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Vick pleads not guilty and other urban legends.

610 just reported during the news flash that "Michael Vick is person of interest in a dog fighting ring in Arizona"......
 
Yeah, i saw that & all of the other crap surrounding this case & i must say that i'm going to change my tune right now on whether i think he'll ever play again in the NFL. I still think that he could beat these charges & any new ones that they possibly plan to bring against him for his freedom, but Goodell has steadily been backing himself into a corner since the suspension of pacman came down.

Plus, PETA & all the emotion they're bringing to the case will sort of force him to do something in excess of the pacman suspension which will be to ban him from the league.

I'm not going to say that i would completely agree with it, but at least Goodell would be consistent & if it serves as a "shot heard round the world" in this case the league, then i guess i can't complain.

Hell, at least he's letting the facts lead him instead of geting caught up in the wave of judgement that many people have already began to surf.
 
Texan_Bill said:
He can beat the case...

Signed,

That .01%






j/k
Click to expand...

Lol, I'll put it like this, if OJ & those cops in the rodney king ordeal can beat their cases, he can as well.

On a side note i wonder what the plea deal was that he rejected.
 
OJ wasn't indicted by the federal government. Vick doesn't have the luxury of the inept LAPD trying to convict him.
 
Vick to face no-nonsense judge in "rocket docket" court

When Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick appears in federal court next week, he'll stand before a no-nonsense judge unimpressed by Vick's celebrity and in a court known nationwide for its speedy handling of cases.

quote ... "You don't get any special perks because of who you are, and you don't get punished because you aren't somebody who is a public figure."

The U.S. District Court in Richmond has come to be renowned as the "rocket docket" for getting its cases handled quickly. Vick faces charges of sponsoring a brutal dog fighting ring.
 
Double Barrel said:
OJ wasn't indicted by the federal government. Vick doesn't have the luxury of the inept LAPD trying to convict him.
Click to expand...

Who cares, whether it's fed time or state time you still have to do time.

& yeah, he only has the squeaky clean gub'ment...
 
WaywardTexanFan said:
Vick to face no-nonsense judge in "rocket docket" court

When Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick appears in federal court next week, he'll stand before a no-nonsense judge unimpressed by Vick's celebrity and in a court known nationwide for its speedy handling of cases.

quote ... "You don't get any special perks because of who you are, and you don't get punished because you aren't somebody who is a public figure."

The U.S. District Court in Richmond has come to be renowned as the "rocket docket" for getting its cases handled quickly. Vick faces charges of sponsoring a brutal dog fighting ring.
Click to expand...

doesn't really matter now considering the right to a speedy trial was rejected by the defense & they were handed an extra 6 plus weeks until his actual court date.
Many were expecting it to at least begin in Oct.
 
If this thing goes to trial and the evidence is similar or worse than the indictment, it won't matter if Vick is found not guilty with regard to Vick playing in the NFL again.

Too much pressure will be brought to bear and as mentioned earlier, and the burden of proof for a criminal case is higher than a civil case. With that said, I suspect the the burden of proof from a civil case to a lifetime ban by
Goodell will be even lower.

If Vick wants to play in the NFL again, he needs to plea to probation, become a permanent spokesman against this type of activity for PETA or whatever, and just come clean. The details of this trial will be too much regardless if he is found not guilty in a criminal case.

This case is going to be very ugly in details and people care more about dogs than they do people.
 
Vick pleads not guilty...what were you expecting him to do?

nfl_a_vick1_412.jpg


ESPN Article: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2950226

RICHMOND, Va. -- Michael Vick pleaded not guilty Thursday to federal dogfighting charges and was released without bond until a Nov. 26 trial.

The Atlanta Falcons quarterback and three others entered their pleas in U.S. District Court to conspiracy charges involving competitive dogfighting, procuring and training pit bulls for fighting and conducting the enterprise across state lines. Federal prosecutors say the operation -- known as Bad Newz Kennels -- was run on Vick's property in Surry County..

"Today, you all either heard or saw Michael take his first step toward proving his innocence," Vick's attorney, Billy Martin, said. "We intend to prove Mike's innocence at trial."

