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Old 08-20-2007   #61
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
The reason I root for VY is because I went to 2 amazing Rose Bowl games. While VY played for UT, I wasn't a big supporter and was very pessimistic about his NFL career. However, after going to the National Championship game, I realized VY had done more for me as a football fan than whatever anyone else had ever done. It's an amazing experience to go to one of the greatest games of all time.

With all that said, the Texans really haven't done squat. If it wasn't for tailgating and an awesome stadium with great seats, the Texans organizaiton would be worthless at this point in my perspective.

Bottom line is, the Texans need to win and establish their own history. Which they haven't done!

Also, VY openly campaigned to play for the Texans and they didn't select him.

Why should I blindly follow an organization that still hasn't put up winner and continues to make questionable first round draft choices (just think if we didn't Andre Johnson?)?

You keep bringing this point about the Titans and Bud Adams. I was a big Oiler fan too, but I don't have the same feelings as you do about Bud. I definitely understand your perspective though, but don't really have the same strong feelings.

QBs play a long time, and as much as everyone makes of VY's running ability, he is probably an even better football player. The guy has the will to win and the football play in him to adapt and continue his career in my opinion.

Time will tell. As time moves on for me though, my interest in VY becomes less and less concerning my Rose Bowl experiences. In other words, he is just becoming another player in the NFL.

If the Texans could make a decent playoff run, well that would take care of the VY thing all together.

Really, if you think about it, this whole VY thing is really an issue about the questionable personnel decisions the Texans have made. VY is just a flash point to that. If the Texans had went 8-8 or better in 2005, they wouldn't have been in the position to draft VY, and no one would have cared about this whole situation in the first place.
These two points are part of my whole argument and another reason why I try to look at the thing with an open mind. SOME people are anti-VY due this backlash of our draft and being tired of hearing about him because of people wanting him. I mean the threads filled the board for months aand still do to this day. My question is always the same, how did VY cause those problems?He didn't. He openly campaigned to be here. People need to separate VY the player and rival and the whoel draft thing, etc. I'm not going to root against a guy just because it will make us look better or so I can throw it in people's faces everytime something goes wrong.
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Old 08-20-2007   #62
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
Also, VY openly campaigned to play for the Texans and they didn't select him.
Oh, come on, man. You make it sound like he was doing some sort of favor or making some sort of sacrifice by campaigning to be the first person selected in the draft.

At that point in time, EVERYONE in the draft wanted to play for the Texans.
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Old 08-20-2007   #63
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Oh, come on, man. You make it sound like he was doing some sort of favor or making some sort of sacrifice by campaigning to be the first person selected in the draft.

At that point in time, EVERYONE in the draft wanted to play for the Texans.
Its a valid point though. SOME people on here hate because of this whole VY or Bush or Mario thing. They want to see the others fail to justify our cause. I don't look at it that way. VY didn't cause that problem. It wasn't like he did our organization wrong. I mean there are guys who have openly asked not to go to teams...Eli, Elway....Bush wasn't too excited.
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Old 08-20-2007   #64
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Thus my use of the term.... ."Spread offense". Thats what Alcorn State ran and thats what Texas ran (with VY - we'll see if they change that up with McCoy)

!Frankly, people that cant see similiarities between Vick and VY AND put VY on a pedestal without having accomplished jack are either tunnel vision homers or are not being honest
TB, we pretty much are eye to eye on most stuff on here and you know I am not going to try and rip into you or anything. But we will agree to disagree on this. Vick didn't win squat at VT. They had good years. VY won a national title and back to back Rose Bowls. The difference I see is the work they put in. After VYs sophmore year at UT, he was Vick like and one dimensional and then he worked on his passing. His junior year he had the highest completion percentage out there. I don't care what offense he worked in. When drafted people said he would take 3 years to make an impact. He worked with Rhome in the off-season and actually had a pretty successful rookie year. Meanwhile Vick has never wanted to adapt. He runs and has tried to improve throwing sporadically. I think the difference is huge. I just think it is funny that VY or anyone else for that matter has to be the "next" and then add running black QB but no one ever says he could be like Steve Young or anyone like that. I'm not saying it is black and white. It is like every Walters is the next Ed McCafferty. I find it funny. I think VY and Vick are night and day.

