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Old 08-19-2007   #161
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Originally Posted by Pantherstang84 View Post
That statement above is gross exageration.
I ddon't think it was.

There was one play where MArio rushed up field and litterally fell down and slid on his arse...He looked awful on that particular play...Terrible technique...Terrible agility....He just looked awful...

On other plays I found myslef looking at Mario being one of the furthest D-linemen from the QB...Looking over the O-linemens head like a guy looking over a wall trying to see what was going on "over there"....

Quote:
Which 2 D linemen were everyone calling a bust last year?

Which 2 D linemen have everyone singing their praises this year?
You can check my post history...

I've always said I though Travis Johnson was a good ball player and I've always wanted Babin to get more time on the field because of his pass rushing...really...go back and check...

nice try though...
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Old 08-19-2007   #162
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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
. I think the quick first step is more of a mental aspect Marion hasn't displayed. If that even makes sense.
I think it's part mental part physical...
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Old 08-19-2007   #163
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Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
I ddon't think it was.
I do.

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Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
You can check my post history...
I don't want to. Despite using your exagerration as the example, the post was directed at all of the Mario whiners.

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Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
nice try though...
Thank you.
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Old 08-19-2007   #164
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Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
I think it's part mental part physical...
What about the metaphysical aspect?

Ask for the QB sack.
Believe you will get the QB sack.
Collect the QB sack.

It's as easy as A-B-C. I'm shocked that QBs aren't sacked on every play, it's so easy.
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Old 08-19-2007   #165
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I saw Mario attempt a swim move and fall on his face at least twice, maybe 3 times. Shows a guy that got by in his career by being able to just shove guys over because of physical superiority. Now, that he is probably weaker than 90% of the guys he goes against, he has no clue what to do.
I think we're still seeing this Mario...
(from Scouts Inc.)

Quote:
Weaknesses: Technique is still unpolished. He has a tendency to play too high at times. Runs around too many blocks and takes himself out of position at times, as a result. He needs to do a better job of using his long arms and hands to keep separation from blockers. He takes too long to disengage from blocks and will get frustrated by the double team too often. His motor runs hot-and-cold. He played with more intensity during the second-half of his junior season but still took far too many plays off throughout 2005.
Now this info was available at the time of the draft; in fact, some guys even mentioned it. So should we be mad at Mario for still being Mario? Or should we be mad at the scouting dept., Casserly, et. al. for not doing enough homework??

I'm just askin'?

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Old 08-19-2007   #166
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I think it's part mental part physical...
like Yogi said
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"Ninety percent of this game is half mental."
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Old 08-19-2007   #167
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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I think we're still seeing this Mario...
(from Scouts Inc.)



Now this info was available at the time of the draft; in fact, some guys even mentioned it. So should we be mad at Mario for still being Mario? Or should we be mad at the scouting dept., Casserly, et. al. for not doing enough homework??
I'm just askin'?
personally I blame McNair and Kubiak. Casserley wanted to draft Bush. Casserley liked Mario but even he wasn't stupid enough to decide to Mario over Bush. Only someone as meddling as McNair could greenlight an idea that horrible...and Kubiak gets blame for being too weak to demand that we draft the best player available and not just the cleanest or most signable. At the end of the day, its all about McNair being ignorant, stubborn, and cheap and not wanting Bush after his family's housing situation during his USC time.
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Old 08-19-2007   #168
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personally I blame McNair and Kubiak. Casserley wanted to draft Bush. Casserley liked Mario but even he wasn't stupid enough to decide to Mario over Bush. Only someone as meddling as McNair could greenlight an idea that horrible...and Kubiak gets blame for being too weak to demand that we draft the best player available and not just the cleanest or most signable. At the end of the day, its all about McNair being ignorant, stubborn, and cheap and not wanting Bush after his family's housing situation during his USC time.

i wish i had 1/10 the inside info you seem to have.
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Old 08-19-2007   #169
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i really hope we dont have another David Carr situation brewing with Mario Williams we all want him to do good but he sure isn't helping his case @ all.
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Old 08-20-2007   #170
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Even if the Frank Bush-Richard Smith tandem is what Kubiak wanted as his first choice last year, there is nothing with them that makes me think--yeah, these are the guys I want running my defense.

