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Old 08-18-2007   #101
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Default Re: Williams 0 0 0 0

atleast okoye looks good..
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Old 08-18-2007   #102
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Originally Posted by BattleRedToro View Post
Jacoby Jones is a WR/PR not a DE or a DT.
Patrick Willis is a LB not a DE or a DT.
Adam Carriker is a DT but he is the exception so far in preseason at DT and not the rule.
I see, so expectations are higher for all other positions (and other team's picks) than for our highly drafted dlinemen?? So now, all of a sudden, dline (only on our team) is the MOST difficult position in football to play?? I don't think so..... It appears that just because WE drafted them folks want to give them a free pass. Again, this is not beating up on MW and AO but, our FO for drafting them ahead of where they should have been.
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Old 08-18-2007   #103
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Jacoby is not a first rounder. He doesn't have all that pressure to deal with.
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Old 08-18-2007   #104
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I see, so expectations are higher for all other positions (and other team's picks) than for our highly drafted dlinemen?? So now, all of a sudden, dline (only on our team) is the MOST difficult position in football to play?? I don't think so..... It appears that just because WE drafted them folks want to give them a free pass. Again, this is not beating up on MW and AO but, our FO for drafting them ahead of where they should have been.
depends on what you are looking for

I am not defending anyone but...

easier to show up in stats with say, 80 yards receiving than 1 tackle.

granted our DL is paid (whole DL) is paid alot of money to make plays
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Old 08-18-2007   #105
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To those saying he has shown no flashes or has made no plays...are we forgetting that his fumble he forced was a MAJOR reason we won that game. Simply because we had a extra possesion, and if I remember correct we won because of that extra possesion.

The Giants game he had a series where all he did was dominate. Even the T holding him told him to slow down.

The Jets game he made a few plays also...

The Dolphins game he tipped a pass that could have lead to a Dolphin win and a Texan loss.

So I would disagree with the 'He's shown no flashes or has made no plays'
I remember in the Jets game he just tossed the guy who was blocking him into the RB which made the RB fall...

Maybe that's all he's done, but he has shown flashes of dominance here and there and he's made some big plays. I really disagree with he's shown no flashes. No one remember that Giants game he dominated pretty much that first half and slowed down (kinda disappeared) the second. That could be his foot, but the point is he disappeared the 2nd half.
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Old 08-18-2007   #106
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Default Re: Williams 0 0 0 0

i just wish mario played like a 1st pick
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Old 08-18-2007   #107
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i just wish mario played like a 1st pick
Don't we all.

Apparently, Dean's "cone of uncertainty" has engulfed Mario.
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Old 08-19-2007   #108
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I understand what you are saying but you are barking up the wrong tree. I'm not sitting here yelling "bust." I'm trying to explain what you get when you take a guy #1 overall. 1) I'm not sure on the hustling. Do I think he is jaking it?I'm not going to say that but there were questions about his motor since NC St. So I'd like to see some full games in yr 2 and see what he has. 2) I never said anything about Babin or TJ. I think Babin has been horrible for what Charlie gave up but will be happy is he has a breakout year. I'm concerned TJ had to have a coach threaten to cut him to get him to turn it around. 3) My thread had nothing to do with VY or Reggie. You just have to realize that your assessment might make alot of sense for the 17th guy taken in the 1st round but when you take a guy #1 overall, you are expecting to see plays, not someone that can spend a career holding the line. The reasoning behind his pick was "we are getting torched in the secondary and having a guy who can pressure the QB can change that." Right now, we aren't getting close to that. So I'd like to see more. That isn't a sin.


