Texans/Cowboys game observations

Dunta was flat out impressive - coverage and against the run. He will be an All-Pro this year if the team can start turning some heads.

We went to a shot gun formation on the offense's second snap and JJ was called for illegal formation. We then abandoned the formation until we went back to it the next possession I believe. The Cowboys blitzed on this play, Winston went left to double team with Weary and allowed Burnet to go untouched on the edge. Schaub sacked, shotgun formation not looking to hot from a results stand point.

Winston again did the same thing when Green got smacked in the backfield. I like Winston, but on the surface these two misses are unacceptable. He is no longer invited to breakfast at my house.

Saw an empty backfield a number of times. It was like Kubiak was bringing his playbook to life like a Fathead Pop-up Book.

Barber was around the ball and showed why he is solid in coverage. He did get flagged on the play, but that foul had nothing to do with making that terrific interception.

CC Brown and J Black make me want to puke.

Simmons hit hard...Fletcher looked good in the nickel...Bennett could not wrap a WR, looked weak...Pitts looked good on the screen...Studdard makes this team...I am worried about LT, I would not mind seeing Pitts get some reps at LT.....A Davis makes this team

I wonder if the Winston problem on the blitz was Winston or the scheme. The Texsans always seem to have more problems with the blitz than other teams.

The team also needs to figure out the shotgun. Is it that hard?

Jordan Black has looked as bad as I thought he was. He seemed like a waste of money at the time and continues to look the same way to me. I don't like rolling the dice on Salaam's continued health. These coaches have shown no desire to use Pitts at tackle. That is one critical position with little depth.

I just checked the roster after the cuts and I found it interesting that Pitts is suddenly listed as a G/T.

I think they've got the same worry about Mr. Black that I do. If Ephraim goes down, we're in big trouble with Jordan Black out there.

I still worry about left tackle and center. We may be in for a season of Schaub making the line look good rather than the line being good. That is good enough, but definitely the lesser of the two options. The offense definitely rolled yesterday with Schaub's pocket presence.

Ahman Green is really good at blitz pickup. He was low yardage last season with GB because he had to stay in so often and help the rookie OLs protect Favre. You are going to like his pass blocking back there.

Kaiser Toro said:

Dunta was flat out impressive - coverage and against the run. He will be an All-Pro this year if the team can start turning some heads.

We went to a shot gun formation on the offense's second snap and JJ was called for illegal formation. We then abandoned the formation until we went back to it the next possession I believe. The Cowboys blitzed on this play, Winston went left to double team with Weary and allowed Burnet to go untouched on the edge. Schaub sacked, shotgun formation not looking to hot from a results stand point.

Winston again did the same thing when Green got smacked in the backfield. I like Winston, but on the surface these two misses are unacceptable. He is no longer invited to breakfast at my house.

Saw an empty backfield a number of times. It was like Kubiak was bringing his playbook to life like a Fathead Pop-up Book.

Barber was around the ball and showed why he is solid in coverage. He did get flagged on the play, but that foul had nothing to do with making that terrific interception.

CC Brown and J Black make me want to puke.

Simmons hit hard...Fletcher looked good in the nickel...Bennett could not wrap a WR, looked weak...Pitts looked good on the screen...Studdard makes this team...I am worried about LT, I would not mind seeing Pitts get some reps at LT.....A Davis makes this team

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Dunat looks freaking awesome that's for sure, I agree we could see him in a pro bowl at the level he is playing.

And JJ is showing to be a very smart draft choice, he will have a great year I think.

Walter looked good to me, made some good grabs, he is solid.

OD is looking real good. Not afraid to make the tough grabs in traffic.

Green looks like he has plenty of gas in the tank to be effective. And I strongly second the comment about his blitz pick up, it is very good.

Schaub is a fiery competitor, did you see those fist pumps after the first TD pass. He is making very good decisions and shows good placement with the ball.

I really liked what I saw on Saturday, Kubiak has the guys playing very hard.


Get ready for a good solid year, I think we finally break through the ole .500 mark with style and go 9-7.

Kaiser Toro said:

Dunta was flat out impressive - coverage and against the run. He will be an All-Pro this year if the team can start turning some heads.

We went to a shot gun formation on the offense's second snap and JJ was called for illegal formation. We then abandoned the formation until we went back to it the next possession I believe. The Cowboys blitzed on this play, Winston went left to double team with Weary and allowed Burnet to go untouched on the edge. Schaub sacked, shotgun formation not looking to hot from a results stand point.

