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View Poll Results: Which scenario would you prefer?
Reality- Matt Schaub and Mario Williams 67 82.72%
Fantasy- Vince Young and 2 second rounders 14 17.28%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-28-2007   #41
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Default Re: What could have been...

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Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976 View Post
See what I mean? Your attempt to play "what if?" gets real complicated because it's sort of like taking a time machine back to 1962 to stop JFK from getting shot. Then what happens to the rest of history? It's radically altered because an "alive JFK" alters what happens.
There's a novel called Replay by Ken Grimwood. It's an OK sci-fi novel but it deals with just this issue. A 40-something guy unhappy guy goes back to when he was 18. His mind and memories go back and are in his 18 year old body. He then gets to re-live his life and when he gets 43 his mind goes back to his 20 year old body, over and over and over.

When he goes back, he does different things and everything changes. He makes bets and makes money on who's going to win certain sporting events but they start to diverge as time goes on. It's like a domino effect, you change one thing and that changes hundreds of things and each of those things change hundreds more.

We draft VY, he doesn't become ROY. If we draft VY, maybe we don't draft Demeco. Who knows? It's just kinda pointless. We are what we are and this is what it is.
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Old 08-28-2007   #42
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Default Re: What could have been...

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Originally Posted by TexanRevolution View Post
AAAAHHHHHGGGGG!

Damn...not again!

Um, what if the Oilers had never left?
What if Bum had never been fired?
What if the South had won the war?
What if your aunt had nads?


1) Still not able to make it out of the first round of the playoffs
2) Still losing to Pittsburgh in the first round of the playoffs
3) Mexico would be a bigger country
4) She's not supposed to?
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Old 08-28-2007   #43
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Default Re: What could have been...



We could have had Uncle Rico.... oh well!

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Old 08-28-2007   #44
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Default Re: What could have been...

It's pre-season...the natives are getting restless...three full-priced practice games are enough....the season needs to start so we can put so many things to rest....and start new ones!
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Old 08-28-2007   #45
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Default Re: What could have been...

You know, I liked VY coming out but I have thought of various alternative history scenarios at times. How about this fiction:

Dan Reeves says 1. David Carr is a problem at the quarterback position and 2. Even if he has potential, his good will is shot with the fan base and the lockeroom and he won't be in a good environment to learn. He needs a fresh start.

Carr leaves in March. The Texans get nothing for him and everyone makes fun of the Texans for giving up on Carr and passing on Bush.

Texans sign Sage Rosenfels (maybe? or does he not want to be backup to a rookie. Or do the Texans figure they need a more experienced QB to groom the inevitable VY).

Vince Young knows he is going to be drafted first. With no legit QB in Houston, he knows he will be picked. Maybe he blows off the quarterback coach thing with Jerry Rhome.

VY has a horrible draft season, worse than the real one he had. National media criticizes the Texans for being boneheads and not going for Reggie Bush. Houstonians don't care.

The Texans want to sign VY early, but his inexperienced agent knows he has leverage with the team and doesn't want to be taken advantage of. He knows he can get maximum coin being a first pick QB and wants the best deal ever. McNair pays the highest price ever for the first pick in the draft to get him signed before the draft starts. The large sucking sound you hear is no money for other positions on the team.

Kubiak works with VY, but realizes to take advantage of his special talents, he has to retool the offense.

The starting QB looks really good (Sage?) but Houstonians are intrigued with what VY does off schedule. The fans boo the starter like crazy and Kubiak is pressured to put in VY.

VY plays but struggles with the poor running backs and injured line and play calling by a newly formed staff. Many of the new Texan fans (who are more fans of VY than fans of the Texans) blame Kubiak for not taking advantage of VY's talents. The coaching staff has problems making VY follow all the rules because VY knows he is so popular in Houston, he can get away with anything. Maybe all his friends in Houston make it harder for him to focus just on football.

In year 3, Kubiak gets fired, and they look for another coach who will let Vince be Vince some more. Between finding the right scheme and trying not to get injured, the Texans end up with an exciting brand of football that ultimately disappoints. That the Texans are not a team, but rather the Vince Show, completely dependant on one player's health and good decisions off the field to do anything. VY never ends up living up to his potential, and he is either considered just a college wonder and bust or that the Texans ruined him.