The trial date was set for Nov. 26 at 9:30 a.m. Vick waived his right to a speedy trial.

"I take these charges very seriously and look forward to clearing my good name," Vick said in a statement read outside court by Martin.

'I respectfully ask all of you to hold your judgment until all of the facts are shown. Above all, I would like to say to my mom I'm sorry for what she has had to go through in this most trying of times. It has caused pain to my family and I apologize to my family. I also want to apologize to my Falcon teammates for not being with them at the beginning of spring training," he said.
Click to expand...
 
What is the FED's conviction rate against famous people with money ?

Sure they have a high conviction rate against those who can't afford high power attorneys...

But what are they looking like against powerful teams of Lawyers ?
 
Originally I wanted Vick to get convicted because I think he's guilty.

Now, I no longer care.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
What is the FED's conviction rate against famous people with money ?

Sure they have a high conviction rate against those who can't afford high power attorneys...

But what are they looking like against powerful teams of attorneys ?
Click to expand...

I beleive I read somewhere that their conviciton rate was close to 97%......... Period.
 
Where's all the lefties on this Board who are always running around shouting things about peoples civil liberties and how they should have their day in court if charged. This is one of the most incredible examples of a "rush to judgement" I've see lately. And I'm very much a conservative on a lot of things, and I might add I also happen to be white.
Oh, and for those of you that think the Feds don't make mistakes, that assume those charges against Vick are 100 % for sure, that the Feds are infallible, what a laughter !
I seem to recall a pretty large mistake the Feds made awhile back about their reasoning for being concerned about this country in the MidEast because it was, they said, a threat to our national security. They said that country was a threat to our nation because it had something called "WMD" ? So the Feds invaded that country. How's that looking now ? Huh ?
You bet your sweet butt the Feds make mistakes. Sometimes damn big ones.
 
hollywood_texan said:
If this thing goes to trial and the evidence is similar or worse than the indictment, it won't matter if Vick is found not guilty with regard to Vick playing in the NFL again.

Too much pressure will be brought to bear and as mentioned earlier, and the burden of proof for a criminal case is higher than a civil case. With that said, I suspect the the burden of proof from a civil case to a lifetime ban by
Goodell will be even lower.

If Vick wants to play in the NFL again, he needs to plea to probation, become a permanent spokesman against this type of activity for PETA or whatever, and just come clean. The details of this trial will be too much regardless if he is found not guilty in a criminal case.

This case is going to be very ugly in details and people care more about dogs than they do people.
Click to expand...


It almost seems that way & it saddens me in regards to the bolded. Vick is fried either way in the court of public opinion & i now think his fate is sealed as far as the NFL goes b/c of it...... That is unless that good ol' american short term memory kicks in. Elle's right, we should just sit back & let this die until the actual trial begins b/c either way goodell's got his guy (highly qualified guy i might add) on it.
 
nunusguy said:
Where's all the lefties on this Board who are always running around shouting things about peoples civil liberties and how they should have their day in court if charged. This is one of the most incredible examples of a "rush to judgement" I've see lately. And I'm very much a conservative on a lot of things, and I might add I also happen to be white.
Oh, and for those of you that think the Feds don't make mistakes, that assume those charges against Vick are 100 % for sure, that the Feds are infallible, what a laughter !
I seem to recall a pretty large mistake the Feds made awhile back about their reasoning for being concerned about this country in the MidEast because it was, they said, a threat to our national security. They said that country was a threat to our nation because it had something called "WMD" ? So the Feds invaded that country. How's that looking now ? Huh ?
You bet your sweet butt the Feds make mistakes. Sometimes damn big ones.
Click to expand...

Deep breath....let it out...feel better?

Federal goverment and Federal court are not as realted as you seem to think.
 
Mr teX said:
[/b]

It almost seems that way & it saddens me in regards to the bolded. Vick is fried either way in the court of public opinion & i now think his fate is sealed as far as the NFL goes b/c of it...... That is unless that ol' american short term memory kicks in.....
Click to expand...

Vick isn't fried in the court of public opinion...