Winston again did the same thing when Green got smacked in the backfield. I like Winston, but on the surface these two misses are unacceptable. He is no longer invited to breakfast at my house.

Saw an empty backfield a number of times. It was like Kubiak was bringing his playbook to life like a Fathead Pop-up Book.

Barber was around the ball and showed why he is solid in coverage. He did get flagged on the play, but that foul had nothing to do with making that terrific interception.

CC Brown and J Black make me want to puke.

Simmons hit hard...Fletcher looked good in the nickel...Bennett could not wrap a WR, looked weak...Pitts looked good on the screen...Studdard makes this team...I am worried about LT, I would not mind seeing Pitts get some reps at LT.....A Davis makes this team

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I personally liked hit CC put on TO to make him drop ball, don't seem to remember him doing much

The Pencil Neck said:

I just checked the roster after the cuts and I found it interesting that Pitts is suddenly listed as a G/T.

I think they've got the same worry about Mr. Black that I do. If Ephraim goes down, we're in big trouble with Jordan Black out there.

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If you are putting your best five on the field, and Salaam goes down, I think you are better off with Flanagan, McKinney, Pitts than McKinney, Pitts, Black.

Arguably, even with a health Salaam, you might be better with Flanagan, McKinney, Pitts.

TexansSB07 said:

I personally liked hit CC put on TO to make him drop ball, don't seem to remember him doing much

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Umm, I think that was D-Rob that made that hit.

Kaiser Toro said:

Dunta was flat out impressive - coverage and against the run. He will be an All-Pro this year if the team can start turning some heads.

We went to a shot gun formation on the offense's second snap and JJ was called for illegal formation. We then abandoned the formation until we went back to it the next possession I believe. The Cowboys blitzed on this play, Winston went left to double team with Weary and allowed Burnet to go untouched on the edge. Schaub sacked, shotgun formation not looking to hot from a results stand point.

Winston again did the same thing when Green got smacked in the backfield. I like Winston, but on the surface these two misses are unacceptable. He is no longer invited to breakfast at my house.

Saw an empty backfield a number of times. It was like Kubiak was bringing his playbook to life like a Fathead Pop-up Book.

Barber was around the ball and showed why he is solid in coverage. He did get flagged on the play, but that foul had nothing to do with making that terrific interception.

CC Brown and J Black make me want to puke.

Simmons hit hard...Fletcher looked good in the nickel...Bennett could not wrap a WR, looked weak...Pitts looked good on the screen...Studdard makes this team...I am worried about LT, I would not mind seeing Pitts get some reps at LT.....A Davis makes this team

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Good posting KT. After reflecting on the game this morning, there wasn't much I could be too picky about. The defensive line was getting good pressure on Romo (especially Okoye and MW, which was good to see.) The offense was moving the ball at will. The line failed to pick up some blitzes occasionally, but Dallas is a fantastic blitzing team and Schaub showed good pocket presence evading the rush with only one sack (one that would have resulted in a fumble had the other #8 been behind center.) The one negative I saw was the lack of turnovers with our first team defense. The line was getting pressure on Romo, making him throw on the run, and this needs to result in turnovers. We can't be a playoff team if we perenially rank in bottom of the league in turnover ratio.

Also, Kubiak's presser comment on Spencer has me terribly concerned. I agree that it might be in our best interest to move Pitts to LT if Salaam goes down. Though I wouldn't be at all opposed to playing a line of Pitts-Studdard-McKinney-Weary-Winston as opposed to Pitts-McKinney-Flanagan-Weary-Winston. I know Flanagan has the veteran advantage, but if last season is any indication of the contribution we'll get from him, I don't see why we can't get the rookie in there and see if he's someone we can count on in the future.

Anyways, I loved what I saw last night. I was just hoping to see us hang with the aggressive defense Dallas has been throwing out there this preseason and we straight out beat it. Let's hope we keep it up when it counts.

Studdard looked very good. He does a great job of getting to the second level. His motor is higher than about any OLman I've seen. I'd like to see that kid out there also. Hopefully he won't be needed much this year but I agree that he makes the team and will eventually force playing time.

