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Old 08-19-2007   #41
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
The guy made so many damn plays and won 8 games in a span of 9...VY looks like a damn good NFL QB even after just 3/4 of a season. He also has an innate ability to inspire his teammates and make the players around him better and just win.
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...

VY didn't win those 8 games, the Titans did. I'll give him the Texans game (here) as HIS. If you're trying to sell people on games he looked REALLY bad in as HIS victories, you better go watch the tape of those games again.

He didn't look like a "Damn Good" anything last year, except a good $$$-maker. 10 highlight-reeel plays vs. many more SORRY ones doesn't make for a great QB, especially when his best plays were usually with his feet.

He's a fantastic athlete & will sell lots of jerseys, but unless he lears how to be an effective pocket-passer, his career (as a starter) is gonna be awfully short.

I didn't think he deserved the OROY then & I still don't think he deserved it NOW.
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Old 08-19-2007   #42
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
How can any Texan fan want Vince Young to succeed? If it is because of what he did for UT, I have a news flash, he no longer plays for the Horns. Root for Colt McCoy now, not VY. VY succeeding means Bud Adams succeeding and the Texans failing. How can you root for that?

Hey, I was one of the most vocal about wanting the Texans to draft the guy, but I would rather be proven wrong by having the Titans losing and the Texans winning instead of just having the right to say "I told you so". I was right about Carr and that is enough "I told you so" for me.
well I want him to succeed (not against the Texans) because for the good of the NFL... I honestly enjoyed the chess match of the mid '80's of giants with LT and the Cowboys

I hope to see the same thing with Williams/ryans versus Young and White..

I hated the Steelers but boy it got me going with Campbell versus the Steel Curtain.
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Old 08-19-2007   #43
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...

VY didn't win those 8 games, the Titans did. I'll give him the Texans game (here) as HIS. If you're trying to sell people on games he looked REALLY bad in as HIS victories, you better go watch the tape of those games again.He didn't look like a "Damn Good" anything last year, except a good $$$-maker. 10 highlight-reeel plays vs. many more SORRY ones doesn't make for a great QB, especially when his best plays were usually with his feet.

He's a fantastic athlete & will sell lots of jerseys, but unless he lears how to be an effective pocket-passer, his career (as a starter) is gonna be awfully short.

I didn't think he deserved the OROY then & I still don't think he deserved it NOW.

I could not agree more. One of my favorite of VY's victories is in week week 15 against Jacksonville where he threw for a whopping 85 yards ! Their damn defense returned three thats right three turnovers for Td's. How you can spin that to be thanks to vince I will never know. By the way you cant put me in the hater club. I wne tot the Rose Bowl to root the Madison grad on and have an autographed picture of his scoring run on my office wall. However it would not bother me at all if he makes the pro bowl every year as long as its on a losing team in TN. I like Vince but I hate the Titans more!
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Old 08-19-2007   #44
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...

VY didn't win those 8 games, the Titans did. I'll give him the Texans game (here) as HIS. If you're trying to sell people on games he looked REALLY bad in as HIS victories, you better go watch the tape of those games again.

He didn't look like a "Damn Good" anything last year, except a good $$$-maker. 10 highlight-reeel plays vs. many more SORRY ones doesn't make for a great QB, especially when his best plays were usually with his feet.

He's a fantastic athlete & will sell lots of jerseys, but unless he lears how to be an effective pocket-passer, his career (as a starter) is gonna be awfully short.

I didn't think he deserved the OROY then & I still don't think he deserved it NOW.

I don't even know where to start on this thread....except to preface it that I didn't go to UT and I didn't want to draft VY.

Your analysis is so off it isn't even funny. I guess to people like you, I have to ask point blank why a team who won "with defense and other ways" happened to go 0-5 under one QB and then almost make the playoffs under another guy?

Are you talking about the games against Indy, where he lost but almost brought them to victory single handedly?Or the the game against us?I mean how much football do you watch?I'll tell you I've watched since the 1970s and have seen QBs take teams that had no business winning and turn them into playoff teams. Stats don't do everything. Once a guy shows a team he can win it for them, the defense plays better, the whole team gets the same feeling. Is it coincidence that Henry averaged over a yard more a carry starting with the games VY played?The only game I hear people point to is the J'Ville game.