There are just as many people who could care less about dogs as there are people who care adamantly about them...
 
nunusguy said:
Oh, and for those of you that think the Feds don't make mistakes, that assume those charges against Vick are 100 % for sure, that the Feds are infallible, what a laughter !
I seem to recall a pretty large mistake the Feds made awhile back about their reasoning for being concerned about this country in the MidEast because it was, they said, a threat to our national security. They said that country was a threat to our nation because it had something called "WMD" ? So the Feds invaded that country. How's that looking now ? Huh ?
You bet your sweet butt the Feds make mistakes. Sometimes damn big ones.
Click to expand...
1. You're comparing the CIA / FBI data on terrorism & Saddam Hussein to Federal prosecutorial records? Hello Mr Straw-man, nice to see you again. Remember, even though the ATF f'ed up the arrest of D. Koresh, the Prosecutors still got their convictions.

2. There are FACTS here that you're overlooking - The fact that the dogs were fighting at all, or being bred on Vick's property doesn't even seem to be in question by EITHER side. That's a mighty big coincidence to overcome in court. This isn't Donald Trump with MANY different homes he splits time in.

3. Even if the Feds blow this one, the State still gets it's chance on similar charges...with all the discovery of the Gov't at it's disposal. Feds got to bring charges for INTERstate transport of these animals for the purposes of fighting. The State of Virginia is next if the Feds muck it up...and with less burden (as they don't have to show the transport).

Don't let the Nifongs of the world make you bet against the odds on this one. Give Vick his due process, but remember that the Feds are pretty thorough.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Vick isn't fried in the court of public opinion...

There are just as many people who could care less about dogs as there are people who care adamantly about them...
Click to expand...

Maybe not to the extent i'm thinking, but enough to where owners will stay away from him in an attempt to avoid a PR disaster & enough to where goodell might feel he needs to go above & beyond to save "the shield".

Also good post above Elle...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
That's understood...

What I'm asking is what is their conviction rate against those of high status ?
Click to expand...
That may be too difficult to define, though I'm interested to know as well. I'd also be interested in the breakdown by class of offense. (ie. Murder is harder to prove than Manslaughter, etc.)
 
Elle said:
Ever work for a criminal attorney? Your lawyer will wave you off when you say you are not guilty. They will say..."I have the indictment, I have CERTAIN questions and you say nothing else. Understood?" You: "uh....ok." Lawyer: "I have ceratin elements to deal with here. I need you to shut up." You: "Uh....ok." Been there, done that.

Vick has a plan. Something is going down. Or he would have made a bargin.

$5 bucks says I'm right.

Law sucks in this area. I hate it. Should have gone for corporate take overs.:cool:
Click to expand...


I agree with ya here Elle....

I just can't see Vick hiring attorneys that didn't know what they were doing...

Of course Federal prosecutors are probably some badd azzes themselves, but I just can't see a plea of not guilty if they weren't fairly confident in getting the verdict to swing their way...

Maybe the case isn't as air tight as everyone seems to think...
 
Mr teX said:
Maybe not to the extent i'm thinking, but enough to where owners will stay away from him in an attempt to avoid a PR disaster & enough to where goodell might feel he needs to go above & beyond to save "the shield".

Also good post above Elle...
Click to expand...

If Vick is exonerated I think he will be fine as far as his NFL career goes.

If he makes it through this I would safely assume Vick wouldn't even throw a toothpick out his Car window for fear of being caught littering...

But we shall see...We just have to let it all unfold...
 
Elle said:
Ever work for a criminal attorney? Your lawyer will wave you off when you say you are not guilty. They will say..."I have the indictment, I have CERTAIN questions and you say nothing else. Understood?" You: "uh....ok." Lawyer: "I have ceratin elements to deal with here. I need you to shut up." You: "Uh....ok." Been there, done that.

Vick has a plan. Something is going down. Or he would have made a bargin.

$5 bucks says I'm right.

Law sucks in this area. I hate it. Should have gone for corporate take overs.:cool:
Click to expand...

Elle, the Feds could have their case so locked solid and are so sure of a conviction, they won't accept a plea aggreement or any type of deal. (Keep in mind, this is a great case to get some national exposure and many of these prosecutors turn into politicians later.)