I felt the schemes were off, too, for Winston. The coaches need to evaluate those plays closely. Winston hit the body in front of him, but there was clearly nobody anywhere near the guy coming off the line. Whether that becomes Winston's problem or the QB should be reading that and making an adjustment (if he is allowed to make that kind of an adjustment) - I have no idea. But I don't want to immediately fault Winston. I suspect a TE or RB was supposed to be there.

On the other hand, there was at least once or twice where the DE pushed Salaam around like he was nothing. Circumnavigated the guy and spun him like a top. I'm not thrilled with that. That happened too often last year, and I don't expect defenses to forget about it this year.

Texans Horror said:

I felt the schemes were off, too, for Winston. The coaches need to evaluate those plays closely. Winston hit the body in front of him, but there was clearly nobody anywhere near the guy coming off the line. Whether that becomes Winston's problem or the QB should be reading that and making an adjustment (if he is allowed to make that kind of an adjustment) - I have no idea. But I don't want to immediately fault Winston. I suspect a TE or RB was supposed to be there.

On the other hand, there was at least once or twice where the DE pushed Salaam around like he was nothing. Circumnavigated the guy and spun him like a top. I'm not thrilled with that. That happened too often last year, and I don't expect defenses to forget about it this year.

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I think the pass play in which Winston blocked down instead of picking up the outside pressure was just a missed call. To me it appeared like Winston intentionally blocked down expecting help from the RB to pick up the outside rush. Obviously there was nobody in the backfield to pick him up. Kubiak pionted out that Winston made a couple uncommon mistakes.

Hopefully these missed assignments are worked out by the end of pre-season.

The Pencil Neck said:

I just checked the roster after the cuts and I found it interesting that Pitts is suddenly listed as a G/T.

I think they've got the same worry about Mr. Black that I do. If Ephraim goes down, we're in big trouble with Jordan Black out there.

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I to share your concern about a lineup with Black at LT. Dang, its exciting enough to have Salaam in there.
I dunno, but how are the Chiefs a playoff team last year with Black as their LT starter for all but a couple games ?
Good eye to catch that listing of Pitts on the roster as a "G/T". I'm hoping Kubiak elaborates on that first chance he gets, but suspect its linked to his
admission that Spencer almost certainly won't be back atleast this year. And
oh yea, he's probably not feeling any more confidant about Black as Salaams
backup than the rest of us are ?

Both of those mistakes were on Winston...

The scheme had nothing ot do with the missed assignments from him....

nunusguy said:

I dunno, but how are the Chiefs a playoff team last year with Black as their LT starter for all but a couple games ?

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They snuck into the play-offs at 9-7...... & they lost that play-off game (IMHO) mainly due to blacks inabillity to play LT.

Good observations KT as usual.

I'm really liking what I've seen from Studdard. Guy plays with intesity and fire. That alone is something this line needs and he'll make the team easy IMO.

I am nervous as well about C and LT. I'm wondering if we'll see any of Chris White Thursday. At least seeing Pitts listed as G/T shows that the Coaching staff is just as nervous about the LT spot. I think Black is probably better suited to go to RT if he's needed hell or maybe guard. I hope this inspires the Staff to Keep Brandon Frye and develop him cause there's no way he passes waivers.

I still worry about left tackle and center. We may be in for a season of Schaub making the line look good rather than the line being good. That is good enough, but definitely the lesser of the two options. The offense definitely rolled yesterday with Schaub's pocket presence.

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I think we'll have the answer to the question about the O-line or the QB. Right now it ooks like a little of both but a Huge difference what a smart QB can do given a shaky line.

nunusguy said:

I to share your concern about a lineup with Black at LT. Dang, its exciting enough to have Salaam in there.
I dunno, but how are the Chiefs a playoff team last year with Black as their LT starter for all but a couple games ?
Good eye to catch that listing of Pitts on the roster as a "G/T". I'm hoping Kubiak elaborates on that first chance he gets, but suspect its linked to his
admission that Spencer almost certainly won't be back atleast this year. And
oh yea, he's probably not feeling any more confidant about Black as Salaams
backup than the rest of us are ?

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I talked to Spencer before the game while the team was warming up. I asked him when he will be back and he held up seven fingers. He was like yeah I think sooner but it's up to the doctors. Told him that we really needed his big @ss to get back on the field.

I would like the Texans to stop the other team from converting on third down. That's a pass rush/coverage thing.

