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Old 07-06-2007   #101
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

And the legend grows to 3 1st rounders.
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Old 07-06-2007   #102
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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On the post draft thing they have on Channel 13, McNair and Casserly were on. When asked about trade offers, they said the Jets offered them the two firsts, and a mid round pick, but they wanted a 2nd rounder thrown in, which didn't happen.
I heard that Jets offered Jonathan Vilma, (5) 1st round picks and a percentage of the team's ownership. Man I hate Charley Casserly.
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Old 07-07-2007   #103
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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I heard that Jets offered Jonathan Vilma, (5) 1st round picks and a percentage of the team's ownership. Man I hate Charley Casserly.

BS man..

it was jon vilma, kerry rhodes, 2 1st rounders, a meadowlands goalpost, the rights to all and any cameo appearances in the soprano's, and a box of crayons

casserly sucks!
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Old 07-07-2007   #104
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

Whatever the deal was, it was idiotic not to make a trade with the Jets. Even an extra fourth would have been good. We still get Mario and pay him a lot less. Not bad for a cap strapped team.

Bush, VY, Lienart, D'Brick, AJ Hawk were all bigger needs than DE, and all much better college players than Mario. I never saw the point of wasting the 1st overall pick on a mediocre college player with good combine stats, but I guess that is why I am not a GM.
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Old 07-07-2007   #105
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
Bush, VY, Lienart, D'Brick, AJ Hawk were all bigger needs than DE, and all much better college players than Mario. I never saw the point of wasting the 1st overall pick on a mediocre college player with good combine stats, but I guess that is why I am not a GM.
Wrong again. At the time they did not need a QB, 3rd down back or MLB. They had players in place to fill those positions at the time. LT certainly was a position of need at the time, but DE was the teams biggest need and that position is one of the highest paid and most coveted positions in the NFL. It certainly isn't running back, especially scatback. Since you've turned this thread into a lesson in revisionists history let's try to interject at least a few facts. First off, Vince Young was not rated at the top QB on many boards. If Tennessee didn't take him at 3 he possibly falls out of the top 10. I realize that it's fun to look back at him as the best QB prospect to ever enter the NFL draft, however that's just not the case.

Yeah, everyone here is an NFL GM in their own mind. It's easy to second-guess people that have to actually make the decisions.
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Old 07-07-2007   #106
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

With Weaver, Babin, and TJ, a ton of money was already in the D-Line. Peek was a situational pass rusher. End wasn't great, but it wasn't the biggest need either.

The RB was an injured guy that was used up even before the injury. DD was nothing more than a scat back as well.

QB did have Carr locked up, and at the time, there was a chance that Kubes teaching could make him better.

LT, we all know the problem there

MLB Can you name one of the starters at MLB during the Capers run? With the system switch, new LBs needed to be added both inside and out.

If you have huge holes at key positions (QB, LT, RB, MLB are more important than DE), it seems like those would take priority over a luxury pick/ project player, who again, was mediocre in college, but was expected to dominate in the NFL.
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Old 07-07-2007   #107
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
Whatever the deal was, it was idiotic not to make a trade with the Jets. Even an extra fourth would have been good. We still get Mario and pay him a lot less. Not bad for a cap strapped team.

Bush, VY, Lienart, D'Brick, AJ Hawk were all bigger needs than DE, and all much better college players than Mario. I never saw the point of wasting the 1st overall pick on a mediocre college player with good combine stats, but I guess that is why I am not a GM.
Rumors at the time suggested that Williams was going to go to New Orleans at 2. He thought he was going to go to New Orleans, and when he was doing team visits, had spent two days in New Orleans.

To call Mario Williams a mediocre player with good combine stats is revisionist history. Most of the nice articles about Williams were put together before the draft--after the draft, a bunch of people who never saw him play wrote some nasty stuff because he wasn't VY/Bush.

