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Old 08-19-2007   #141
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You make some excellent points about the defensive staff. I have to admit. I asked, " Richard Who?" when the coaching staff was put together last year. However, they are the coaching staff and we can only hope they know what they are doing.
Richard Smith wasn't Kubiak's first choice. I forgot who it was, someone on a team out west, IIRC. Maybe TC remembers. But whoever it was, wasn't allowed to talk to us by his team.
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Old 08-19-2007   #142
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Richard Smith wasn't Kubiak's first choice. I forgot who it was, someone on a team out west, IIRC. Maybe TC remembers. But whoever it was, wasn't allowed to talk to us by his team.
Frank Bush...and we signed him this offseason. I think this may be Frank Bush's defense next season. I don't anticipate Smith being around next year.
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Old 08-19-2007   #143
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Richard Smith wasn't Kubiak's first choice. I forgot who it was, someone on a team out west, IIRC. Maybe TC remembers. But whoever it was, wasn't allowed to talk to us by his team.
frank bush comes to mind that Kubiak wanted yet last season they wouldn't let him talk to us.
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Old 08-19-2007   #144
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you run stunts for the same reason you run counters and misdirection on offense. You have to mix it up and not become predictable....players are too good in this league to just do the same things over and over.
No argument from me on that. It seems like some of us expect Mario, et. al. to just run over the opposing O-linemen. Like you said, the players are too good for that.

And I have to admit, I get tired of seeing Mario "boxing" with the tackles and not even making said tackle give ground. If the tackle engages Mario (or whoever) and gets him involved in a game of pattycake for 2-3 seconds, then the tackle has won that battle because the play has most likely moved past him.

I don't know if that is lack of effort as some have said or lack of understanding that he's wasting time by "boxing" - but it needs to be fixed.
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Old 08-19-2007   #145
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How many sacks do you guys think Mario left on the table? I plan on looking at the recording later, but I don't remember a ton of sack opportunities on Leinart.

Thanks to the NFL Network, I've been able to watch a lot of preseason games, thus far. And I've noticed that the refs have swallowed their whistle on a ton of offensive holding. I went back and looked at the stats, and that seemed to bear out in the sack totals. This weeks games averaged about 4.3 sacks per game, slightly below average. When you take away a couple of games where the Pats and the Packers went blitz crazy, the numbers go down to around 3.5. I have a feeling that when I watch the replay on this game, I'll see a ton of no calls on both sides of the ball. Whether that will play out this way in the regular season is TBD.
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Old 08-19-2007   #146
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How many sacks do you guys think Mario left on the table? I plan on looking at the recording later, but I don't remember a ton of sack opportunities on Leinart.
to me it's not a matter of getting a sack...it's a matter of beating your man in some way on any given play. I haven't seen him win any individual battles....and he is supposed to be a "freak" that has elite speed and strength....I just don't see it when he plays.
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Old 08-19-2007   #147
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Mario just looks like he isn't strong enough to be a d-lineman in the NFL....I can count the number of times that I've actually seen the guy even get the slightest penetration off the line........to put it plain and simple...he looks weak.
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Old 08-19-2007   #148
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to me it's not a matter of getting a sack...it's a matter of beating your man in some way on any given play. I haven't seen him win any individual battles....and he is supposed to be a "freak" that has elite speed and strength....I just don't see it when he plays.
I agree with you here. I'm not especially worried about sack numbers per se as much as seeing him come off the edge and and force some plays...mess up the other teams timing.
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Old 08-19-2007   #149
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No argument from me on that. It seems like some of us expect Mario, et. al. to just run over the opposing O-linemen. Like you said, the players are too good for that.

And I have to admit, I get tired of seeing Mario "boxing" with the tackles and not even making said tackle give ground. If the tackle engages Mario (or whoever) and gets him involved in a game of pattycake for 2-3 seconds, then the tackle has won that battle because the play has most likely moved past him.

I don't know if that is lack of effort as some have said or lack of understanding that he's wasting time by "boxing" - but it needs to be fixed.
More like chicken-fighting rather than boxing.

