Interesting SI Article on VY

[disaacks3]

Originally Posted by Vinny

John Elway didn't win 12 playoff games and 2 super bowls by himself either...but come on, without him they don't win near that much.....heck the Broncos have only won one playoff game since Elway retired....and were not a good team before he got there. Despite what some of the guys here think, one very elite player pulling the trigger at QB can make a team a dynamic force in the NFL. The Titans were 9-24 the two years and the three games before he started. They were 8-5 and one game from the playoffs since they inserted him as the starter....and pacman Jones was with the team when they were 4-12 the year before.

Please oh please let's not compare VY to Elway....at least not yet. John Elway was a far more polished passer out of college and much more geared to a 'conventional' NFL offense. I DO think an ELITE player can have that much impact. I'm (very) far from convinced that Vince falls into that category.

I also have an issue with giving the *ROY to a guy who wasn't even the best rookie at HIS position. I'm not sure anybody could make that argument against DeMeco.

[Vinny]

I think he had every bit of impact that Elway had...I'll make the comparison I see fit...thanka

The league voted him into the pro bowl and the league voted him as the rookie of the year...so I guess the only people that have the proper perspective on VY are the homers in Houston who are afraid to say he is worth a darn because our franchise passed on him?

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Despite what some of the guys here think, one very elite player pulling the trigger at QB can make a team a dynamic force in the NFL.

Absolutely agree. My point was simply it took great performances from two players to pull off the Giants win so both should get credit. Without either one it goes down as a L.

Originally Posted by Vinny

The league voted him into the pro bowl

The league didn't vote him into the pro-bowl (or if you prefer they voted him in for several folks outside of the cut)--he became a pro-bowler due to a slew (5 I believe) of QB's deciding not to play. Not a knock on him, just the history. Demeco was closer to be voted in but he doesn't get the same credit.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Absolutely agree. My point was simply it took great performances from two players to pull off the Giants win so both should get credit. Without either one it goes down as a L.

I think we agree....both got a ton of credit as they both deserved it....the Titans were awful in any other rational measurement if you extract Pacman and Young both from the squads.

[hollywood_texan]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

You have an agenda, and it is more and more obvious with each post you type. The 2006 draft is water under the bridge. The sooner you accept that reality, the sooner you can stop your myopic takes on this subject.

You mistake me having an agenda for taking a deep analysis of a situation. That happens very often on this board with my posts. My postings are more about a genuine analysis of a situation and deciding the best decision in my opinion on their merits.

The VY decision was wrapped up in so many things and even more missed opportunities. It seems so many people have their eyes closed to it for whatever reasons (Aggies that don't like Longhorns, Kubiak/WCO, etc.).

The key is winning the Super Bowl, and if that meant VY and Kubiak chaning his offensive scheme, so be it. I am tired of this WCO box. You take the best opportunity and go with it and make adjustments.

Make no mistake, the Texans have to stand on their own. The reason we are even having this discussion is because they can't win football games. So don't blame me for the discussion, blame McNair and the Texans organization.

These guys don't deserve a free pass for all the terrible personnel decisions.

But, please don't misinterpret my analysis as an agenda for some UT player.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by hollywood_texan

You mistake me having an agenda for taking a deep analysis of a situation. That happens very often on this board with my posts. My postings are more about a genuine analysis of a situation and deciding the best decision in my opinion on their merits.

The VY decision was wrapped up in so many things and even more missed opportunities. It seems so many people have their eyes closed to it for whatever reasons (Aggies that don't like Longhorns, Kubiak/WCO, etc.).

The key is winning the Super Bowl, and if that meant VY and Kubiak chaning his offensive scheme, so be it. I am tired of this WCO box. You take the best opportunity and go with it and make adjustments.

Make no mistake, the Texans have to stand on their own. The reason we are even having this discussion is because they can't win football games. So don't blame me for the discussion, blame McNair and the Texans organization.

These guys don't deserve a free pass for all the terrible personnel decisions.

But, please don't misinterpret my analysis as an agenda for some UT player.

That's cool, man. We are always entitled to our own opinions, and I respect that accordingly. Agreeing to disagree is nothing but a 'thang'.

