prevented Smith from initially receiving the ball. But it took a Carolina bounce, and Steve Smith made a great play.

Now, to keep things in Perspective, the Colts have averaged 417ypg this year. We only allowed 364 to that team, and we scored 24 points without our go to guy, and our third string running back.

Silver lining and all, we're still looking pretty good.