I dunno how many times I've got to post this sheet...one more apperently. Up untill that wensday, the day befor the Reggie Bush house stroy broke...no one offered a trade. No one. Mario was the best d-lineman on the board. Period. They were not going to take Bush.They put a phone call into the guy two days befor the story broke. And when they came back his demands were so outragous...the house story made Bush untouchable. They were not going to take Vincent. All you gotta do is watch the guy work a quarter and any sane person can see the guy can not pass the ball. Couldn't do it in highschool. Couldn't do it in college. And won't ever do it. Damn sure didn't do it last night. Their only two choices of that draft was to get a move down deal or pick Mario Williams. That was it. All of the revesionist crap then about Mario, and now about Okoye ...is just that crap. They weren't going to take a WR. Or a Rb or a FS. They passed on FS four times last April. After the forth time, I got it .

Well the two guys the last time I checked weren't dead yet. Instant gratifacation is a fools dream. I'm sorry they've missed your comfort level on what a first rounder is supposed to be. But at least give them the season. I saw them both hustleing and giving their all today. Paper says we've got a good D-line coach. Just got to let it play out. I know one thing for a fact neither one of them is going anywhere for a few seasons. That's your starting two on the right side untill '10. Wanna jump up and down and stomp your feet and hold your breath for three years, be my guest. The Draft is not a science. It is an art. All I know for a fact is that Okoye has an elite first step and Mario is a 1%er. They may well bust out. But it won't be because they don't play RB or QB. They now have WR2 in the fold. Won't see him there untill '09. But after four seasons, they have him now. I'm just curious which WR in '06 and '07 you would of picked over Jones ? Deacon Jones got the crap beat out of him the first three years befor he got up to speed. I don't think it will take our two that long. They're just too good of athletes. Just need a six pack of patience.
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Old 08-19-2007   #109
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... like I desperately wanted that girl in kindergarden to like me.
I hope this was when you yourself were in kindergarden
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Old 08-19-2007   #110
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i just wish mario played like a 1st pick
There are so many things ungood with this defense in 2007.

They are young.
They are questionably coached.
They are semi-patched worked together with maybe guys not playing in their best positions.
The veteran mentors are ND Kalu and Anthony Weaver and Jeff Zgonina.

Young guys, questionable coaching, no older dominate players as vets, and guys playing out of position = ew. (Hey, sounds like the 2002 offense).

Yeah, I'd like Mario to dominate like a first pick, but what I'd really like is to see something that makes me optimistic about the defense this year. The only thing you can really say right now is that this is only the second game of the preseason, and they are young and might have a bright future. (Maybe if they have a miserable enough time here, their bright future is with some other team).
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Old 08-19-2007   #111
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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Deacon Jones got the crap beat out of him the first three years befor he got up to speed. I don't think it will take our two that long. They're just too good of athletes. Just need a six pack of patience.
Also, in Deacon Jones first year the Rams only had DE Lamar Lundy at that point. The next year they drafted DT Merlin Olsen and then in his third year the acquired DT Rosey Grier was acquired from the NY Giants to complete the original Fearsome Foursome. It should also be noted that although they rotated positions Jones normaly played LDE.

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Old 08-19-2007   #112
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Originally Posted by Aaelen86 View Post
Not trying to defend Mario, but a player similar to his physical attributes, Julius Peppers (who I might add has been in the league a lot longer) put up Mario-type numbers last night.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?season...&game_id=29471

It was interesting to me to see one of the elite pass rushers in the league be a no-show. Though sadly for Mario, Peppers has shown what he can do in the regular season.

Maybe Mario is unmotivated in preseason, maybe he really is a bust, but I find it hard to label him a true bust until after year 3.
Peppers did not play against the Eagles.
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Old 08-19-2007   #113
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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
There are so many things ungood with this defense in 2007.

They are young.
They are questionably coached.
They are semi-patched worked together with maybe guys not playing in their best positions.
The veteran mentors are ND Kalu and Anthony Weaver and Jeff Zgonina.

Young guys, questionable coaching, no older dominate players as vets, and guys playing out of position = ew. (Hey, sounds like the 2002 offense).