I dunno . . what I don't see, is any sort of an effective spin-move. Who knows, maybe he's saving that for the regular season.
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Old 08-19-2007   #150
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I'm really surprised by some of the posts I'm seeing in this thread.

Mario negatives from people I wouldn't have expected it from. But as I have not seen him play in this preseason, I have to take their words, because they are people I trust.

However, I saw alot of the things that made Mario our #1 pick last season, and I find it hard to believe his effort has dropped so far.

I was not disappointed with Mario in the least bit all of last season, & I'm still optomistic, that he'll be one of the premier defensive players in the league for a long time to come.

My excuse for why we aren't seeing those numbers translate to the stat sheet??

As a whole, our defense is still pretty young. Our defensive line more so. Mario, Maddox, TJ, Amobi, Babin... our best defensive lineman, are all what 3 years or less in this league??

Had Mario gone to Tampa Bay with Simeon Rice, and Warren Sapp, we'd be crying that we didn't take him. Or if He went to play in Philadelphia, opposite Jevon Kearse, and swapping inside/outside duties with Darren Howard, we'd drool over a player that could do what Mario would do on that team.

OR if he played opposite Dwight Freeney, we wouldn't question Indy's dominance of the AFC South.

Our best defensive lineman is an undersized DE we've been trying to get to play LB for most of his professional career.

On this team, It's going to take a little time before Mario can dominate. That's just the way it is.
welcome back. why not try and bring Simeon Rice to town to help our DL and possibly show Mario some veteran tricks and techniques.

i want mario to be good and think he has all the physical tools to do so, I just don't know if he has the drive and love for football/competition that it takes. at the end of every play he is normally standing upright but away from the action. he doesnt disengage from blockers and is happy just doing the 2step with his blocker making no impact. he needs a veteran or a coach to get in his face and let this guy no that his level of effort is unacceptable.

maybe they are 'saving' him for the regular season and not running many stunts and he is just trying to stay injury-free. at some point, Mario is what he is. Let's hope he doesn't end up being what he currently is, because that would be a disaster of biblical proportions.
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Old 08-19-2007   #151
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No argument from me on that. It seems like some of us expect Mario, et. al. to just run over the opposing O-linemen. Like you said, the players are too good for that.

And I have to admit, I get tired of seeing Mario "boxing" with the tackles and not even making said tackle give ground. If the tackle engages Mario (or whoever) and gets him involved in a game of pattycake for 2-3 seconds, then the tackle has won that battle because the play has most likely moved past him.
I don't know if that is lack of effort as some have said or lack of understanding that he's wasting time by "boxing" - but it needs to be fixed.
quoted for truth. its getting REALLY old.
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Old 08-19-2007   #152
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How many sacks do you guys think Mario left on the table? I plan on looking at the recording later, but I don't remember a ton of sack opportunities on Leinart.

Thanks to the NFL Network, I've been able to watch a lot of preseason games, thus far. And I've noticed that the refs have swallowed their whistle on a ton of offensive holding. I went back and looked at the stats, and that seemed to bear out in the sack totals. This weeks games averaged about 4.3 sacks per game, slightly below average. When you take away a couple of games where the Pats and the Packers went blitz crazy, the numbers go down to around 3.5. I have a feeling that when I watch the replay on this game, I'll see a ton of no calls on both sides of the ball. Whether that will play out this way in the regular season is TBD.
gotta agree 100% with you on that one. mario's level of effort has been bad but he has been held by many of the OL and TE that he has 'battled'. most of the sacks that I have seen in the preseason on NFLN have been from delayed blitzes by DBs coming free. not many DL are getting around the corner and hitting the QB so far in most of the games I have seen (way too many...getting burned out on preseason)
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Old 08-19-2007   #153
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I fear that this situation is feeding itself. Big time.