I've said it before, I like the playmaking ability that VY seems to possess, and think the dynamic potential of a player like him is fun to watch as an NFL fan.

But in spite of all that, I'm still glad he's not a member of the Houston Texans.

[TEXANRED]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Pure stupidity. Maybe one of the dumber things I have ever read. Sorry, in the words of Ricky Bobby, "that is just dumb."

Then apparently you don't read the things you write.

[Hookem Horns]

LOL, this thread is still going?

[TEXANRED]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

I'm sure that would go over well in Possum Hollar. PROFESSIONAL football players have allegiances to the teams that they play for, NOT to the cities they were born in. If he's so big on Houston and his 'roots', then why didn't he play for the Cougars?

Maybe b/c he couldn't pass UH's entry exam?

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

The Giants game is the classic example for what dissack is saying. Yes VY made some really good plays, but the comeback was at least equally set up by two Pacman Jones INT's and a long run back. Neither one should be given singular credit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ12p3uLk3Y

44 seconds into it... I can't spell his name.. I am not sure why he didn't wrap up...

I give vince this.. he has a way of getting key plays (3rd downs) to keep drives alive.. that what does make vince dangerous.

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by Wolf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ12p3uLk3Y

44 seconds into it... I can't spell his name.. I am not sure why he didn't wrap up...

I give vince this.. he has a way of getting key plays (3rd downs) to keep drives alive.. that what does make vince dangerous.

Ironically, the guy who didn't "wrap up" took an unnescessary roughness call the week before for slamming Carr... No excuse for not playing to the whistle though...

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Wolf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ12p3uLk3Y

44 seconds into it... I can't spell his name.. I am not sure why he didn't wrap up...

I give vince this.. he has a way of getting key plays (3rd downs) to keep drives alive.. that what does make vince dangerous.

Rookie Kiawanuka (or something similar). He let up on the play because the week before a game was changed by a lame QB roughing call and he didn't want to change the game by drawing the same penalty. Dumb not to wait for a whistle though.

[BattleRedToro]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Sorry that I got the record wrong. My bad. I was trying to reference the teams start of 0-5. What does that have to do with the analysis of them still almost making the playoffs?I didn't think so. Keep trying.

That is fine if you want to reference the team's start of 0-5 as long as you make sure everyone knows that 2 of those losses were when Vince Young was a starter. Otherwise it leads people to believe that he had a higher winning percentage then he did as a starter and they would then surmise incorrectly that had Vince started all 16 games that they would have won 11 games. On the contrary, the only additional game that they might have won that Vince didn't start was the loss to Miami in Week 3. If the Titans would have won that game I believe they would have been in the playoffs, but I'm not sure if I understand the tiebreaker system correctly, so I could be wrong.

[BattleRedToro]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Rookie Kiawanuka (or something similar). He let up on the play because the week before a game was changed by a lame QB roughing call and he didn't want to change the game by drawing the same penalty. Dumb not to wait for a whistle though.

And people say that referees don't change the game.

[Blazing Arrow]

We might have pulled out the game in NY as well. Collins did not have a 1st down in the 1st half

[BattleRedToro]

Originally Posted by Blazing Arrow

We might have pulled out the game in NY as well. Collins did not have a 1st down in the 1st half

No, I think VY would've needed KY after that game because he wasn't ready to start yet. Remember that game was in Week 1.

[michaelm]

Originally Posted by Vinny

eh...cloak, VY had some pretty impressive stats his last year at UT....you may want to look them up. anyway...I need to go make some tea or something.

I'm a Longhorn fan, and don't really know much about his stats except for 1-0 in National Championship games... (OK, maybe a bit more)
As a fan, I DO know there were too many times that I cringed when he passed the ball, thinking "that pass gets picked off in the NFL".
Too many soft, floating passes for my comfort level. It happened more than a few times against USC, too.
On the other hand, he may be good enough that he knew instinctively that he could get away with a less than pin point pass... I'm not making a joke there, maybe he just knew...

[Blazing Arrow]

Originally Posted by BattleRedToro

No, I think VY would've needed KY after that game because he wasn't ready to start yet. Remember that game was in Week 1.

He went 3-4 and the INT was a end of half 3-flies up pass. Getting even 3 1st in the first half could have saved our D. Even if it were through his legs it would have been huge.