Jethro Franklin is the defensive line coach. (with an assist from Bush) He got canned from the Tampa Bay. Rod Marinelli was their defensive line coach, then he left for Detroit. Then Franklin came from USC, and then got canned by the Bucs after their D line had a crap pass rush--including the Bucs lowest sack totals since 1995. (He coached the line at GB between 2000-2004). He was signed for a two year contract with TB, but was canned after one year.

Sometimes fans don't know all the reasons why particular guys were picked to be coaches, but from what I've seen, I've never been comfortable with this staff having a consistant proven defensive philosophy.

Some years there are some really good coaches available to be an assistant. Last year wasn't the bestest year to pick.
There was one that you must know about since you and I have discussed this on other threads. That one being Jim Bates, a highly respected Defensive Coordinator with ties to Mike Sherman, or at the least Green Bay, and now with ties to Denver as well since he has been hired this year as Mike Shanahan's new Defensive Coordinator. I remember the objection to him being brought in being about money. With coaches salaries not counting towards the salary cap it makes me sick to think that the Texans lost out on a much more qualified Defensive Coordinator then Richard Smith, or even Frank Bush for that matter, over money.

Another defensive-minded coach with ties to both Gary Kubiak and Mike Sherman, that has come to my mind many times is former Texas A&M Head Coach R.C. Slocum. Say what you will about his overly predictable offenses when he was the ATM Head Coach, but one thing was certain he could run a hell of a good defense. I know some are going to say but he was only a college coach and he won't be able to translate that success to the NFL. Those people probably don't realize that Marty Schottenheimer came to R.C. Slocum before to get pointers on running defense.
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Old 08-20-2007   #171
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Guys and gals I think WE HAVE TO ADMIT that Mario is not as good as he should be for the #1 overall pick in the draft and we need to start managing our expectations of him accordingly.

It is not his fault that he was drafted that highly and I'm sure he is doing the best that he can. We all know the draft is a crap shoot and I believe it is obvious that MW just is NOT the impact player we all hoped he would be.

Now let's just sit back and admit he was not worthy of the #1 pick, not a knock on him but, those who thought he was, and allow him to develop into a solid, not spectacular DE.

EVERYBODY is going to say that we should not say ANYTHING about Amobi because he is so young and he has only had 2 pre-season games.

But, as the #10 draft pick, he SHOULD show SOMETHING, ala Adam Carriker, and others. We have street FA's who show us more and with HIS PEDIGREE we should have seen something.

Again, it is not his fault we drafted him as highly as we did, it is the FO and coaching staff. So far, he has pretty much been overmatched at DT and he hasn't really shown anything for us to feel he warranted the #10 pick in the draft.

So, I believe we need to adjust our expectations of AO, too. I don't think he will ever be a very good DT in this league. In fact, I believe they need to put him at DE, leave him there, play him sparingly, and maybe he will develop into a good pash rushing DE in 2-4 years.

Bottom line is that MW and AO are what they are and we can't make them stars because of where they were drafted. It has to come from them and I just don't see it on the field.
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Old 08-20-2007   #172
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You can clearly see he's thinking too much out there which goes back to what Xtru... said in a previous mario thread about his mental game.

He's yet to find that position he's comfortable in where he can play the run & pass equally effective.

He was held ALOT but d-linemen get held pretty much every play... hopefully we get those calls during the regular season.

In all fairness to him though, the d-line as a whole ain't doing much. If Mario's going to be doubled alot, other guys MUST step up to take the heat off of him.