By the way, the Texans are currently #1 in the entire league in scoring offense. After playing both the Bears and the Cowboys, teams known for their defenses. Pretty cool huh.

One of the most pleasant things to see as a fan of this team was all the guys celebrating together...The guys really seem to like one another...

That is one of the signs of a winning football team....Guys that like eachother...

I saw everybody congratulating everybody....That was really nice to see...

Texans_Chick said:

I would like the Texans to stop the other team from converting on third down. That's a pass rush/coverage thing.

By the way, the Texans are currently #1 in the entire league in scoring offense. After playing both the Bears and the Cowboys, teams known for their defenses. Pretty cool huh.

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That's what impresses me. Almost as much as the rush D statistics.

Texans_Chick said:

I would like the Texans to stop the other team from converting on third down. That's a pass rush/coverage thing.

By the way, the Texans are currently #1 in the entire league in scoring offense. After playing both the Bears and the Cowboys, teams known for their defenses. Pretty cool huh.

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Yeah, but it is only pre-season.

signed,
typical cowpie fan

One of the major concerns I have after the Cowboys game is our secondary. I think teams are going to be able to go with 4 or 5 wideouts & exploit our secondary. It makes the need for a consistent & ferocious pass rush all the more important. If we can get in the QBs face our secondary won't have to cover as long & we might force a few turnovers. Definately a big concern heading into the season.

I posted it in another thread, but it bears repeating: The O-line is still not good. I am glad that I am not the only one to notice. They did not form pockets well for most of the game, so when they did, it was definitely noticeable. I like their run blocking, though, and Pitts looks like he was pushing people around very well for someone with a strained back. That was very encouraging. The center (can't recall if it was McK or Flanagan) got pushed into the backfield a couple times on pass pro. It was reminiscent of 2004-era McKinney when he gave up no sacks, but was always in the backfield, disrupting the play. Winston's issues seem to be mental/assignment-type things, which I don't worry too much about. That can be corrected by film study, coaching, and on-field communication.

All in all, I think Runner said it best - we may be in for a year of Schaub making this line look better than they are. Given the alternatives, I have to be OK with that, but I don't get a warm fuzzy about it, that's for sure.

After watching a little more of the game on the replay. Did anyone notice the block that Salaam laid on Roy Williams on the Green 46 yd run? I loved it.

M Shadows said:

After watching a little more of the game on the replay. Did anyone notice the block that Salaam laid on Roy Williams? I loved it.

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I'm not sure to which one you refer, but after Roy Williams failed to wrap up Ahman Green, resulting in that big run, Salaam and Pitts sandwiched Williams, taking him out of the play. It was must-see TV

I could have sworn that I was told that a good QB cannot make a line look better...

I thought CP looked good out there. And I'm not jumping to any conclusions about the line. They are still in a learning process to know their QB, and this staff will shake things up and drive these guys to get better....unless, of course, it's a 'coaching problem'.

eriadoc said:

I'm not sure to which one you refer, but after Roy Williams failed to wrap up Ahman Green, resulting in that big run, Salaam and Pitts sandwiched Williams, taking him out of the play. It was must-see TV

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That's it.

eriadoc said:

I posted it in another thread, but it bears repeating: The O-line is still not good. I am glad that I am not the only one to notice. They did not form pockets well for most of the game, so when they did, it was definitely noticeable. I like their run blocking, though, and Pitts looks like he was pushing people around very well for someone with a strained back. That was very encouraging. The center (can't recall if it was McK or Flanagan) got pushed into the backfield a couple times on pass pro. It was reminiscent of 2004-era McKinney when he gave up no sacks, but was always in the backfield, disrupting the play. Winston's issues seem to be mental/assignment-type things, which I don't worry too much about. That can be corrected by film study, coaching, and on-field communication.

All in all, I think Runner said it best - we may be in for a year of Schaub making this line look better than they are. Given the alternatives, I have to be OK with that, but I don't get a warm fuzzy about it, that's for sure.

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I think a lot of what you're saying goes under the 'things understood don't need to be explained column'. It's pretty easy to see that there are at least two positions--two key positions--on the line that could use an immediate upgrade. I trust these things will get taken care of though. I have faith in this staff's ability to draft and find ball players. Call me crazy.

I was watching the game with a lineman in high school and he said Studdard looked like a beast.

