Who starts at LG?

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by TheOgre

Is Steve McKinney signed through the end of this season or 2005?

According to this from ESPN, he is signed through 2006:

March 6, 2002--Signed free agent guard Steve McKinney to a five-year contract.

[aj.]

McKinney's cap numbers:

2004 - $3,050,000
2005 - $3,850,000
2006 - $4,600,000

700k annual proration of signing bonus

[DominatorDavis]

the offensive line up, barring no injuries or surprise FA acquisitions, will be as follows:

LT Chester Pitts
LG Milford Brown
C Steve McKinney
RG Zach Weigert
RT Todd Wade

I would like to see Wand in there as well but he is still just too raw. In the time that he was on the playing field last year he looked lost and confused. I hope he develops.

[edo783]

Is it just me, or do those numbers seem pretty high for what I would catagorise as an "Average" center at best? Now, he may be an above average gaurd, but that isn't where he is playing (should he?). By the way, thanks AJ for keeping us all straight on the numbers.

[Vinny]

I can see them restructuring McKinney before next year (if possible), or going another direction.

I just cannot see Wand as one of the best Guards on the team this season. AJ made a good case why not. I think he would get bull-rushed to death (as well as Carr would be). We have too many Hendersons, Hainsworths, and Strouds in the AFC Central for a weaker, lanky, 3 year Tackle project to hold up the Guard slot well enough to keep Carr upright. I am just fine with Wand playing in situational packages and special teams this year.

Everyone wants to move all our projects right into the line-up ASAP. Heck, most of this mb had zero patience with Hollings last year when he was in the last stage of rehab. Tons of people were down on this guy because he didn't produce like Priest Homes in flashes. Heck Priest Holmes did not produce like Priest Holmes early in his career. With that said, Wand may surprise. Players have done it before. I would consider Wand at LG a low-odds situation.

[V Man]

Where does this Wand at LG come from? He has always been list or considered a LT prospect, and nothing else. I have heard many a time that the Texans would love to move Pitts back to LG where he was when he was drafted, and put Wand at LT when he is ready. But that is probably still two seasons away.

[TheOgre]

Originally Posted by aj.

McKinney's cap numbers:

2004 - $3,050,000
2005 - $3,850,000
2006 - $4,600,000

700k annual proration of signing bonus

Okay so if we cut him next offseason, he still would count 1.4 million against the cap for his signing bonus. AJ, do you happen to know if he has any guaranteed money tied into his 2005 or 2006 salaries? If he has no guaranteed moneys, we could save about $7 million in cap space and start someone that is as good or better than him.

I hope that the switch to the zone blocking scheme will help him perform better.

[keyfro]

actually if you look at our player roster we're loaded at tackle and not gaurd...offensive tackles: bachman, dawson, jones, lekkerkerker, pitts, silvers, wade, wand, and wiergert(still listed as a tackle)

gaurds and centers: weary, washington, powell, mckinney, martin, evans, and brown

most of those guys are also centers not gaurds...still would like to see us add one more veteran gaurd to the mix...overall though the depth is much improved than the first two years...and the quality is there...wand at LG would be interesting given the zone scheme this year but i still don't see it...look for brown to be the starter

[aj.]

offensive tackles: bachman, dawson, jones, lekkerkerker, ... silvers

Yeah, that's some depth all right. I was talking about guys with at least a smidgen of experience, guys who have at least played in an NFL game and not street free agents, NFLE allocations, and practice squad developmental types.

We're nearly two-deep at the interior line positions with proven players; Washington, McKinney, Wiegert (he's at home at G), Weary, and even Milford who has only a couple games experience but he proved he could play before his injury. At tackle, we have Pitts and Wade as our only two experienced tackles and an inexperienced Wand backing up both positions. Wiegert is an emergency tackle but he wasn't performing well at tackle at Jax in '02 before he was injured.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by DominatorDavis

I would like to see Wand in there as well but he is still just too raw. In the time that he was on the playing field last year he looked lost and confused. I hope he develops.

I don't want to come off as jocking Wand, but he does have as much experience in NFL games as Milford Brown does. I'm not sure how Brown became such a savvy vet after 2 games. And I'm not sure if Seth would look any more lost and confused than Milford did in the Saints game. If Wand is too raw to play LG, the Texans should find another tackle, as well. Because Wand is just a Pitts injury away from protecting Carr's blindside.

Going back to my original point, no one has firmly established himself as the player to beat at LG. If there is a favorite, it would have to be Todd Washington who started 14 games in '03 and re-signed for a $500K bonus. But who really knows who will come to the forefront through mini camps, training camp, & the preseason games? To my knowledge, no one posting here has seen the Texans run even skeleton drills with the new blocking scheme. Anyone who states that Brown or any one else will be the LG is just speculating (I'm certainly not suggesting anything else). The Texans have a cadre of potential LGs, but none may be the answer. If they're loaded at anything at LG, it's with question marks.

[vtech9]

Originally Posted by Lucky

I don't want to come off as jocking Wand, but he does have as much experience in NFL games as Milford Brown does. I'm not sure how Brown became such a savvy vet after 2 games. And I'm not sure if Seth would look any more lost and confused than Milford did in the Saints game. If Wand is too raw to play LG, the Texans should find another tackle, as well. Because Wand is just a Pitts injury away from protecting Carr's blindside.

Going back to my original point, no one has firmly established himself as the player to beat at LG. If there is a favorite, it would have to be Todd Washington who started 14 games in '03 and re-signed for a $500K bonus. But who really knows who will come to the forefront through mini camps, training camp, & the preseason games? To my knowledge, no one posting here has seen the Texans run even skeleton drills with the new blocking scheme. Anyone who states that Brown or any one else will be the LG is just speculating (I'm certainly not suggesting anything else). The Texans have a cadre of potential LGs, but none may be the answer. If they're loaded at anything at LG, it's with question marks.