Overall though I like our QB now. I'm not complaining about the draft, just the conclusion on a player.
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Old 08-20-2007   #65
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
McNair came from Alcorn st where they didn't have anything close to a NFL offense or competition....most small school guys take a bit longer to develop than players from larger programs. Frankly, imo, people who don't see the difference in Mike Vick and VY are either tunnel vision homers or are not being honest.
That is very true. Vick is a much better passer than VY.
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Old 08-20-2007   #66
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Oh, come on, man. You make it sound like he was doing some sort of favor or making some sort of sacrifice by campaigning to be the first person selected in the draft.

At that point in time, EVERYONE in the draft wanted to play for the Texans.
True, every player wants to be picked #1.

But, I believe VY would have gladly gone #3 with the Texans than #1 with the Titans in that draft at that point in his life.

I watched some stuff on VY and how he lives since being in the NFL. This guy is a TEXAN when you look at his house and how he decorated it. I love the Texan mascot and logo, but this is where you get hosed by having that as your marketing concept. You pass on a true Texan (what a missed marketing opportunity) and he ends up kicking your butt every year. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

Can you imagine the commericals with Vince saying "I'm a Texan"?

Oh my...

Not only did the Texans miss on opporunity, but also missed a marketing dream and way to make serious in roads into the Dallas fan base.

But, we have already gone round and round with that.

Understand this, the Texans can solve this problem very easily, WIN FOOTBALL GAMES AND GO TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!!

Keep in mind, just because I am not a blind loyalist doesn't mean I not a huge TEXAN FAN!
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Old 08-20-2007   #67
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Thus my use of the term.... ."Spread offense". Thats what Alcorn State ran and thats what Texas ran (with VY - we'll see if they change that up with McCoy)

Frankly, people that cant see similiarities between Vick and VY AND put VY on a pedestal without having accomplished jack are either tunnel vision homers or are not being honest!
Texas had a much higher quality of competition than alcorn state did. Steve McNair didn't run much more than a high school offense at Alcorn St vs very low grade competition.

On the second point...to be frank, I value credibility over popularity so I choose to give credible opinion over biased homer takes.
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Old 08-20-2007   #68
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
TB, we pretty much are eye to eye on most stuff on here and you know I am not going to try and rip into you or anything. But we will agree to disagree on this. Vick didn't win squat at VT. They had good years. VY won a national title and back to back Rose Bowls. The difference I see is the work they put in. After VYs sophmore year at UT, he was Vick like and one dimensional and then he worked on his passing. His junior year he had the highest completion percentage out there. I don't care what offense he worked in. When drafted people said he would take 3 years to make an impact. He worked with Rhome in the off-season and actually had a pretty successful rookie year. Meanwhile Vick has never wanted to adapt. He runs and has tried to improve throwing sporadically. I think the difference is huge. I just think it is funny that VY or anyone else for that matter has to be the "next" and then add running black QB but no one ever says he could be like Steve Young or anyone like that. I'm not saying it is black and white. It is like every Walters is the next Ed McCafferty. I find it funny. I think VY and Vick are night and day.
I hear what you are saying.

I know that he led the nation in completion percentage... However, we just spent the last 5 years with a QB who last year had a high completion percentage too. We know that didnt mean crap...

Also, I think VY fans do a great dis-service to the receiving corps Texas had when VY was there. How many jump balls did Limus Sweed come down with?? The tight end David Thomas was a pretty good one. Billy Pittman and Jordan Shipley contributed as well - not to mention some pretty good backs coming out of the backfield (Selvin Young, Taylor and Charles)....

I compare Young to Vick, not because of color, but because neither are good pocket passers. Once he learns to throw than maybe some comparisons to Steve Young, Elway, Staubach, Tarkenton, McNabb, McNair or Cunningham and other scrambling quarterbacks would be justified. Until then, his 'game' reminds me more of Vick than a Steve Young. We'll see if that changes, but as for now, I call it like I see it and can not predict the future. Some people never thought McNair would develop into a pocket passer, but it happened and he did quite well... SO there is hope for the VY fans.