All in all, i'm looking at his body of work last year as a rookie, & i have a hard time believing that he'll be worse than that, I predicted about 8.5 sacks a while ago. I believe In all of the preseason last year, he only had 1 play where he stood out against the rams so i'm not going to panic just yet. Could he have Jeff Bagwell syndrome where he doesn't perform well in the preseason but turns it up a bit in the regular season? Some of us can only hope.
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Old 08-20-2007   #173
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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Guys and gals I think WE HAVE TO ADMIT that Mario is not as good as he should be for the #1 overall pick in the draft and we need to start managing our expectations of him accordingly.

It is not his fault that he was drafted that highly and I'm sure he is doing the best that he can. We all know the draft is a crap shoot and I believe it is obvious that MW just is NOT the impact player we all hoped he would be.

Now let's just sit back and admit he was not worthy of the #1 pick, not a knock on him but, those who thought he was, and allow him to develop into a solid, not spectacular DE.

EVERYBODY is going to say that we should not say ANYTHING about Amobi because he is so young and he has only had 2 pre-season games.

But, as the #10 draft pick, he SHOULD show SOMETHING, ala Adam Carriker, and others. We have street FA's who show us more and with HIS PEDIGREE we should have seen something.

Again, it is not his fault we drafted him as highly as we did, it is the FO and coaching staff. So far, he has pretty much been overmatched at DT and he hasn't really shown anything for us to feel he warranted the #10 pick in the draft.

So, I believe we need to adjust our expectations of AO, too. I don't think he will ever be a very good DT in this league. In fact, I believe they need to put him at DE, leave him there, play him sparingly, and maybe he will develop into a good pash rushing DE in 2-4 years.

Bottom line is that MW and AO are what they are and we can't make them stars because of where they were drafted. It has to come from them and I just don't see it on the field.
Could be the worst post I have seen in years.
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Old 08-20-2007   #174
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Guys and gals I think WE HAVE TO ADMIT that Mario is not as good as he should be for the #1 overall pick in the draft and we need to start managing our expectations of him accordingly.

It is not his fault that he was drafted that highly and I'm sure he is doing the best that he can. We all know the draft is a crap shoot and I believe it is obvious that MW just is NOT the impact player we all hoped he would be.

Now let's just sit back and admit he was not worthy of the #1 pick, not a knock on him but, those who thought he was, and allow him to develop into a solid, not spectacular DE.

EVERYBODY is going to say that we should not say ANYTHING about Amobi because he is so young and he has only had 2 pre-season games.

But, as the #10 draft pick, he SHOULD show SOMETHING, ala Adam Carriker, and others. We have street FA's who show us more and with HIS PEDIGREE we should have seen something.

Again, it is not his fault we drafted him as highly as we did, it is the FO and coaching staff. So far, he has pretty much been overmatched at DT and he hasn't really shown anything for us to feel he warranted the #10 pick in the draft.

So, I believe we need to adjust our expectations of AO, too. I don't think he will ever be a very good DT in this league. In fact, I believe they need to put him at DE, leave him there, play him sparingly, and maybe he will develop into a good pash rushing DE in 2-4 years.

Bottom line is that MW and AO are what they are and we can't make them stars because of where they were drafted. It has to come from them and I just don't see it on the field.
What a terrible outlook on life...

It must be a dark and grim place you live in....


I'm not sure what would cause you to believe that Mario and Amobi "can't" be good ball players....

There have been so many variations of successful athletes in every sporting event that it's almost asanine to suggest that a player that has made it that far "can't" be successful....You have your athletes that aren't that bright but are athletic specimens that have been successful, and then you have your really smart and instinctive guys that didn't have an athletic prowess who have been successful...They can "do it", but they just need to find the right combination...Mario and Amobi's problems are on the totally opposite end of the spectrum...Amobi needs to get stronger...If you really watch the kid and keep an eye on the little things he does you can see a kid with a great motor...I repeat...great....good feet...good hands...and he's heady...he's aware of the situation and what is going on as far as the play is concerned...The guy is 20 yrs. old...By time he is 22 1/2 he will be one of the premier DT's in this leauge if he can stay healthy.....Mario..his mental approach is out of whack...I knew that when he gave his answer to whether or not he hates his opponents...

