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Old 09-05-2007   #1
Ole Miss Texan
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Default Texans/Denver Draft Myths

I'd like to start this thread to basically talk about how our team and denver team is being compared, for obvious reasons. However, even with us having the best core of RB's we've ever had, we're still looking for a long term answer..green is old, dayne is old, and gado...well he's going to be a doctor.

Since we are basically Denver...we automatically will never select a RB in the first round of the draft...because "that's denver's philosophy". I would like to look at the last decade or so and see when and IF denver even taking a RB would have been warranted. I understand the concept that they can get servicable rb's in later rounds to get yards...but same goes for OL...and they've spent 1sts on the OL before. I fell their system is only part of the reason.

Best Pick Available and Need are typically the 2 biggest factors that go into a draft selection. I feel These two reasons are the biggest ones of why Denver hasn't selected a RB in the 1st...(besides the fact they had a guy named Terrell Davis (2nd day guy?) so why use a first on a RB if you don't need to?

Before I start I'd like to state I am not a draft expert, college football expert, nor have I followed Den. very much to know their team/needs. Those that have please chime in...

2007: 17th pick-Jarvis Moss DE (I believe DEN traded up to get him, he was their guy, RB's taken after their pick were Kenny Irons and Chris Henry but were in the 2nd round- 1st rd RB NOT WARRANTED)

2006: 11th pick- Jay Cutler QB (again they traded up, needed a QB...this was a need pick and they think Cutler has what it takes to eventually lead this team to the superbowl...plenty of good RB's like maroney, addai, williams at 21+ but i'm not sure of denver's original draft position.)

2005: No first rd pick (cedric benson and cadillace williams were taken 4/5th overall. after that jj arrington(44th) and eric shelton (54th) only rb's taken in rds 1 and 2

2004: 17th pick- Darrent Williams CB (here we go...Steven Jackson taken 7 picks later at 24, Chris Perry 26, Kevin Jones 30, ***Denver selected Tatum Bell with the 9th pick in the 2nd round.)

2003: 20th pick- George Foster T (Willis McGahee 23rd, Larry Johnson 27th, no running backs taken in 2nd rd. I would have taken LJ

2002:
19th pick- Ashley Lelie WR (1st RB taken after their pick was dashaun foster with the 2nd pick in the 2nd round, ***Den selected Clinton Portis w/ the 19th pick in the 2nd rd)

2001: 24th pick- Willie Middlebrooks CB (could have selected Michael Bennett (27th), Anthony Thomas(38), Lamont Jordan (49), Travis Henry (58)

2000:
15th pick- Deltha Oneal CB (Shaun Alexander (19), Trung Canidate? (31) none in 2nd rd)

1999: 31st pick- Al Wilson MLB (JJ Johnson 39), Mike Cloud (54), and Jermain Fazand (60))

1998: 30th pick- Marcus Nash WR (Robert holcombe (37), only RB taken in 2nd)

1997: 28th pick Trevor Pryce DT (Tiki Barber (36), Byron Hanspard (41), Corey Dillon (43), Marc Edwards (55))

1996: 15th pick John Mobley OLB (Leeland McElroy (32))

1995: No pick until 4th round. Selected Terrell Davis in the 6th round


So in the end, were there really THAT many opportunities for them to select a RB in the 1st Rd?
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Old 09-05-2007   #2
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

Sorry It turned out so long of a post...

Please remember the Rumor that Kubiak tried to trade back up into the 1st round to select Deangelo Williams in the 2006 draft!

After looking at the past 12 years of denver drafts and 2 of Houstons drafts under Kubiak....I think its safe to say ...

If a RB is a Need/BPA , I believe Kubiak would select him.
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Old 09-05-2007   #3
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

Not only that, but up until the last week before the draft we were intending on picking Reggie Bush.
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Old 09-05-2007   #4
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

Personally i don't see us going RB first round again. I think two factors will deceide where we pick this year.

One: How our secondary holds up and if Bennett show signs he can be the #2 guy next year. How does FS hold up? IS that going to be a glaring spot all year?

Two: Charles Spencer's injury and how the Oline performs. Like I've said in past posts the end up the PUP period should give us a good indication of if he'll ever play again. I have my doubts and i don't want to count the guy out. I think Black is a serviceable backup and when you're the backup for WILLIE ROAF a HOFer....you're not going to look or completely execute as well. Salaam will probably hold up most of the year the big question is if someone like Butler show enough promise over the season to warrant a look next year starting. Also does Chris White havea legit shot at being C next year?
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Old 09-05-2007   #5
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

My understanding of the Denver "zone blocking scheme" and the reasoning behind a franchise RB not being taken in the 1st round is due to the ZBS using quick linemen to open holes at a rate that your 82 year old grand pappy can truck his walker through.