Then Vick's choice is to give up and take his sentencing from the judge, or take some big swings and hope he gets lucky some how.

Besides, if Vick had a good plan, he wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I just can't see Vick hiring attorneys that didn't know what they were doing...
Click to expand...

Vick's attorneys are probably going to get paid regardless of outcome.

Also, the more the facts are against Vick, the less people will hold those attorneys responsbile for not getting a not guilty verdict. They can only work with what they got...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
What is the FED's conviction rate against famous people with money ?

Sure they have a high conviction rate against those who can't afford high power attorneys...

But what are they looking like against powerful teams of Lawyers ?
Click to expand...

The court in which Vick is being tried the feds have a 99% conviction rate. That particular district is known for having it's ducks in a row when it indicts someone. You can bet they have a good deal of solid evidence on Vick.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Vick's attorneys are probably going to get paid regardless of outcome.

Also, the more the facts are against Vick, the less people will hold those attorneys responsbile for not getting a not guilty verdict. They can only work with what they got...
Click to expand...




So how do you think their conversation went ?

Attorney: Hey Mike, the case is air tight against you....I suggest a plea bargain...

Mike: Screw that

Attorney: Ok...it's your money...




This isn't a fantasy world....

This is real life....


Think about what you're saying.....

High powered attorneys don't go to court representing high profile people to lose...C'mon, be serious....

If they didn't think Vick had a good chance to beat the charges they would have advised him so....And if My high dollar attorney is telling me that it's best to plea bargain I'd be a fool not to listen...
 
Red_Zone said:
The court in which Vick is being tried the feds have a 99% conviction rate. That particular district is known for having it's ducks in a row when it indicts someone. You can bet they have a good deal of solid evidence on Vick.
Click to expand...


Ok...

Again...How many high profile cases like this have been handled in this 'particular district'...

You can't look at this case as if it were a regular case, because it's not....Trying to apply the logic of past cases doesn't work in this instance...
 
hollywood_texan said:
(Keep in mind, this is a great case to get some national exposure and many of these prosecutors turn into politicians later.)
Click to expand...


My point exactly...


Convict Mike....gain exposure....

How do you know that someone isn't so hungry for a conviction against Mike that they aren't being overly aggressive while pursuing a verdict of guilty ?

You can't look at this case like every other case that has passed through their court...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Vick isn't fried in the court of public opinion...

There are just as many people who could care less about dogs as there are people who care adamantly about them...
Click to expand...

I think you're wrong on that, even most people who don't care about dogs aren't inhuman enough to want to see them beaten, shot and or electocuted for failure, not to mention that they also wouldn't want to see them chew each other up in a three hour fight. A large majority of people in this country own pets, either dogs or cats or others and don't like to see animals abused. The people who would not be appalled and disgusted by what Vick "allegedly" did are few and far between. I have not spoken to one person yet who was not sickened by what is in that indictment.
 
Elle said:
High power cuircut, high power lawyers, bottom line...High power level playing field. If these guys didn't have a chance of saving his ass and career, they would have folded their hand.

Translation: I know something you don't know and you have some Slaining to do, Lucy. See...the number one rule about being any kind of lawyer is that you never ask a question that you do not already have an answer for. THE answer for. Ergo, my position is Vick's guys have something to really trip this clock or Vick has them convinced he can trip the clock. These are federal lawyers. It's pretty hard to blow smoke up thier panties.:cool:
Click to expand...

I know at least one of Vick's lawyers former clients who is doing time in a federal Pen, Former Atlanta mayor Bill Campbell. Not only was he a high profile case like Vick he himself was a lawyer and a lot more savvy than Vick.
 
Red_Zone said:
I think you're wrong on that, even most people who don't care about dogs aren't inhuman enough to want to see them beaten, shot and or electocuted for failure, not to mention that they also wouldn't want to see them chew each other up in a three hour fight. A large majority of people in this country own pets, either dogs or cats or others and don't like to see animals abused. The people who would not be appalled and disgusted by what Vick "allegedly" did are few and far between. I have not spoken to one person yet who was not sickened by what is in that indictment.
Click to expand...