Yeah, I'd like Mario to dominate like a first pick, but what I'd really like is to see something that makes me optimistic about the defense this year. The only thing you can really say right now is that this is only the second game of the preseason, and they are young and might have a bright future. (Maybe if they have a miserable enough time here, their bright future is with some other team).
Yes you got it ! The questionable coaching part is whats getting me . In the AZ game i saw shift right and then shift left defensive line stunts . Those are used as run defense , like in power counter offense line shifts . This against a team that has a pocket passer with sub 4.0 receivers ! All that does is give a quarterback a clear view of the field . Add to that scissor stunts that had MW swinging around inside after a tackle sealed off creating a hole in the middle . Mario looked like he was going into pass coverage before he managed to get to the hole , and of course the pass had been thrown by then . The only scissor stunt done correctly was done on the other side by thomas johnson for a sack .
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Old 08-19-2007   #114
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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
There are so many things ungood with this defense in 2007.

They are young.
They are questionably coached.
They are semi-patched worked together with maybe guys not playing in their best positions.
The veteran mentors are ND Kalu and Anthony Weaver and Jeff Zgonina.

Young guys, questionable coaching, no older dominate players as vets, and guys playing out of position = ew. (Hey, sounds like the 2002 offense).

Yeah, I'd like Mario to dominate like a first pick, but what I'd really like is to see something that makes me optimistic about the defense this year. The only thing you can really say right now is that this is only the second game of the preseason, and they are young and might have a bright future. (Maybe if they have a miserable enough time here, their bright future is with some other team).
Sure would like to hear where you're going with that one.
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Old 08-19-2007   #115
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I expected the entire defense to build on the famous "last ten games of 2006" when they had a decent run going. I've been disappointed so far, but I'm glad it's still preseason so I can hold out some hope that they are still working out the kinks.
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Old 08-19-2007   #116
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Waiting 3-4 years for D-Linemen to get good is ridiculous. One year, I can see it, but the position isn't hard enough to take 3-4 years to learn.
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Old 08-19-2007   #117
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Mario did not do much today, but let's make sure we focus on him given that our team sucks more than ever in the last six years.
The most reasonable post I have read so far. I am happy with the team overall. Maybe people should stop focusing on just one player and enjoy the game instead of fretting.


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Old 08-19-2007   #118
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Waiting 3-4 years for D-Linemen to get good is ridiculous. One year, I can see it, but the position isn't hard enough to take 3-4 years to learn.
with Mario and Okoye you see two opposite sides of the why it may take longer than expected on a DLmen.

Williams was used to just dominating players because he was simply bigger, stronger, and more athletic. He really did not have polished techinque, well maybe even no real technique. He can't just do that as a pro and now he has to learn. Also, most pass rushing types have quickness off the ball which is the one physical asset Mario does not have. Honestly, I think in the 4-3 he should play the LE or SDE and his best position maybe 3-4 DE. I would listen to an argue that he maybe better in you let him bulk up and play DT. For his skills RDE or the pure pass rushing position maybe his worse.

Okoye has the quick first step and technique, but literally needs to get physically stronger. The Texans probably need to pair him with a bigger run stuffing type at some point. I think it would be a mistake to play Okoye more 35 maybe 40 plays a game. don't think his body is mature enough to stand-up to the pounding. Simply Okoye needs a couple of years of weight training and general maturing of his body.

In the meantime, what you want to see from these guys is not just gettiing manhandled and flashing the pure skills that they were drafted for.
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Old 08-19-2007   #119
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How about that stop on 4th and 1?
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Old 08-19-2007   #120
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Also, most pass rushing types have quickness off the ball which is the one physical asset Mario does not have.

Simply Okoye needs a couple of years of weight training and general maturing of his body.
The fly in the Mario ointment is that a big part of his upside were the explosiveness and quickness measurables at the combine. I think the quick first step is more of a mental aspect Marion hasn't displayed. If that even makes sense.

I agree that Okoye will need time for his body to mature into that of a man, not just an exceptionally strong teenager.
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