For example, he is not the same style of player as Julius Peppers, he did come out of the same conference. Do you find both of their sets of stats mediocre:

Career stats:

Mario Williams: 126 solo tackles / 25 1/2 sacks / 55 1/2 tackles for loss

Julius Peppers: 128 solo tackles / 30 1/2 sacks / 53 tackles for loss

Their junior stats are pretty similar too:

Mario Williams: 62 tackles, 14.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 blocked kick, 1 safety, 4 fumble recoveries, 27.5 tackles for loss

Julius Peppers: 63 tackles, 9.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble and 3 interceptions, including one returned for a touchdown.

Oh, and Mario Williams is a TRUE junior and not a redshirt junior so he's getting these stats at a younger age. And he had three different defensive coordinators who asked him to do different things.

Idiotic not to trade with the Jets? You can only make the trade if the trade is there. As you said, you could still get a good player at 4, so why would anyone trade away their entire draft if you can still get a good player at 4?

In switching to the 4-3, a real 4-3 defensive end was a premium position and not one that is easy to get in free agency.
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Old 07-07-2007   #108
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

AJ Hawk was going to be the pick according to Payton (but yeah there were rumors before the draft).

As far as Mario being a mediocre college player, he was. He built all his monster stats again teams like Duke and Junior colleges, but when it came to real colleges, he got destroyed and turned into a non factor. D'Brick clowning him and tossing him around like a blocking bag was one of D'Brick's highlights.

Teams feared Manny Lawson and doubled him far more than Mario.

The difference between he and Peppers is that Peppers actually had technique to go along with his physical gifts. Meaning that if he couldn't physically out match a guy, he could still beat him. Where as Mario depends totally on his gifts to get by. If he can bullrush the guy, he'll be great. If the OT can match him physically, Mario does nothing.

Of Mario's 14.5 sacks, 1.5 actually came from any real opposition, the rest were from cupcake teams.
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Old 07-07-2007   #109
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

For all you pitiful VY Reggie Crybabbies, I have something you might find hard to choke down but it is the absolute truth. They are the enemy and thats that. Remember, Vince signed the line when Bud the Dud stuck the paper in his face, just as Arron did When Jerra stuck the papers in his face. So quit teasing us and pull the trigger already.
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Old 07-07-2007   #110
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
AJ Hawk was going to be the pick according to Payton (but yeah there were rumors before the draft).

As far as Mario being a mediocre college player, he was. He built all his monster stats again teams like Duke and Junior colleges, but when it came to real colleges, he got destroyed and turned into a non factor. D'Brick clowning him and tossing him around like a blocking bag was one of D'Brick's highlights.

Teams feared Manny Lawson and doubled him far more than Mario.

The difference between he and Peppers is that Peppers actually had technique to go along with his physical gifts. Meaning that if he couldn't physically out match a guy, he could still beat him. Where as Mario depends totally on his gifts to get by. If he can bullrush the guy, he'll be great. If the OT can match him physically, Mario does nothing.

Of Mario's 14.5 sacks, 1.5 actually came from any real opposition, the rest were from cupcake teams.
You gotta link on AJ Hawk to New Orleans, cuz I never saw it and I looked.

The two main complaints about Peppers prior to his draft is that he took plays off and that he got his stats against teams like the Citadel.

Here's some writing from people who actually saw Williams play in college:

link

As for fear of Lawson instead of Williams--well, Williams was named MVP of the team, so I am guessing that's how they saw things.

This is what Manny Lawson said about Mario: "His numbers were great, but if people think they were down at all it's because every team we played ran the ball away from him. Teams were scared to death of Mario."
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Old 07-07-2007   #111
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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With Weaver, Babin, and TJ, a ton of money was already in the D-Line. Peek was a situational pass rusher. End wasn't great, but it wasn't the biggest need either.

The RB was an injured guy that was used up even before the injury. DD was nothing more than a scat back as well.

QB did have Carr locked up, and at the time, there was a chance that Kubes teaching could make him better.

LT, we all know the problem there

MLB Can you name one of the starters at MLB during the Capers run? With the system switch, new LBs needed to be added both inside and out.

If you have huge holes at key positions (QB, LT, RB, MLB are more important than DE), it seems like those would take priority over a luxury pick/ project player, who again, was mediocre in college, but was expected to dominate in the NFL.