When I see Mario I don't see a player who's not trying hard, but I do see a player who doesn't want it...He doesn't look thirsty for the QB's sweat...That's something hard to overcome as a player because that's just something that normally comes naturally....But that doesn't mean he can't be an effective football player...

And with A.O. I just flat out disagree...I think the guy is going to be stud...JMO....

Last edited by real; 08-20-2007 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 08-20-2007   #175
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What a terrible outlook on life...

It must be a dark and grim place you live in....

Sorry, this just made me laugh. It was a sad post.
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Old 08-20-2007   #176
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I'm not freakin' out yet......just a little nervous. I didn't read through all these pages, so I don't know if it was posted yet, but these are the things I noticed. I watched the game twice:

1) Mario was held a lot, but it was never called and he should have tried harder to beat it.
2) He was on the ground way too often. He would run to engage the offensive lineman, slip, and fall on his rear. This automatically took him out of the play. I saw this way too much.
3) On the snap, he would run in and look, then nothing would happen so he would engage his blocker in front of him. I saw this constantly. It was really weird to see. There wasn't much effort on his part, atleast what I saw. Without seeing it, this item is hard to explain.
4) Wrong decisions. I saw on a few plays that he must have read inside run, went that way and the ball went around where he should have been at. I don't think it went that way because he forced it to either.

Hopefully he will get better over these last 2 games and maybe we will see more from him when the defense actually starts game planning. Who knows, but there are way too many positives for me to look forward to than to worry about his play or the play of a few others.
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Old 08-20-2007   #177
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Defensive Linemen usually take a couple of years to adjust. That is pretty much fact. We have yet to throw a blitz in there to free things up for the D-Line as well. It is still too early to call anyone a bust or lose sleep over the lack of sacks in these preseason games. How many times did Chicago or Arizona get a sack on Schaub or Sage? Are there fans up in arms about their defensive players?
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Old 08-20-2007   #178
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Defensive Linemen usually take a couple of years to adjust. That is pretty much fact. We have yet to throw a blitz in there to free things up for the D-Line as well. It is still too early to call anyone a bust or lose sleep over the lack of sacks in these preseason games. How many times did Chicago or Arizona get a sack on Schaub or Sage? Are there fans up in arms about their defensive players?
I don't know, but probably, lol. They're probably posting, "The Texans have the worst O-line in forever and we didn't get sacks!"

I keep thinking about that too. I think our O is gonna give more up when it counts, and it stands to reason that our D will get more. I think Mario will have 6 or 7 this year--an improvement, but not enough to make us happy. Course, I'll change my mind one way or another after the Cowboys game.
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Old 08-20-2007   #179
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I read the first few pages and it looks like the main excuse for the D-Line is that they were getting held.

Here's what I know about holding. I know there are plenty other guys that probably know more. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

All D-Linemen get held. The O-Linemen only get called for it when they are grabbing the guy's outside shoulder. In other words, they only get called for it when they make it too obvious. It's on the D-Lineman to find a way to beat the hold.

From HBO's "Hard Knocks."
Rookie Turk McBride: "What do you do when guys are holding you and pulling you down?"
Veteran Jared Allen: "Kick 'em."
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Old 08-20-2007   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuttoKarl View Post
Defensive Linemen usually take a couple of years to adjust. That is pretty much fact. We have yet to throw a blitz in there to free things up for the D-Line as well. It is still too early to call anyone a bust or lose sleep over the lack of sacks in these preseason games. How many times did Chicago or Arizona get a sack on Schaub or Sage? Are there fans up in arms about their defensive players?
Not true at all. I can remember at least 1 instance where CC & a CB came in on a blitz & basically stopped at the line once someone got in front of them.
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