I think we have in the O line just what we expected. Give the QB enough time to get a play off and to have a QB who can make good quick decisions and quick reads past the primary target. Schaub has done this. RBs, TEs and WR are doing what they are supposed to. LTackle is not going to change as for as talent but just needs to tie up the DE a few seconds. When JB is a LT look for us to run away from that side and maybe pull the guard, like Pitts did at least twice. If we can keep the defense off the field a bit and JJ and Mathis can eat some yards and maybe score a few, we will be better than last season. Let's don't get so focused on where we are headed that we completely forget where we were last season. We also can use Breuner to support JB when he is in there. There are not many other choices unless we want to play Salaam into the ground. Does not look as if Spencer will be back.

Double Barrel said:

I could have sworn that I was told that a good QB cannot make a line look better...

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The key words being "look better" vs. just "better". If McKinney gets blown by and Schaub unloads it before the hit, I don't think the line played better.

As long as the scoreboard is tilted in our favor I don't care if the O-line's play is a mirage...

xtruroyaltyx said:

As long as the scoreboard is tilted in our favor I don't care if the O-line's play is a mirage...

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I think good o-line play would lead to more wins than mirage o-line play. The scoreboard isn't independent of the play on the field (over the long run).

I'm probably wrong about that too.

Runner said:

The key words being "look better" vs. just "better". If McKinney gets blown by and Schaub unloads it before the hit, I don't think the line played better.

Click to expand...

Even Tom Brady and Peyton Manning get pressured from time to time.

Double Barrel said:

Even Tom Brady and Peyton Manning get pressured from time to time.

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Therefore the Texans have a great line.

=====================================

OK, I give in everyone. I don't see a single area to criticize on the line. Run blocking, pass blocking, play recognition, schemes: all outstanding. I used to think the Cowboys of the mid 90's had a great line. They had nothing on this unit.

"All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds." - Dr. Pangloss

xtruroyaltyx said:

One of the most pleasant things to see as a fan of this team was all the guys celebrating together...The guys really seem to like one another...

That is one of the signs of a winning football team....Guys that like eachother...

I saw everybody congratulating everybody....That was really nice to see...

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Could not agree more. One thing I noticed was when Bennett had the interception he lost the ball, after the play was over, and went to the sideline. Brandon Mitchell wound up getting the ball and was in an enthusiastic, almost frantic state in an apparent attempt to give the first intercepted ball by Bennett to him on the sidelines.

Kaiser Toro said:

Could not agree more. One thing I noticed was when Bennett had the interception he lost the ball, after the play was over, and went to the sideline. Brandon Mitchell wound up getting the ball and was in an enthusiastic, almost frantic state in an apparent attempt to give the first intercepted ball by Bennett to him on the sidelines.

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Too cool for words!

Texan Asylum said:

Too cool for words!

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You see it happen many times, but I just do not recall it being so animated, as it struck me, especially by a guy who may not make the squad (Mitchell). That is what made me pause and think that there is something going on in that locker room that has not been seen from a Texan team in the past - a hint or whiff that an identity or culture of a team is being formed and felt by players whose time may be short with the Texans, but are wrapped up in it because it is contagious.

I read into things to much at times and attach my own thoughts based on previous experiences in sports, but there is just a feeling about this organization right now that is totally different than the last five years.

Runner said:

Therefore the Texans have a great line.

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I never said that.

I just don't think the sky is falling when I see the line play. Ask yourself why we still have three linemen from the 2002 squad, yet so many other positions have experienced turnover. Are the coaches blind to what you think you see as obvious?

Or, could it be somewhere in the middle. Not the greatest, not the worst, but an average line that can still be good enough for a solid RB and QB to work behind? Of course there is room for criticism, like every position on the team.

Imagine compromise. Not everything is black and white.

Double Barrel said:

I never said that.

I just don't think the sky is falling when I see the line play. Ask yourself why we still have three linemen from the 2002 squad, yet so many other positions have experienced turnover. Are the coaches blind to what you think you see as obvious?

Or, could it be somewhere in the middle. Not the greatest, not the worst, but an average line that can still be good enough for a solid RB and QB to work behind? Of course there is room for criticism, like every position on the team.

Imagine compromise. Not everything is black and white.

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I have actually said similar to many of my friends. IMO, Pitts would start for most, if not all, teams in the NFL. McKinney would probably start for most. Weary has improved over the past couple of years and might start for quite a few teams now. But none of these guys are great - solid, average guys that would work well in a good system.