DE was a huge need. Again, it is one of the most coveted and highest paid positions in the NFL.

Domanick was an every down back. Reggie is a scatback that can't run between the tackles and is more of a pass catcher than a true running back.

Jamie Sharper, Jay Foreman, Kailee Wong, Morlon Greenwood all played inside LB for Capers. Sam Cowart and Wali Rainer were signed last offseason to play MLB.
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Old 07-07-2007   #112
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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Domanick was an every down back.
I would re-phrase that as "Domanick was being used like he was an every down back."

I think the shortness of his career proved that he wasn't an every down back - and he probably would have been better served as the 3rd down back/return specialist he was scouted to be coming out of LSU.

You can argue genetics if you want, but I think those 370 touches in '04 played a role in accelerating the end of his NFL career.
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Old 07-07-2007   #113
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I would re-phrase that as "Domanick was being used like he was an every down back."

I think the shortness of his career proved that he wasn't an every down back - and he probably would have been better served as the 3rd down back/return specialist he was scouted to be coming out of LSU.

You can argue genetics if you want, but I think those 370 touches in '04 played a role in accelerating the end of his NFL career.
totally agree with this.
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Old 07-07-2007   #114
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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Whatever the deal was, it was idiotic not to make a trade with the Jets. Even an extra fourth would have been good. We still get Mario and pay him a lot less. Not bad for a cap strapped team.

Bush, VY, Lienart, D'Brick, AJ Hawk were all bigger needs than DE, and all much better college players than Mario. I never saw the point of wasting the 1st overall pick on a mediocre college player with good combine stats, but I guess that is why I am not a GM.
Ladies and Gentilman we have a winner for the best post of the year in the catagory of how to be a worst GM than Charlie Casserly.

Congratz.

Speech! Speech!
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Old 07-07-2007   #115
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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Ladies and Gentilman we have a winner for the best post of the year in the catagory of how to be a worst GM than Charlie Casserly.

Congratz.

Speech! Speech!
Yeah. Helping out the cap by getting the guy you want 3 spots later with an extra pick would be stupid.

Use the pick on D'Brick, draft Anderson with the 4th rounder, and get a better pass rusher and a solid LT.
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Old 07-07-2007   #116
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

Has it ever occurred to you that Mario is who the head coach wanted? Interesting thought...they drafted who they wanted.
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Old 07-07-2007   #117
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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Yeah. Helping out the cap by getting the guy you want 3 spots later with an extra pick would be stupid.

Use the pick on D'Brick, draft Anderson with the 4th rounder, and get a better pass rusher and a solid LT.
and use our 7th rounder on colston right? oh and sign drew brees in FA etc etc
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Old 07-07-2007   #118
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

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As far as Mario being a mediocre college player, he was. He built all his monster stats again teams like Duke and Junior colleges

Of Mario's 14.5 sacks, 1.5 actually came from any real opposition, the rest were from cupcake teams.
and who did peppers get his stats against in college again?? great hindsight though
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Old 07-08-2007   #119
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Default Re: Bob McNair ranked 7th best owner

About Mario: When I saw him play in Tallahassee against the Noles we (FSU) were absolutely afraid of him. We ran to his side I think 3 times and didn't pick up any yardage. He was terrorizing our offensive line the entire game. We lost that game BTW. That's about as much I saw of Mario in college.
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Old 07-08-2007   #120
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About Mario: When I saw him play in Tallahassee against the Noles we (FSU) were absolutely afraid of him. We ran to his side I think 3 times and didn't pick up any yardage. He was terrorizing our offensive line the entire game. We lost that game BTW. That's about as much I saw of Mario in college.
Why would you bring personal observations into this discussion? We need to realize that most NFL fans base their opinions on whatever ESPN and/or other media outlets tell them to think so bringing facts, observations, stats, etc. into the conversation is useless in a lot of cases. ESPN said that Mario was not a good college player so there is no reason to argue the contrary because they are the "leaders in sports" or whatever they claim.
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