Our hopes for using the ZBS have faded (at least for the time being) due to our linemen only being serviceable and incapable of pulling off the ZBS successfully. We will require a somewhat talented running back capable of creating his own holes (Ahman Green) until the ZBS can, if ever, be implemented.

Running back's are a dime a dozen and your Barry Sanders/Marshall Faulk type of running backs only pop up in the draft once ever 3-5 years. If that one back is there when our pick is up then I have no doubt that McSmithiac will pull the trigger.

I still firmly beleive that Adrian Peterson would be a Texan had he have fallen to #10.

My $0.02
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Old 09-05-2007   #6
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
Personally i don't see us going RB first round again. I think two factors will deceide where we pick this year.

One: How our secondary holds up and if Bennett show signs he can be the #2 guy next year. How does FS hold up? IS that going to be a glaring spot all year?

Two: Charles Spencer's injury and how the Oline performs. Like I've said in past posts the end up the PUP period should give us a good indication of if he'll ever play again. I have my doubts and i don't want to count the guy out. I think Black is a serviceable backup and when you're the backup for WILLIE ROAF a HOFer....you're not going to look or completely execute as well. Salaam will probably hold up most of the year the big question is if someone like Butler show enough promise over the season to warrant a look next year starting. Also does Chris White havea legit shot at being C next year?
On thinking towards future drafts...I agree with you.

I'm of the feeling if we can get a stud free safety, our defense will be studly...still room for improvement but FS would help immensley.

LT is the spot on offense that I think we need the most help, imo neither salaam nor black are our long term solution there, Spencer WAS. is he still? We'll see if he comes back by the end of the season and picks up where he left off...1st rd LT would help our line a lot...there is a huge gap between our vets that have 10 years experience and our new guys like Frye and Studdard, Chris White...that need more time to develop. A stud LT would help.

RB is a position I see that we're fine with right now. Green/Dayne/Gado are a good combo for this season. We're still hoping Taylor comes back full strength too, he was such a brightspot against the browns. There could be some really good RB's in the '08/'09 draft class for us to look at. I don't want to shed a bad light on any of this but a 2nd round pick in the '08 draft would be really really nice to have in this regard.
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Old 09-05-2007   #7
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

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Originally Posted by Exithios View Post
My understanding of the Denver "zone blocking scheme" and the reasoning behind a franchise RB not being taken in the 1st round is due to the ZBS using quick linemen to open holes at a rate that your 82 year old grand pappy can truck his walker through.
I don't see how having open holes means that you shouldn't take a RB early in the draft if a good one is staring you in the face.

I believe that we'll take the player we think is the best and that fills a need. And I agree, if Adrian Peterson is sitting at #10, I don't see how we pass him up... although it would have made the AG signing hard to swallow.
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Old 09-05-2007   #8
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

With a RBs lifespan in the NFL I would prefer not to draft one very high. Give me an average to above average RB with an above average to spectacular OL anyday. I.e. I'll take Emmitt Smith and Cowboy's line over Barry Sanders and the Lion's line anyday.
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Old 09-05-2007   #9
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

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With a RBs lifespan in the NFL I would prefer not to draft one very high. Give me an average to above average RB with an above average to spectacular OL anyday. I.e. I'll take Emmitt Smith and Cowboy's line over Barry Sanders and the Lion's line anyday.
I'll let it go, but somebody will surely have pickle over that statement.

PS-We know what you mean, though.
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Old 09-05-2007   #10
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

Typically, Denver has tried to draft defense high and offensive system guys later. They figure if they get their system guys they can make their offensive work, and then they just need the defense to hold their end. They drafted offensive guys higher if they got great value and/or found a key player.

Kubiak has been very balanced in his drafting of offensive and defensive players.
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Old 09-05-2007   #11
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
On thinking towards future drafts...I agree with you.

I'm of the feeling if we can get a stud free safety, our defense will be studly...still room for improvement but FS would help immensley.

LT is the spot on offense that I think we need the most help, imo neither salaam nor black are our long term solution there, Spencer WAS. is he still? We'll see if he comes back by the end of the season and picks up where he left off...1st rd LT would help our line a lot...there is a huge gap between our vets that have 10 years experience and our new guys like Frye and Studdard, Chris White...that need more time to develop. A stud LT would help.