You dismissing a guy guys believe in vs. a guy with perfect stats reeks of someone who hasn't seen many teams get by with leaders. There is a reason why one Patriot team with Bledsoe looked like a rudderless good team with potential to a SB team with one switch of QB. VY will have his ups and downs but to dismiss him and his contribution because of some rival thing or an anti-VY thing is ignorant. I'm sorry but I look at things from a football standpoint and Ws and Ls and you are blinding yourself if you think 0-5 to what the Titans did was pure coincidence. He is a rival but I'm smart enough to enjoy and look at football talent. VY did nothing to anyone here and wanted to play here. He plays hard and wins on every level. I just get tired of hating to hate. I just think that writers who have never played will never understand the importance of the idea of "every game is winnable with this guy" vs. "stats guy."

Again, I couldn't care less what VY does but I'm a true football fan and to ignore someones impact is senseless.
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Old 08-19-2007   #45
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

Ric might have went over the top with Vince hating ,but reading through the hating and seeing the object views, he had a point

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums//sh...ad.php?t=40279
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Old 08-19-2007   #46
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

VY had a some magical games last year but it will be hard to duplicate.
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Old 08-19-2007   #47
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Your analysis is so off it isn't even funny. I guess to people like you, I have to ask point blank why a team who won "with defense and other ways" happened to go 0-5 under one QB and then almost make the playoffs under another guy?

Are you talking about the games against Indy, where he lost but almost brought them to victory single handedly?Or the the game against us?
Um, let's see...

1. Their Defense played better? The last time I looked VY didn't play on "D"
2. Close doesn't count.
3. I already gave hime the "W" against us (see previous postl).

My "analysis" isn't based on the ESPN hype machine, it's based on rational analysis of the game of football, especially as it's played at the Professional level. Are you going to try and sell us all on how great Trent Dilfer is next? He must've INSPIRED the Baltimore Ravens to their Superbowl run in 2000-2001... right? (I hope this sounds as absurd to you as VY winning a game that he looked lousy in, but his Defense played fantastic in does to me.)

BTW - I didn't once use the word STATS, nor did I compare him to anyone else. VY has potential, but until he adapts that potential to the Pro game, he's still a one-trick pony.
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Old 08-20-2007   #48
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Are you talking about the games against Indy, where he lost but almost brought them to victory single handedly?Or the the game against us?I mean how much football do you watch?I'll tell you I've watched since the 1970s and have seen QBs take teams that had no business winning and turn them into playoff teams. Stats don't do everything. Once a guy shows a team he can win it for them, the defense plays better, the whole team gets the same feeling. Is it coincidence that Henry averaged over a yard more a carry starting with the games VY played?The only game I hear people point to is the J'Ville game.
Well if its all about inspiration and not about performance then lets slap a skirt on him and give him some pom poms and make him the highest paid cheerleader in league history. B/C the man has no business being an NFL QB.
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Old 08-20-2007   #49
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Your analysis is so off it isn't even funny. I guess to people like you, I have to ask point blank why a team who won "with defense and other ways" happened to go 0-5 under one QB and then almost make the playoffs under another guy?
Your analysis is even worse. Am I to believe the Titans played 18 games last season? Where do I get that number you ask? Well here is the math for you. Vince Young went 8-5 as a starter last season, while according to you Kerry Collins went 0-5, so the Titans somehow finished 8-10.

By the way, 0-3 under the previous QB should be enough to make your point, but I do understand that it sounds better to say the Titans went 0-5 under him. It leads people to believe that the Titans went 8-3 under Vince Young.
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Old 08-20-2007   #50
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
How can any Texan fan want Vince Young to succeed? If it is because of what he did for UT, I have a news flash, he no longer plays for the Horns. Root for Colt McCoy now, not VY. VY succeeding means Bud Adams succeeding and the Texans failing. How can you root for that?