1) Vick did that sh!T...I know he did

2) It was nasty and disgusting

3) Now that I think about it, you're right...Most of the people who aren't disgusted by (and even aprove ) what he did aren't the one's buying tickets to NFL games...

So in that essence yeah, you all are right...
 
If anything , Vick cost himself millions of dollars through endorsements . I also believe he'll get cut .

Whether it's dogfighting , drug trafficking , sexual assualt , or man slaughter ... it's a felony offense and I do not believe atheletes are above the law . I also believe that someone squealed on Mikey and he's toast .
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
So how do you think their conversation went ?

Attorney: Hey Mike, the case is air tight against you....I suggest a plea bargain...

Mike: Screw that

Attorney: Ok...it's your money...




This isn't a fantasy world....

This is real life....


Think about what you're saying.....

High powered attorneys don't go to court representing high profile people to lose...C'mon, be serious....

If they didn't think Vick had a good chance to beat the charges they would have advised him so....And if My high dollar attorney is telling me that it's best to plea bargain I'd be a fool not to listen...
Click to expand...

One problem with a plea deal for Vick. Has anyone considered that a plea deal involves admitting guilt which would almost certainly result in at least a year suspension from the NFL (or more) and a complete loss of all income from endorsements for life. A guilty plea may also result in him being released from the Falcons immediately. The way I see it Vick has no choice but to see the trial through and hope his lawyers can slick him out of it.
 
Elle said:
RZ...you know I don't like to fight issues with you. In this case, as is what is the law of the land, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Even if the charge is a purse snatch.

Whatever pet owners think is irrelevant. It's the law of the land. It's a non issue unless they are on the jury.

Voir Dire will last forever because this does involve dogs until the judge reigns in everyone and reminds them that tax evasion is a higher priority here.

I'm sorry to say, but the animal issue will fall behind the income issue and failure to pay taxes. Maybe that's why Vick went to Not Guilty. He could have stashed gambling inside his absurd NFL monies.

Personally, I think the 2 other i d i o t s involved will be nailed with tax fraud, the animal issue will evaporate and Vick is gone like smoke. Maybe he never plays in the NFL again. But, he certainly won't go quietly into the night.
Click to expand...

"Innocent until proven guilty" only matters inside the courtroom. It has absolutely no standing in corporate america or in reality. If you kill someone you are a murderer the instant that persons heart stops beating, however the court must assume your innocence until proven guilty in a court of law. But that's just the court, the NFL, the Falcons and the fans are free to think what they want and they are free to judge Michael guilty until he proves his innocence.

If a Day care worker is indicted of sexual abuse of children do you seriously think the day care center has to consider him innocent till proven guilty in a court of law and let him continue to work there? Of course in that case the judge would probably order him to stay away from children till his case was ajudicated but you get the idea. The fans are under no obligation to adhere to the innocent till proven guilty and most of them are pet owners so it does matter what they think.

Vicks problems may be just beginning, the State of Va. may still indict in September and now the rumblings coming out of Arizona don't sound good at all. If he is involved in something in yet another state he is definately finished.
 
Elle said:
RZ...you know I don't like to fight issues with you. In this case, as is what is the law of the land, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Even if the charge is a purse snatch.

Whatever pet owners think is irrelevant. It's the law of the land. It's a non issue unless they are on the jury.

Voir Dire will last forever because this does involve dogs until the judge reigns in everyone and reminds them that tax evasion is a higher priority here.

I'm sorry to say, but the animal issue will fall behind the income issue and failure to pay taxes. Maybe that's why Vick went to Not Guilty. He could have stashed gambling inside his absurd NFL monies.

Personally, I think the 2 other i d i o t s involved will be nailed with tax fraud, the animal issue will evaporate and Vick is gone like smoke. Maybe he never plays in the NFL again. But, he certainly won't go quietly into the night.
Click to expand...

Elle, I believe RedZone was refering to public opinion not the trial itself. Public opinion matters as much as the verdict as far as whether or not the NFL will take action against him.
 
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