Or another alternative history is that VY brings a lot of new fans to the Texans, emotions are outta sight, he's a magnificent leader but also a team player, and then the Texans ride that wave of emotions to the playoffs for a decade and ultimately the Superbowl. And the Longhorn and the Aggie live in harmony and peace.


I don't know. What I do know is this. I was talking to someone who used to be an Oiler fan but doesn't really follow the Texans. And he said he would be the biggest Texans fan ever if they had picked up Young. I think there would have been a lot of folks that way. Personally, those sorts of player first fans give me the willies.

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thinks the poll is sorta silly
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Old 08-28-2007   #46
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Default Re: What could have been...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post

In year 3, Kubiak gets fired, and they look for another coach who will let Vince be Vince some more. Between finding the right scheme and trying not to get injured, the Texans end up with an exciting brand of football that ultimately disappoints. That the Texans are not a team, but rather the Vince Show, completely dependant on one player's health and good decisions off the field to do anything. VY never ends up living up to his potential, and he is either considered just a college wonder and bust or that the Texans ruined him.

Arnold Horshack OH!OH! OH! *raises hand*

Mack Brown !!!!!
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Old 08-28-2007   #47
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Default Re: What could have been...

Vince Young is the enemy
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Old 08-28-2007   #48
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Default Re: What could have been...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post

Kubiak works with VY, but realizes to take advantage of his special talents, he has to retool the offense.

The starting QB looks really good (Sage?) but Houstonians are intrigued with what VY does off schedule. The fans boo the starter like crazy and Kubiak is pressured to put in VY.

VY plays but struggles with the poor running backs and injured line and play calling by a newly formed staff. Many of the new Texan fans (who are more fans of VY than fans of the Texans) blame Kubiak for not taking advantage of VY's talents. The coaching staff has problems making VY follow all the rules because VY knows he is so popular in Houston, he can get away with anything. Maybe all his friends in Houston make it harder for him to focus just on football.

In year 3, Kubiak gets fired, and they look for another coach who will let Vince be Vince some more. Between finding the right scheme and trying not to get injured, the Texans end up with an exciting brand of football that ultimately disappoints. That the Texans are not a team, but rather the Vince Show, completely dependant on one player's health and good decisions off the field to do anything. VY never ends up living up to his potential, and he is either considered just a college wonder and bust or that the Texans ruined him.
Sounds like The Falcons.
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Old 08-28-2007   #49
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Default Re: What could have been...

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Originally Posted by Grams View Post
Sounds like The Falcons.
Yeah, really. Had Vick not be involved with the dog fighting, that could be a logical scenerio.

So then the question becomes
1) Is it more important to have a player who'll put the fans in the seats and the jersey sales in the owners pocket or
2) To build a team with the right people for your offense so they could ultimatly have more success in the future.

The answer is.....depends on the owner. Thank god we have McNair.
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Old 08-28-2007   #50
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Default Re: What could have been...

I would rather have 2.

Lets continue to build the team the right way and enjoy lots of winning seasons.
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Old 08-29-2007   #51
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Default Re: What could have been...

I couldn't agree more. I was living in Oregon when the Texans came to be. Not the football team mind you, but the club, the organization. I did as much research as I could on the organization to find out what kind of team it would be. I was never an Oilers fan. I grew up in Austin and my dad was a Tom Landry / Cowboys fan. I didn't like them because as I got older they all seemed like rappers or something. I wandered off and found a liking for the Bengals because I thought they looked wierd. After years and years of swing season after swing season I started to analyze the organization and found that It was not an organization that was dedicated to winning the right way. It was all flash and trickery and no substance.

I learned from watching Tom Landry that character is key. I never liked the Bud Adams because he seemed to run his organization with negativity and a willingness to be mediocre. Bob McNair seemed to me to be his doplleganger.

I had been living in Oregon getting up at 9 in the morning to watch football and rooting for good games and good plays. When the news came that Houston's new team was going to be called the "Texans". I was done. I had heard all McNair had to say about building a team the right way, slowly with a solid foundation etc. etc. and Naming them "Texans" and not dressing them like clowns was a big bonus. We couldn't be luckier to have a team that is building the way it is. Go listen to that speech that Kubiak gives at the Luncheon and tell me that's not a message that you can get behind.

Texans Chick's scenario is very similar to the organization in Atlanta. Our scenario is building to be more like the organization in New England.


go texans.
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Old 08-29-2007   #52
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Default Re: What could have been...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
There's a novel called Replay by Ken Grimwood. It's an OK sci-fi novel but it deals with just this issue. A 40-something guy unhappy guy goes back to when he was 18. His mind and memories go back and are in his 18 year old body. He then gets to re-live his life and when he gets 43 his mind goes back to his 20 year old body, over and over and over.