Hey, I was one of the most vocal about wanting the Texans to draft the guy, but I would rather be proven wrong by having the Titans losing and the Texans winning instead of just having the right to say "I told you so". I was right about Carr and that is enough "I told you so" for me.
This is what baffles me. I don't think I have ever seen such a large percentage of a fanbase actually root for a DIVISIONAL RIVAL'S quarterback like this. I understand the love for UT, but like Hookem said, he doesn't play for Ut, he's a Titan!!! It sucks that we didn't get him, but that is in the past. So far it looks like we are doing ok for ourselves at that position right now and I'm looking forward to the Texans succeed and VY and the Titans fail.
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Old 08-20-2007   #51
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
eh...cloak, VY had some pretty impressive stats his last year at UT....you may want to look them up. anyway...I need to go make some tea or something.
YUP.... He led the nation in completion percentage....... sounds like another quarterback I know.....
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Old 08-20-2007   #52
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
Um, let's see...

1. Their Defense played better? The last time I looked VY didn't play on "D"
2. Close doesn't count.
3. I already gave hime the "W" against us (see previous postl).

My "analysis" isn't based on the ESPN hype machine, it's based on rational analysis of the game of football, especially as it's played at the Professional level. Are you going to try and sell us all on how great Trent Dilfer is next? He must've INSPIRED the Baltimore Ravens to their Superbowl run in 2000-2001... right? (I hope this sounds as absurd to you as VY winning a game that he looked lousy in, but his Defense played fantastic in does to me.)

BTW - I didn't once use the word STATS, nor did I compare him to anyone else. VY has potential, but until he adapts that potential to the Pro game, he's still a one-trick pony.
Every person on here is fooling themselves if they don't think that confidence in a team, starting with a leader, doesn't inspire better play all around. You either have never played the sport or haven't watched it long if that is the case. My background on this has nothing to do with ESPN. It has to do with being interested in teams in Texas and watching a guy win games on different levels. All I know is that the Titans had the worst ranked defense last year yet somehow people are giving them credit for doing more than VY. We have RBs who were doing nothing and ALL OF a SUDDEN they are averaging almost a yard more. You have special teams who had done nothing playing inspired ball. A guy doesn't have to be on a unit to inspire it or lead a team. My point isn't to give VY all the credit but to realistic look at where their turn around began.

You are just hating if you think otherwise. People need to step back from their hate and just look at the scenario. Otherwise you are just blowing hot air. Their record improved greatly and he won games. Add to that he was a rookie whom many said would take 3 years to groom. People like to point out the game where their defense stepped up yet ignore the Giants game where he was 24-35(corrected) for 249 and 2 TDs and rushed for 69 with another TD or his win against Indy or Buffalo where he was 13-20 for 183 2 TDs and ran for 61 and another TD. He had stat bad games too but overall nice for a guy who "wasn't developed" yet.

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Originally Posted by BattleRedToro View Post
Your analysis is even worse. Am I to believe the Titans played 18 games last season? Where do I get that number you ask? Well here is the math for you. Vince Young went 8-5 as a starter last season, while according to you Kerry Collins went 0-5, so the Titans somehow finished 8-10.

By the way, 0-3 under the previous QB should be enough to make your point, but I do understand that it sounds better to say the Titans went 0-5 under him. It leads people to believe that the Titans went 8-3 under Vince Young.
Sorry that I got the record wrong. My bad. I was trying to reference the teams start of 0-5. What does that have to do with the analysis of them still almost making the playoffs?I didn't think so. Keep trying.

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Well if its all about inspiration and not about performance then lets slap a skirt on him and give him some pom poms and make him the highest paid cheerleader in league history. B/C the man has no business being an NFL QB.
Pure stupidity. Maybe one of the dumber things I have ever read. Sorry, in the words of Ricky Bobby, "that is just dumb."

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Originally Posted by BigTimeTexanFan View Post
This is what baffles me. I don't think I have ever seen such a large percentage of a fanbase actually root for a DIVISIONAL RIVAL'S quarterback like this. I understand the love for UT, but like Hookem said, he doesn't play for Ut, he's a Titan!!! It sucks that we didn't get him, but that is in the past. So far it looks like we are doing ok for ourselves at that position right now and I'm looking forward to the Texans succeed and VY and the Titans fail.
I don't like the guy because he went to UT. I didn't go there. I don't like the guy because of hype. I've watched him since high school. I'm only trying to bring realism to the board about being a true football fan. People think that if someone is on a rival then people can't RESPECT the talent. I like our team. I didn't want to draft VY. But the things people are saying are plain wrong and it stems from an immature attitude towards rival players.