RB is a position I see that we're fine with right now. Green/Dayne/Gado are a good combo for this season. We're still hoping Taylor comes back full strength too, he was such a brightspot against the browns. There could be some really good RB's in the '08/'09 draft class for us to look at. I don't want to shed a bad light on any of this but a 2nd round pick in the '08 draft would be really really nice to have in this regard.
Agreed on a good FS would solidify our secondary right now. I did like the Boulware aquisition and while taking the hit that Jason Babin was i think it was time he and the franchise moved on.

As for our line. I think Kubiak wants to move more in the direction of a ZBS jsut right now the personnel doesn't match up very well. But it looks like the olinemne he does pick up seem to be the more protoype for the scheme. I'm afraid to admit that it'll be a year or two turning over the Oline til he gets what he wants. In the meantime i do like Studdard and i like the upside of Frye and White from what I've heard. I'm curious about this move bringing Butler in. He played RT at UM.... could this be a segway to move Winston back over to LT?

But unless someone falls into our lap in the first round people wanting the franchise back will simply have to eat it in favor of a place of more dire need. Personally i think Slaton would fit perfectly with what we're trying to do. Seems like he makes one cut and goes.
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Old 09-05-2007   #12
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

If Slaton some how fell to us, wherever we are, we would have to take him. You don't pass on someone as talented as him. This draft is loaded with running back talent if some juniors come out early.
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Old 09-05-2007   #13
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

The more posts I read on this board the more fired up for this season I get...especially since it'll be the first game i see on TV since a game on monday night a couple years back. I don't think I'm going to sleep for a while.

With that out of the way, are Studdard, Frye and White poised to make a run for starting positions next year? These three really flew under my radar all preseason long, and I'm just now realizing that they do, in fact, exist.
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Old 09-05-2007   #14
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

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i'd say this myth was busted, so are you the gay guy with the big mustauche or the gay guy with the big glasses and face? j/k man, really nice insight to show that only two maybe three times they could've taken a running back (and only NOW do we know who became a star and who...well...who we couldn't even remember) and decided to fill a need elsewhere.
.
hahaha, nice.

I just looked up Terrell Davis' stats...wow 2,008 yards in '98!? sheesh. I can't remember what happened last season much less 8 years ago but can someone refresh my memory on Davis' career after '98? Did he have a knee injury or something? he started in 4 and 5 games in '99 and '00 respectively and then 11 in '01.

Wow, and am i reading this correctly? '99 on Terrell doesnt play near as much but..
1999- Denver ranked 12th in the nfl in rushing yards (14th in ypa)
2000- Denver ranked 2nd in the nfl in rushing yards (6th in ypa)
2001- Denver ranked 10th in the nfl in rushing yards (19th in ypa)
2002- Denver ranked 5th in the nfl in rushing yards (3rd in ypa)
2003- Denver ranked 2nd in the nfl in rushing yards (3rd in ypa)

So of the guys I initially though Denver should have selected..(Shaun Alexander in 2000 and Larry Johnson in 2003) I see why denver didn't. They really didn't need to at all. Clinton Portis came in in 2002 and rushed for over 1500 yds each year...

So in the end I don't really see where Denver SHOULD have selected a RB in the 1st. In hindsight we see only a few opportunities the really could have...but after seeing their rushing stats those years there's no need to draft a RB when you're already in the top 10 and top 5 in rushing.

cool sight for stats...
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den1998.htm
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Old 09-05-2007   #15
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

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hahaha, nice.

I just looked up Terrell Davis' stats...wow 2,008 yards in '98!? sheesh. I can't remember what happened last season much less 8 years ago but can someone refresh my memory on Davis' career after '98? Did he have a knee injury or something? he started in 4 and 5 games in '99 and '00 respectively and then 11 in '01.
He tore his ACL and MCL making a tackle on an interception in 99. Then he had a stress fracture or something in his high ankle area in 00.
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Old 09-05-2007   #16
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx2006.htm
2006 Houston Texans under Gary Kubiak
Team Offense

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL
CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD
330 482 3032 6.29 14 13 431 1685 3.91 13 4717
NFL rank ---> 8 23 26 25 29 10 22 21 20 17 28

Team Defense

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL
CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD
328 504 3635 7.21 22 11 446 1956 4.39 16 5591
NFL rank ---> 26 11 22 25 23 30 13 20 22 25 24


Offense Passing 26th
Offense Rushing 21st
Defense Passing 22nd
Defense Rushing 20th

That doesn't look that bad to me at all. Think about how much our team has improved and I easily see top 20 in each category this next season and will expect top 15 for these stats!!!!