When he goes back, he does different things and everything changes. He makes bets and makes money on who's going to win certain sporting events but they start to diverge as time goes on. It's like a domino effect, you change one thing and that changes hundreds of things and each of those things change hundreds more.

We draft VY, he doesn't become ROY. If we draft VY, maybe we don't draft Demeco. Who knows? It's just kinda pointless. We are what we are and this is what it is.

I believe the term we are searching for is the butterfly effect.

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Old 08-29-2007   #53
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Default Re: What could have been...

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Actually it was once in 10 attempts...but who's counting?
We only attempted to win 6 of them
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Old 08-29-2007   #54
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Default Re: What could have been...

Quote:
Okay guys, I know it's still a little premature...
How can ya be an AllStar and be premature? Now on to more important things
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Old 08-29-2007   #55
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Default Re: What could have been...

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Texans Chick's scenario is very similar to the organization in Atlanta. Our scenario is building to be more like the organization in New England.


go texans.
Well, yeah I thought of the Falcons.

I do not think that VY and Vick have the same game, and I think VY's situation as it relates to Houston is unique. They are similar in that they have unique talents that a conventional offense can't exploit properly.

If VY were a Texan, he would have an unprecidented amount of leverage over the coach and organization. This combined with him having an agent who is a family friend could be squirrelly. My alternative history involved the Falcons, but Vick in Atlanta never would be as popular as VY in Houston.

This is not to say that the Texans couldn't win with VY. I wouldn't have wanted to draft him if I felt that way. VY with good QB coaching and an electric atmosphere could be amazing. I'm not sure the choice ever was between fans in the seats or building a team the *right way* for long term success. There is no one right way to build a team, and it is quite possible that VY could have been the foundation for success for a decade.

The only thing we know about alternative history is that we would never know. Even any success he has as a Titan doesn't translate to having success as a Texan. And we don't know how the drafts woulda gone differently if VY was picked.

So in sum, I like VY, but have been uncomfortable with having so much power with one player. He recognizes that, and tries to make a point of being a team guy but he'd have so much more power in Houston than he did starting out with the Titans. (a perfect situation for him because the owner will support the heck out of him until he gets used up).
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Old 08-29-2007   #56
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Default Re: What could have been...

Like an awful lot of people including opponents, just observers, and even supporters I've learned that VY can exceed just about anybodys expectations
for him. He has been truly special up to now and his incredible career could continue to only go one way and that's straight up. In spite of all that, I still think there's a reasonable chance we could be better off with MS over the long-term than VY.
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Old 08-30-2007   #57
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Default Re: What could have been...

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
This is not to say that the Texans couldn't win with VY. I wouldn't have wanted to draft him if I felt that way. VY with good QB coaching and an electric atmosphere could be amazing. I'm not sure the choice ever was between fans in the seats or building a team the *right way* for long term success. There is no one right way to build a team, and it is quite possible that VY could have been the foundation for success for a decade.

I don't have any issues with him either. I absolutely agree that he could have been a long term solution. As we know, it was about timing. It wasn't about Vince Young which in my opinion is what makes this organization so great. It wasn't about Vince Young. It wasn't about David Carr. It was about the Texans. At the time, the decisions that were made were thought to give the Texans the best chance to win. I don't buy that McNair was "win with Carr or else." in his coach interviews. I do buy that he had a quarterback that he / the team had invested alot of time and money into and there was a motivation to make it work with the parts that we had already invested so much time in.

It wasn't until after the coach said that he THOUGHT he could make it work that the bonus was paid to Carr.

I do think that the "right way" is passing on the hometown hero because at that time it wasn't thought that it would be in the best interest of the team. Passing on a running back that doesn't ideally fit the system and choosing a less popular player that the organization believed gave the Texans a better chance of success represents that kind of thinking as well.

I do want to reference the Patriots organization again, everyone used to talk about how it was a team of not so flashy guys that have this extremely tight knit team that didn't really have a single standout. Even their superstar quarterback remained a modest member of the team and still does through all their success.

Players want to play there. not just to win, but to be a part of that organization. I feel like that's what we're building towards. I'm not comparing us to them, I"m just saying I feel like that there are similarities there.
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