The problem is, most good O-lines have one or maybe two stellar linemen that improve the play of those around him. For some teams, that's the left tackle, but for others, it's a different guy. I would argue that it's Saturday for the Colts, as opposed to Tarik Glenn, for example. Regardless, the point is that we don't have that one guy. We have a few average guys that have been asked to learn a new system every year or couple of years.

I don't think this O-line will be average, but I do think Schaub will make them look better than they actually are. And in this particular area, I do not like the mentality of aspiring to mediocrity.

Good post, eriadoc.

Just curious, though, what measurement(s) would you use to distinguish between a 'mediocre' line and an 'average' line?

If Green has a 1,000-1,200 yard season?

If Schaub is sacked less than 25 times this season?

I ask because many seem to have a logic that the line operates independently from the team.

And I mention this because Runner said "I used to think the Cowboys of the mid 90's had a great line." Would it have been as great of a line with David Carr and Ron Dayne behind it? I think having multiple HoF players at skill positions makes a huge difference, as well. We've only had one true playmaker in AJ, and the rest have been mediocre to downright horrible players.

If Shaub makes the line look better than they actually are, then doesn't this same logic apply to other teams, too?

I'm not sure our staff is "aspiring to mediocrity", but rather working with what we've got at the moment. With the problems Kubiak & Co. inherited (i.e. $30 million in dead cap, craptastic QB, etc.), I think they are addressing the more pressing areas first. Obviously they do not see the o-line as being as sorry as many make it out to be, or they would have moved to upgrade it in the off-season accordingly.

Double Barrel said:

I'm not sure our staff is "aspiring to mediocrity", but rather working with what we've got at the moment. With the problems Kubiak & Co. inherited (i.e. $30 million in dead cap, craptastic QB, etc.), I think they are addressing the more pressing areas first. Obviously they do not see the o-line as being as sorry as many make it out to be, or they would have moved to upgrade it in the off-season accordingly.

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IMHO, O-lines are pretty generic around the NFL....

People write off our linemen and have already labled them 'mediocre' or 'bad', which I think is crazy because most people maybe average 1 or 2 plays they look at the O-line per game...if that....

Last year we had an injured, fat Ron Dayne in the backfield along with a late round Rookie, and an overweight injured Gado...Yeah, it's the line'ss fault our running game suffered....

I'm not going to even start with the passing game because I think David Carr was terrible and he single handedly has the ability to kill any offense...Especially an offense not filled to the brim with pro-bowlers...

Give the O-line a chance...Most of you guys wanted to hold off judgement on Carr till he got a better line....Why don't you hold off judgement on the line now that David is gone???....Lets see how our line performs with a better RB, in Green, and QB in Schaub....With some offensive explosion in Jacoby....

Of course they still need help, but to act as if they are dragging the team down or are terrible is a stretch IMO....Those guys up front are all ball players...

Double Barrel said:

Good post, eriadoc.

Just curious, though, what measurement(s) would you use to distinguish between a 'mediocre' line and an 'average' line?

If Green has a 1,000-1,200 yard season?

If Schaub is sacked less than 25 times this season?

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To me, there aren't really any indicative stats of line play. Our line has always done pretty well in the running game, and I think most linemen prefer run blocking. Going out and smacking someone in the teeth is preferable to sitting back and waiting to get smacked. The pass pro on this team has always been subpar-to-terrible, however. They are two different beasts.

I watch plenty of football games in which the Texans are not involved. I watch to see how the line forms a pocket for the QB. I compare that to how our team does, and I have seen a consistent disparity between what our guys accomplish and what other teams accomplish. And I don't just refer to elite teams. Our guys simply do not pass block very well, irrespective of what the QB or RBs do. Just because the line doesn't pass block well on any given play doesn't mean it's a busted play, nor does the reverse apply. But teams that consistently keep pressure away from the QB more often than not simply do well over a full season. So I am pretty much watching how the line, as a unit, keeps the opposing team's front four at bay (I try to make the distinction on blitzes).

The other two areas that I see problems with in our O-line (again, no stats) are footwork and communication. I am no expert on NFL line play, so you can disregard everything I say, but again, I see the way other teams' line aligns themselves beside each other. The spacing is not as consistent from our guys, and the difference between passing and rushing plays is sometimes so evident from the line's positioning, that you can call rush or pass just as they set. If I'm picking that up as a fan, you can bet opposing coaches and players are picking up on it.