Just curious Lucky, but do you have a copy of the Saints game to watch? I don't, but I do remember that Brown was doing a pretty good job until he blew his knee out. His replacement did look a little lost if I remember correctly, and it was either Weary or Washington that replaced him. I think Brown went out pretty early, so I think you are mistaking one of the others for him.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
I would like to see Wand in there as well but he is still just too raw. In the time that he was on the playing field last year he looked lost and confused. I hope he develops.

You aren't watching the same games I am watching. He was a surprisingly solid run blocker when I saw him play and didn't strike me as a player who looked "lost and confused".

Originally Posted by Lucky

I don't want to come off as jocking Wand, but he does have as much If Wand is too raw to play LG, the Texans should find another tackle, as well. Because Wand is just a Pitts injury away from protecting Carr's blindside.

I don't understand what you can't see. Wand's strength is not what I would consider at "Guards" strength. Guards take on the bull-rushers. This is the weakest area of Wands game, and I'm sure you are aware of this. Surely you don't think the Guard and Tackle spots are just interchangeable do you? With Guards just being lesser Tackles? They have different skill sets, and Wand is clearly better suited at taking on a quicker edge guy than a stronger bull-rusher from what I have seen. I'm not sure I am following your logic.

Originally Posted by Lucky

Going back to my original point, no one has firmly established himself as the player to beat at LG. If there is a favorite, it would have to be Todd Washington who started 14 games in '03 and re-signed for a $500K bonus.

Todd Washington is the LAST guy I want to see as our starting Guard. He was terrible in pass protection and when he had to move. He was great as long as he has a guy right in front of him, but if he needed to step to anyone he would whiff. If Washington is starting we have serious problems with Brown. Brown looked good to me last year. He was a powerful run blocker and his feet weren't stuck in cement like Washintons were.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by vtech9

I don't, but I do remember that Brown was doing a pretty good job until he blew his knee out.

I believe Brown went out in the 4th when the game was pretty much in hand for the Saints. In fact, I thought at the time he had been pulled in favor of Washington. I didn't even realize he was injured until after the game. I don't think dominated is too strong a word for what happened to Brown against Grady Jackson. No push in the running game, allowing penetration that forced Carr out of the pocket, holding penalty, missing Whitehead on an inside stunt. It was a horrible game ended by a knee injury. Not that Brown was alone in his ineptness, as the entire Texan O-line was just shredded that day in New Orleans. And that's after one of their greatest performances (Brown included) in the Dolphin game. I am not saying that Brown cannot become a very good guard for the Texans. What I am saying is that we don't really know enough off of 2 games (one good, one not) to state that as fact.

My postulations on Wand at LG were predicated on a) Wand getting stronger in the offseason & b) Wand getting more knowledgeable of NFL line play in the offseason. No, Wand 1.0 could not have effectively played guard or tackle on a regular basis. He did a good job as an extra blocking TE, but he did make some mistakes (the sack that took Carr out of the Colt game for one). Wand is certainly capable of getting stronger and that may be happening now. Like the rest of his teammates, he's learning a new blocking scheme. How all of that translates to the field remains to be seen, I'm just not going to dismiss Wand making that big jump this offseason. If he does get stronger & "smarter", what Wand would then lack is experience. It is not so uncommon that players drafted at tackle begin their careers at guard, Luke Petitgout of the Giants is another example. It allows a guy to get some action under fire without getting a QB killed by an edge rusher. Wand is probably the lineman with the most "upside" on the Texans, is it so unlikely that he may earn a spot on the line that I shouldn't even bring up the possibility?

[A Texan]

Since Wand has a documented learning disability, I wouldn't slow down his development by moving him to guard. He's a long term project that will probably pay dividends at the tackle spot (right or left) eventually.

[Porky]

Which "documented learning disability" are your referring to?

[infantrycak]

Link

Doesn't specify.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Wand is probably the lineman with the most "upside" on the Texans, is it so unlikely that he may earn a spot on the line that I shouldn't even bring up the possibility?

No, but I (speaking only for me) wasn't following your logic too well. I understand that part of it, but just because a guy may be a solid Tackle, doesn't make him a good Guard by default. A Guard has to deal with a different dynamic than a Tackle does.

Mike Munchack may have been the best lineman I have ever seen play in Houston, but he wasn't the best Tackle on many Oiler teams. Guys like Harvey Salem or even Bruce Matthews were better on the edge than Munchack would have been but neither of them could play Guard like Munchack could (you could make a case for Bruce, but he is a hall-of-Fame lineman also...and I would take Munch over Bruce at their prime for one game at G). Just because someone is a great Tackle (or even a good Tackle) it doesn't automatically mean that they can play Guard as well.

[Porky]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Link

Doesn't specify.

Ok, thanks for the link. I had not heard of that before concerning Wand. All I know is Boselli said last summer that Wand was picking things up very quickly, so I will take that opinion at this point until I hear differently.

[edo783]

I believe that Wand has Dyslexia (transposes words, numbers or sees them kind of backwards). Don't know how bad it affects him, but most people with it learn to work with it pretty well.

[done88]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

Surely you don't think the Guard and Tackle spots are just interchangeable do you? With Guards just being lesser Tackles? They have different skill sets, and Wand is clearly better suited at taking on a quicker edge guy than a stronger bull-rusher from what I have seen.

I wish someone would tell Mckinney this. Just because he is a great Guard does not mean he is a great Center. The best lineup for next year would be:
Pitts
Mckinney
Washington
Wiegert
Wade