Meanwhile, I will hope that he and the Titans lose as many divisional games as possible...
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Old 08-20-2007   #69
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
TB, we pretty much are eye to eye on most stuff on here and you know I am not going to try and rip into you or anything. But we will agree to disagree on this. Vick didn't win squat at VT. They had good years. VY won a national title and back to back Rose Bowls. The difference I see is the work they put in. After VYs sophmore year at UT, he was Vick like and one dimensional and then he worked on his passing. His junior year he had the highest completion percentage out there. I don't care what offense he worked in. When drafted people said he would take 3 years to make an impact. He worked with Rhome in the off-season and actually had a pretty successful rookie year. Meanwhile Vick has never wanted to adapt. He runs and has tried to improve throwing sporadically. I think the difference is huge. I just think it is funny that VY or anyone else for that matter has to be the "next" and then add running black QB but no one ever says he could be like Steve Young or anyone like that. I'm not saying it is black and white. It is like every Walters is the next Ed McCafferty. I find it funny. I think VY and Vick are night and day.

Overall though I like our QB now. I'm not complaining about the draft, just the conclusion on a player.
Don't agree here. Mack was trying to get him to run a pro-style O like Simms & Applewhite had run before him in his sophmore year & he struggled. He then went to Mack in the offseason & asked him to "let vince be vince." i.e. let me run plays that play to my strengths, hence the QB read came about & the rest is history.

Chow & Fisher brought this play with him when he was drafted but only as a "wrinkle" for the offense NOT to have your whole offense run off of this like it was @ UT. At some point he's going to have to learn how to beat teams through the air. I'm not going to bet against him, but it's obvious that he needs to work on being a better passer & i think the NE game where he looks like he clearly was not trying to run was the first step for him.
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Old 08-20-2007   #70
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Texas had a much higher quality of competition than alcorn state did. Steve McNair didn't run much more than a high school offense at Alcorn St vs very low grade competition.

On the second point...to be frank, I value credibility over popularity so I choose to give credible opinion over biased homer takes.
Credibility isn't self appointed. Besides, I am in the minority (disproving your popularity comment) when it comes to wearing VY's jock strap as an eye patch...

My evaluation of him is spot on - until 'he' proves me different...
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Old 08-20-2007   #71
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Credibility isn't self appointed. Besides, I am in the minority (disproving your popularity comment) when it comes to wearing VY's jock strap as an eye patch...

My evaluation of him is spot on - until 'he' proves me different...
you don't have to find me credible....most of the homers don't and never will because I just don't post slanted takes. It's just par for the course. I'll put up my history of observation up against anyone here.
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Old 08-20-2007   #72
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Don't agree here. Mack was trying to get him to run a pro-style O like Simms & Applewhite had run before him in his sophmore year & he struggled. He then went to Mack in the offseason & asked him to "let vince be vince." i.e. let me run plays that play to my strengths, hence the QB read came about & the rest is history.

Chow & Fisher brought this play with him when he was drafted but only as a "wrinkle" for the offense NOT to have your whole offense run off of this like it was @ UT. At some point he's going to have to learn how to beat teams through the air. I'm not going to bet against him, but it's obvious that he needs to work on being a better passer & i think the NE game where he looks like he clearly was not trying to run was the first step for him.
That was probably the best and most fair assessment yet....
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Old 08-20-2007   #73
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Can you imagine the commericals with Vince saying "I'm a Texan"?
I'm sure that would go over well in Possum Hollar. PROFESSIONAL football players have allegiances to the teams that they play for, NOT to the cities they were born in. If he's so big on Houston and his 'roots', then why didn't he play for the Cougars?

As far as ancient history (aka 2006 draft): People seem to be forgetting that VY, in spite of his dynamics and potential, is just not a WCO QB. He never would have fit with the Texans under Kubiak's offensive schemes.

Young is in the best place for him right now. He's got an OC that wants to tailor an offense to his strengths.
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Old 08-20-2007   #74
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
I hear what you are saying.

I know that he led the nation in completion percentage... However, we just spent the last 5 years with a QB who last year had a high completion percentage too. We know that didnt mean crap...

Also, I think VY fans do a great dis-service to the receiving corps Texas had when VY was there. How many jump balls did Limus Sweed come down with?? The tight end David Thomas was a pretty good one. Billy Pittman and Jordan Shipley contributed as well - not to mention some pretty good backs coming out of the backfield (Selvin Young, Taylor and Charles)....