On the communication, I see plays where it's fairly evident that there was a miscommunication (example: Eric Winston vs. Cowboys). That stuff happens to all teams, but with our team trying to build consistency, it does seem to happen to us a fair bit more than most teams. I don't worry too much about this stuff, because it got better as the year progressed last year, and it's a coaching thing. I have a great deal more confidence in this staff than the last, so I don't worry too much about that aspect. But I see it, nonetheless, and it is a measure of where they are as a unit.

Most of my observations have been from the past three seasons, as I really didn't start analyzing line play for the first couple, just buying the stock excuse of a poor O-line. I do think a better line would have, and will in the future, help this team more than any other aspect, but that doesn't mean I blame all the woes on them. It's just one of the most important areas of any NFL team, and largely ignored by most fanbases. So all of this is just based on my observations and opinion and could very well be full of dung. Take it FWIW. But I do not base my opinion on stats, because the O-line is the unit that can least be measured by stats.

Double Barrel said:

I'm not sure our staff is "aspiring to mediocrity", but rather working with what we've got at the moment. With the problems Kubiak & Co. inherited (i.e. $30 million in dead cap, craptastic QB, etc.), I think they are addressing the more pressing areas first. Obviously they do not see the o-line as being as sorry as many make it out to be, or they would have moved to upgrade it in the off-season accordingly.

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The same could be said for the secondary. Personally, I think they are just addressing things as they see the opportunity, since it's not like they are just one or two pieces away from a SB. The opportunities haven't really been there for O-line, short of what they've done, so we'll see how it goes. I'm not going all Chicken Little on this; I'm just pointing out what I see.

eriadoc said:

I watch plenty of football games in which the Texans are not involved. I watch to see how the line forms a pocket for the QB. I compare that to how our team does, and I have seen a consistent disparity between what our guys accomplish and what other teams accomplish.

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I seriously think folks just need to pay more attention...

Good pass rushing defenses are going to get pressure on just about everybody...otherwise they wouldn't be considered good pass rusing D's...

When you have guys like Jason Taylor and Joey Porter coming off the edge, unless you have Tarik Glen at one tackle and Walter Jones at the other, chances are one of those guys is going to get some heat on your QB...

Just about every team has a good pass rusher...Look around the league...

DE's don't become famous and gain notierity because a majority of teams around the league are "forming great pockets" or what ever it is you said.....

Merriman isn't Merriman if most teams are forming great pockets....


I wonder when this concept of QB's dropping back everytime and sitting in the middle of this crescent shaped fortress came about...Teams are going to get pressure...that's just a fact of life...It's a combination of things that will determine whether or not a team will be successful against that pressure...

Think about it....In order to get pressure, all you have to do is bring one more guy than an offense has blocking...That's not even taking into acount a guy like Jason Taylor flat out beating his guy.....TEAMS WILL GET PRESSURE....


You say you watch other teams...well, I don't believe it...

eriadoc said:

The same could be said for the secondary.

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No....it can't.


You don't put your franchise QB behind a line you think will get him killed.

xtruroyaltyx said:

One of the most pleasant things to see as a fan of this team was all the guys celebrating together...The guys really seem to like one another...

That is one of the signs of a winning football team....Guys that like eachother...

I saw everybody congratulating everybody....That was really nice to see...

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I have NEVER seen the swagger this team has now - before, during, and after the game. Kept me in my seat until the final ticks of the clock, even though it was a preseason game!

xtruroyaltyx said:

DE's don't become famous and gain notierity because a majority of teams around the league are "forming great pockets" or what ever it is you said.....

Merriman isn't Merriman if most teams are forming great pockets....


I wonder when this concept of QB's dropping back everytime and sitting in the middle of this crescent shaped fortress came about...Teams are going to get pressure...that's just a fact of life...It's a combination of things that will determine whether or not a team will be successful against that pressure...

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No one said teams are always going to get a perfect pocket. Likewise no team is always going to get good pressure. We lose more battles than we win in the trenches, at least for now. And no one said the protection is going to hold up for a great deal of time. Take a look at the Jacoby Jones TD pass in the Cowboys game. Schaub had to scramble out and make a play. That's what good QBs do. The pocket on that play was very good though. That doesn't mean it's going to hold up for long enough that Schaub can have tea and crumpets back there. Go back and compare the pocket that the team formed on that play to most of the rest of the first half and you should see what I'm saying.