"Monday- 1 day, Tuesday- 2day, Wednesday-when, what when!?, THURSDAY!- the THIRD day!" -Joey from friends....What day is sunday!? I cannot wait till we pummel the Chefs.
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Old 09-06-2007   #17
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

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hahaha, nice.

I just looked up Terrell Davis' stats...wow 2,008 yards in '98!? sheesh. I can't remember what happened last season much less 8 years ago but can someone refresh my memory on Davis' career after '98? Did he have a knee injury or something? he started in 4 and 5 games in '99 and '00 respectively and then 11 in '01.

Wow, and am i reading this correctly? '99 on Terrell doesnt play near as much but..
1999- Denver ranked 12th in the nfl in rushing yards (14th in ypa)
2000- Denver ranked 2nd in the nfl in rushing yards (6th in ypa)
2001- Denver ranked 10th in the nfl in rushing yards (19th in ypa)
2002- Denver ranked 5th in the nfl in rushing yards (3rd in ypa)
2003- Denver ranked 2nd in the nfl in rushing yards (3rd in ypa)

So of the guys I initially though Denver should have selected..(Shaun Alexander in 2000 and Larry Johnson in 2003) I see why denver didn't. They really didn't need to at all. Clinton Portis came in in 2002 and rushed for over 1500 yds each year...

So in the end I don't really see where Denver SHOULD have selected a RB in the 1st. In hindsight we see only a few opportunities the really could have...but after seeing their rushing stats those years there's no need to draft a RB when you're already in the top 10 and top 5 in rushing.

cool sight for stats...
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den1998.htm
Yep Ole Miss. For a whileTerrell was quite a force up in Denver and a very classy person on top of it too. I thought his knees were bad Pencil? Or something like that.

Something that also get missed is during the solid rushing years they've always had a competant QB who is you totally played the run could burn you outside or have Sharpe up the middle. One year Both Ed McCaffery and Rod Smith both ahd 100 catch seasons. Everyone talks aboutthe consistany running but those two gave people nightmares. I've always liked Denver and was really excited when Kubiak got the nod.

It really was a fun offense to watch and i'm seeing the makings for it here again in Houston and Denver has made some really great moves the past two years. I look for both teams to make a move this year.
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Old 09-06-2007   #18
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
I'll let it go, but somebody will surely have pickle over that statement.

PS-We know what you mean, though.
I like stirring the pot. I honestly think he was more than above average but not in the catergory of the greats. A lot of people could have done serious damage behind that OL.
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Old 09-06-2007   #19
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

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ole miss, i'm pretty sure you realized that i was speaking in jest about the mythbusters gay joke thing. some people missed it and neg rep'd me but i just wanted to make sure you know that i'm kidding since it was directed towards you.
Sorry about the neg rep....I thought it was friggin hilarious! no worries bud.


One thing that TexansChick keyed in on about selecting offensive players is basically nit-picking guys that fit their system. Nowadays more and more teams are looking towards the the quick o-linemen or rb's that make one cut and go. It used to be the big ol' 350lb dudes mauling people and Denv/ San Fran etc didn't worry about them and could get them later in the draft b/c other teams passed on them. Same goes for RB's, if a guy knows the system and can produce in it, even if not the biggest and strongest, he could be successful. Behind other lines he wouldn't do near as well so gets knocked down a round or two, etc. Am I along the correct way of thinking or am I totally off? This is always something I've kind of thought.

As far as talent, I would like to see someone argue that Lundy(6th)> Addai and Maroney (1st), I'm not going to . lol
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Old 09-06-2007   #20
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Default Re: Texans/Denver Draft Myths

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a lot of people could've done serious damage behind that line. very true.

but emmitt smith is the ONE who did do serious damage. serious damage all the way to the top of personal and team oriented goals. you can't discount his legacy and greatness for other units playing well. that's like saying dan marino wasn't all that because his linebackers were studly. i don't even know if that's totally true or not (too young) but c'mon man...emmitt smith isn't in the realm of great running backs? please....
All I'm saying is I'll take the line over any player anyday. Emmitt was good, he was great behind that line. Barry was great period. Swap those two players and what happens? At what point in time did I discount his "greatness". He was neither blessed with blazing speed nor amazing elusiveness. He was however durable and a solid runner.

Marino never stood behind his LBs. Totally off the point and on a wild tangent. (Kinda like most of my post)
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