I compare Young to Vick, not because of color, but because neither are good pocket passers. Once he learns to throw than maybe some comparisons to Steve Young, Elway, Staubach, Tarkenton, McNabb, McNair or Cunningham and other scrambling quarterbacks would be justified. Until then, his 'game' reminds me more of Vick than a Steve Young. We'll see if that changes, but as for now, I call it like I see it and can not predict the future. Some people never thought McNair would develop into a pocket passer, but it happened and he did quite well... SO there is hope for the VY fans.

Meanwhile, I will hope that he and the Titans lose as many divisional games as possible...
I hear you and my one take wasn't meant to say that anyone was comparing race. I just think it slips into people's minds when they think "running QB" or "tall white receiver." All in all people will make the jump. I think many just made the jump that VY was Vick. I don't see it. As you said, it is somethign we will see. I just haven't seen anything that says he won't overcome and become a above average passer too. I just don't put Vick and VY as in the same category. Its not close for me.
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Old 08-20-2007   #75
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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you don't have to find me credible....most of the homers don't and never will because I just don't post slanted takes. It's just par for the course.
Define homer??? Would that be me pulling for Reggie McNeil in Cincinnatti?? Or suggesting that the Texans sign Furgeson??? Or sniffing VY's jock because he's the home grown kid... If that were the case, I would be pimping Joseph Addai... Lemme run out and get my Dolts jersey!!!

If by being a homer you mean that I am a Texans fan and ONLY a Texans fan and thats wrong... Well, I don't wanna be right!!
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Old 08-20-2007   #76
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Don't agree here. Mack was trying to get him to run a pro-style O like Simms & Applewhite had run before him in his sophmore year & he struggled. He then went to Mack in the offseason & asked him to "let vince be vince." i.e. let me run plays that play to my strengths, hence the QB read came about & the rest is history.

Chow & Fisher brought this play with him when he was drafted but only as a "wrinkle" for the offense NOT to have your whole offense run off of this like it was @ UT. At some point he's going to have to learn how to beat teams through the air. I'm not going to bet against him, but it's obvious that he needs to work on being a better passer & i think the NE game where he looks like he clearly was not trying to run was the first step for him.
Well put but I will still disagree. He might have asked Mack to let him be himself but he also passed against teams that took away the run. Many tried to and he to work from the pocket.

As far as the pros. I was surprised at his development last year and thought he threw well against us and as I pointed out above, against the Giants and a few others. For a rookie I looked at it as a pretty stong platform.
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Old 08-20-2007   #77
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I hear you and my one take wasn't meant to say that anyone was comparing race. I just think it slips into people's minds when they think "running QB" or "tall white receiver." All in all people will make the jump. I think many just made the jump that VY was Vick. I don't see it. As you said, it is somethign we will see. I just haven't seen anything that says he won't overcome and become a above average passer too. I just don't put Vick and VY as in the same category. Its not close for me.
I will say this about the VY vs. Vick comparison and that is, IF anyone has the determination and grit to learn the passing game for the betterment of the team and themselves it would be VY. In Vicks case, I never saw that 'potential'.
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Old 08-20-2007   #78
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Define homer??? Would that be me pulling for Reggie McNeil in Cincinnatti?? Or suggesting that the Texans sign Furgeson??? Or sniffing VY's jock because he's the home grown kid... If that were the case, I would be pimping Joseph Addai... Lemme run out and get my Dolts jersey!!!

If by being a homer you mean that I am a Texans fan and ONLY a Texans fan and thats wrong... Well, I don't wanna be right!!
a homer is a guy who is not honest about his opinion and always slants it for the home team (its the same as partisan politics).....it's not like its a crime....but I just don't roll that way.
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Old 08-20-2007   #79
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a homer is a guy who is not honest about his opinion and always slants it for the home team.....it's not like its a crime....but I just don't roll that way.
Than I am certainly NOT a homer. I am completely honest with my opinions and if we blow something, I will own it.... As far as talk about players from other teams, I will give them some props when deserved..
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Than I am certainly NOT a homer. I am completely honest with my opinions and if we blow something, I will own it.... As far as talk about players from other teams, I will give them some props when deserved..
I'm sure you view your views as honest...I just can't see honesty in all your takes...especially when you call people who don't agree with you jock sniffers.
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