As for realism, I think he will have an alright year. I don't find him to be the second coming. They have no receivers so he is screwed. But I still think the guy is a winner and will win in the league and be a guy guys want to play with.
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Old 08-20-2007   #53
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Every person on here is fooling themselves if they don't think that confidence in a team, starting with a leader, doesn't inspire better play all around. You either have never played the sport or haven't watched it long if that is the case. My background on this has nothing to do with ESPN. It has to do with being interested in teams in Texas and watching a guy win games on different levels. All I know is that the Titans had the worst ranked defense last year yet somehow people are giving them credit for doing more than VY. We have RBs who were doing nothing and ALL OF a SUDDEN they are averaging almost a yard more. You have special teams who had done nothing playing inspired ball. A guy doesn't have to be on a unit to inspire it or lead a team. My point isn't to give VY all the credit but to realistic look at where their turn around began.

You are just hating if you think otherwise. People need to step back from their hate and just look at the scenario. Otherwise you are just blowing hot air. Their record improved greatly and he won games. Add to that he was a rookie whom many said would take 3 years to groom. People like to point out the game where their defense stepped up yet ignore the Giants game where he was 24-25 for 249 and 2 TDs and rushed for 69 with another TD or his win against Indy or Buffalo where he was 13-20 for 183 2 TDs and ran for 61 and another TD. He had stat bad games too but overall nice for a guy who "wasn't developed" yet.



Sorry that I got the record wrong. My bad. I was trying to reference the teams start of 0-5. What does that have to do with the analysis of them still almost making the playoffs?I didn't think so. Keep trying.



Pure stupidity. Maybe one of the dumber things I have ever read. Sorry, in the words of Ricky Bobby, "that is just dumb."



I don't like the guy because he went to UT. I didn't go there. I don't like the guy because of hype. I've watched him since high school. I'm only trying to bring realism to the board about being a true football fan. People think that if someone is on a rival then people can't RESPECT the talent. I like our team. I didn't want to draft VY. But the things people are saying are plain wrong and it stems from an immature attitude towards rival players.

As for realism, I think he will have an alright year. I don't find him to be the second coming. They have no receivers so he is screwed. But I still think the guy is a winner and will win in the league and be a guy guys want to play with.
wow, is that a take not born out of hatred and envy? maybe some of yall will grow up so they can construct takes of equal merit.

dont hold your breath.....

the guys hating on VY are the same guys that had David Carr pictures in their locker room and had laundry lists of excuses for him..in other words..no credibility whatsoever...but people are entitled to their opinions no matter how wrong they are....its just par for the course with some of the guys around here
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Old 08-20-2007   #54
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

SH.... Completely NOT true. My hate for VY comes from the fact that he played at a rival HS, rival University and finally for the tinnbreads...
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Old 08-20-2007   #55
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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SH.... Completely NOT true. My hate for VY comes from the fact that he played at a rival HS, rival University and finally for the tinnbreads...
TB, if you hate the guy then you admit that your takes are biased and are not going to be honestly objective. But that is your right as a fan and any Texans fan who actually wants VY to succeed is probably not a real fan.

my point was that VY had a damn good season last year and isn't a bad QB like some would say. He also isn't a media creation and he earned the OROY. I know you don't think he is a bad QB; you just don't like the guy due to his history, team allegiances, etc. That is totally cool and understandable.

Although I am a Longhorn homer, I don't put VY over the Texans. It would have been nice if our hometown team would have drafted him and got rid of Carr a year earlier, but it didn't happen. Nothing I can do about it. I support the Texans and my name is on the glass outside the stadium to prove it. My blood bleeds Liberty Blue and Battle Red on Sunday...I just don't have a problem being constructive and objective with my takes and don't blindly hate on someone because he plays for a rival. VY has lots of deficiencies in his game but his positive attributes far outweigh the negatives at this point in his career and it may only get better for him. Sadly for VY, the Titans have little to no talent around him and they have Bud as an owner. 31st in payroll....you aint gonna win many division titles much less Super Bowls with Bud as an owner....he is just a cheap fatass.