Everyone but Bush and Franklin, with healthy dose of N.D.Kalu, need to leave Mario the hell alone. Twenty voices in his ear can't do anything but breed doubt and confusion. He doesn't necessarily need someone in his face--different people respond to different stimuli. Ask Parcells. Ask any competent school teacher.
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Old 08-19-2007   #154
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Has the regular season begun yet? Cause all this Negative Nancy talk has me wanting to buy the lot of you, a box of Midol. Start screaming and whining when it counts
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Old 08-19-2007   #155
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Frank Bush...and we signed him this offseason. I think this may be Frank Bush's defense next season. I don't anticipate Smith being around next year.
Even if the Frank Bush-Richard Smith tandem is what Kubiak wanted as his first choice last year, there is nothing with them that makes me think--yeah, these are the guys I want running my defense.

Jethro Franklin is the defensive line coach. (with an assist from Bush) He got canned from the Tampa Bay. Rod Marinelli was their defensive line coach, then he left for Detroit. Then Franklin came from USC, and then got canned by the Bucs after their D line had a crap pass rush--including the Bucs lowest sack totals since 1995. (He coached the line at GB between 2000-2004). He was signed for a two year contract with TB, but was canned after one year.

Sometimes fans don't know all the reasons why particular guys were picked to be coaches, but from what I've seen, I've never been comfortable with this staff having a consistant proven defensive philosophy.

Some years there are some really good coaches available to be an assistant. Last year wasn't the bestest year to pick.
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Old 08-19-2007   #156
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Has the regular season begun yet? Cause all this Negative Nancy talk has me wanting to buy the lot of you, a box of Midol. Start screaming and whining when it counts
no, but some these people sticking up for Mario will be the first to point a finger at everything VY is doing in the preseason....peoples main beef is that Mario showed us close to nothing last year, and although it is preseason it would be nice to actually get past the O-Line once when you were our # 1 draft pick....the guy is looking worst than avg. out there on the field.
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Old 08-19-2007   #157
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It's only preseason. Lay off the trigger fingers.

threetoedpeete- excellent posts.
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Old 08-19-2007   #158
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I call it like I see it. Mario sucks right now. He may come around some day but he should have a better showing than what he has had so far. For everyone saying to wait for the regular season I say bs. He should be showing way more effort right now. True competitors hate getting beat at anything and will do what ever it takes to get better. Just look how Jacoby carries himself. I watched him on the sidelines during the Cardinals game right after he went up for the jump ball in the endzone. He didnt come down with it but he was big time upset about it. Everything about him tells me he is a competitor. I just don't know about Mario. Maybe if he had someone competing with him for his starting position he would perform. I don't believe the team will bench him because of what they paid for him until they have a legit replacement. I agree with giving Mario time but lets see some kind of improvement here. He knows he has the job thats his problem!
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Old 08-19-2007   #159
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I saw Mario attempt a swim move and fall on his face at least twice, maybe 3 times. Shows a guy that got by in his career by being able to just shove guys over because of physical superiority. Now, that he is probably weaker than 90% of the guys he goes against, he has no clue what to do.
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Old 08-19-2007   #160
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I think I am being unfair to Mario when it's really the coaching staff's fault.

Mario is a good football player, but he's being asked to do something he's not suited for.
aye yi yi...not that excuse...errrr....'reason' again!

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The team has stunk the past five years and the product this year is visibly different yet we continue to ***** and moan.

Maybe y'all have some sort of complex in Houston due to Bud Adams or maybe the 1993 playoff game against the Bills still haunts everyone. It is very weird in my opinion. I see bitching, but I see no critique on the player in question.

We won. Our rookie returned a punt for a TD. The Oline played well. Schaub and Sage played with poise. Green looked pretty good. Turk started. Lastly, Mario showed nothing but attacking the offensive lineman's numbers in front of him, again.
Meaningless outcome. Individual performances in a glorified scrimmage are all these games are worth at the end of the day.

And with Mario, it was said best by Vinny:

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to me it's not a matter of getting a sack...it's a matter of beating your man in some way on any given play. I haven't seen him win any individual battles....and he is supposed to be a "freak" that has elite speed and strength....I just don't see it when he plays.
I'm not jumping off cliffs or yelling bust, but this take hits the nail on the head. I find it hard to believe that what we see in pre-season is not an indication of sorts. If Mario is failing to beat his man even once, I do not see some magical switch that gets flipped for regular season and he suddenly turns into The Beast.
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