Jesus, it seems like when anyone tries to make a point on here, it has to be 100% all the time, in absolutes. Of course defenses get pressure. Of course there are elite defensemen that consistently get pressure. That doesn't mean they get there every play. If the trench play swings definitely in favor of one team, their chances of victory go up. It's not a black and white absolute like you're trying to make it sound.

xtruroyaltyx said:

Think about it....In order to get pressure, all you have to do is bring one more guy than an offense has blocking...That's not even taking into acount a guy like Jason Taylor flat out beating his guy.....TEAMS WILL GET PRESSURE....

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And you'll note that I specifically said I try to account for blitzing in my evaluation. Furthermore, if we can force a team to blitz to get pressure, we've already swung the pendulum our way. That leaves the LBs and secondary a bit more vulnerable, which a good QB/WR/RB group will exploit. Things understood shouldn't need to be explained.

xtruroyaltyx said:

You say you watch other teams...well, I don't believe it...

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I'm not sure I believe that you watch the O-line with a critical eye, but whatever. I really don't care what you believe. DB asked what my criteria were, and I explained my viewpoint. Believe what you want.

eriadoc said:

I watch plenty of football games in which the Texans are not involved. I watch to see how the line forms a pocket for the QB. I compare that to how our team does, and I have seen a consistent disparity between what our guys accomplish and what other teams accomplish. And I don't just refer to elite teams. Our guys simply do not pass block very well, irrespective of what the QB or RBs do. Just because the line doesn't pass block well on any given play doesn't mean it's a busted play, nor does the reverse apply. But teams that consistently keep pressure away from the QB more often than not simply do well over a full season. So I am pretty much watching how the line, as a unit, keeps the opposing team's front four at bay (I try to make the distinction on blitzes).

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I watch a lot of NFL, as well, and even more now with NFLN.

I see consistent play from offensive lines that have a solid QB and know what he's going to do on a given play. These guys still get beat, too, which is why even the 'best' lines give up sacks and hurries from time to time.

But it takes time to develop the bond within an offense between the line and skill players. There is an intuition that must be developed through repetition and trust is built from on-field situations.

We have had anything but consistency from our QB the past five seasons, and this has a direct correlation to what our line is about. Over time, I think you will see a line emerge in front of Schaub that will solidify into something dependable.

I'm not blaming YKW for everything, but his inability to be a decent QB does bear some connection to the protection breakdowns. When a QB is unable to read defenses or feel the pressure, linemen have no idea what to expect from such erratic play.

I don't think a QB can make a line look better as much as he can help them be better. But, it is a matter of reaching potential that already existed, IMO.

Double Barrel said:

I watch a lot of NFL, as well, and even more now with NFLN.

I see consistent play from offensive lines that have a solid QB and know what he's going to do on a given play. These guys still get beat, too, which is why even the 'best' lines give up sacks and hurries from time to time.

But it takes time to develop the bond within an offense between the line and skill players. There is an intuition that must be developed through repetition and trust is built from on-field situations.

We have had anything but consistency from our QB the past five seasons, and this has a direct correlation to what our line is about. Over time, I think you will see a line emerge in front of Schaub that will solidify into something dependable.

I'm not blaming YKW for everything, but his inability to be a decent QB does bear some connection to the protection breakdowns. When a QB is unable to read defenses or feel the pressure, linemen have no idea what to expect from such erratic play.

I don't think a QB can make a line look better as much as he can help them be better. But, it is a matter of reaching potential that already existed, IMO.

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I don't completely share your optimism, but I don't think we're as far apart as it might sound. A solid QB does make a world of difference. And people tend not to bother watching the line when the offense is functioning. Every team does get beat; I am nowhere close to saying otherwise. I just don't think our line, as a unit, is very good at pass pro. Whether that is something that they can be coached into remains to be seen. I am optimistic about Winston, and I have high hopes for Studdard. I like Pitts and Weary. McKinney and Flanagan, on pass pro, worry me. Salaam has his ups and downs. I think, regardless of the level of coaching or QB play that occurs, we are still at least one good lineman away from being a consistent offense, assuming Winston matures as I expect. At this point, we do not have the consistency in pass pro where it needs to be.