I think I am going to have to stay away from Mario threads and VY threads for a while because they tend to be frequented by trolls and/or homers. There is so much positive stuff going on with the Texans maybe we all, including myself, should spend more time accentuating the postitives rather than standing mired in a pool of negativity and flame threads. The OL and QB just look so much better this year.
What changed? oh yeah, i know

TB, I have always been down with you even when we have disagreed. no hard feelings fellow Texans fan.
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Old 08-20-2007   #56
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

Fair enough, absolutely no worries, SH!!!

I just think until he learns how to become a pocket passer, he will be Mike Vick (and I refer to Vick the player - nothing else).

I thought the Oilers were wise in their approach with Steve McNair. McNair came from a spread offense too, but was afforded the opportunity to watch the "professional game" and then got his feet wet. He was able to become a pocket passer and only ran when necessary which enhanced him as a weapon. Teams could not 'spy him' for fear of being picked apart in the secondary...

Until VY learns those things, he (IMHO) will be nothing more than a novelty. (Again, see Vick).
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Old 08-20-2007   #57
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

McNair came from Alcorn st where they didn't have anything close to a NFL offense or competition....most small school guys take a bit longer to develop than players from larger programs. Frankly, imo, people who don't see the difference in Mike Vick and VY are either tunnel vision homers or are not being honest.
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Old 08-20-2007   #58
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
How can any Texan fan want Vince Young to succeed? If it is because of what he did for UT, I have a news flash, he no longer plays for the Horns. Root for Colt McCoy now, not VY. VY succeeding means Bud Adams succeeding and the Texans failing. How can you root for that?
The reason I root for VY is because I went to 2 amazing Rose Bowl games. While VY played for UT, I wasn't a big supporter and was very pessimistic about his NFL career. However, after going to the National Championship game, I realized VY had done more for me as a football fan than whatever anyone else had ever done. It's an amazing experience to go to one of the greatest games of all time.

With all that said, the Texans really haven't done squat. If it wasn't for tailgating and an awesome stadium with great seats, the Texans organizaiton would be worthless at this point in my perspective.

Bottom line is, the Texans need to win and establish their own history. Which they haven't done!

Also, VY openly campaigned to play for the Texans and they didn't select him.

Why should I blindly follow an organization that still hasn't put up winner and continues to make questionable first round draft choices (just think if we didn't Andre Johnson?)?

You keep bringing this point about the Titans and Bud Adams. I was a big Oiler fan too, but I don't have the same feelings as you do about Bud. I definitely understand your perspective though, but don't really have the same strong feelings.

QBs play a long time, and as much as everyone makes of VY's running ability, he is probably an even better football player. The guy has the will to win and the football play in him to adapt and continue his career in my opinion.

Time will tell. As time moves on for me though, my interest in VY becomes less and less concerning my Rose Bowl experiences. In other words, he is just becoming another player in the NFL.

If the Texans could make a decent playoff run, well that would take care of the VY thing all together.

Really, if you think about it, this whole VY thing is really an issue about the questionable personnel decisions the Texans have made. VY is just a flash point to that. If the Texans had went 8-8 or better in 2005, they wouldn't have been in the position to draft VY, and no one would have cared about this whole situation in the first place.
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Old 08-20-2007   #59
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

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Frankly, imo, people who don't see the difference in Mike Vick and VY are either tunnel vision homers or are not being honest.
Completely agree!
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Old 08-20-2007   #60
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Default Re: Interesting SI Article on VY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
McNair came from Alcorn st where they didn't have anything close to a NFL offense or competition....most small school guys take a bit longer to develop than players from larger programs. Frankly, imo, people who don't see the difference in Mike Vick and VY are either tunnel vision homers or are not being honest.
Thus my use of the term.... ."Spread offense". Thats what Alcorn State ran and thats what Texas ran (with VY - we'll see if they change that up with McCoy)

Frankly, people that cant see similiarities between Vick and VY AND put VY on a pedestal without having accomplished jack are either tunnel vision homers or are not being honest!
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