Carr-Schwab-Williams-Young

[Bipolar The Titan]

that would be crazy if the Panthers won the NFC South.

[Blazing Arrow]

Originally Posted by Bipolar The Titan

that would be crazy if the Panthers won the NFC South.

Carr ..... 2007 NFC MVP

[Bipolar The Titan]

Originally Posted by Blazing Arrow

Carr ..... 2007 NFC MVP

no... league mvp... even better!

[Blazing Arrow]

Originally Posted by Bipolar The Titan

no... league mvp... even better!

Well we all know who is going to get that .....

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Blazing Arrow

Carr ..... 2007 NFC MVP

Alright, I had a suspicion, but now it's confirmed: put down the crack pipe!

[Bipolar The Titan]

[HJam72]

Ouch.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by HJam72

The answer to your question is they didn't yet know that Carr wasn't a great QB about to emerge, and they screwed up royally. Nothing against Williams, but they did. Just keep in mind that they might've taken Leinart instead. I'd be happy with either one of those two QBs and our second round pick back this year and next (Schaub trade) for losing Williams. They screwed up, but Williams is no slouch, had a bad foot last year, and will be a force to reckon with this coming year.

I've got nothing to back this up, this is all from the gut, but it makes more sense than what you have here. No offense HJam, if that's what you think it was, it just doesn't compute to me. You've got a guy who has been developing for 4 years and looks worse than he did on day one. You don't give that guy a three year deal & $8million if you don't know that he has it. If there was any uncertainty, you just let him walk, and try again.

Everything Kubiak said about David is as true today, as it was last January. He's got the size, he's got the arm, he's pretty athletic, and he's tough as nails. there is no reason to believe he won't be playing in the Super Bowl one day.

But think about all the players we've lost for no good reason. Sharper, Glenn, Coleman, Walker, Gafney, Robaire, Wand, and there were quite a few others. They weren't amoung the best in the league, but they were amoung the best players we had, and they still had a few years left in them. Think about Wand, it makes absolutely no sense to let him go the way we did, to keep Brad Bedell, who wasn't trusted to play the remainder of a game when our starter was on IR, and our back-up was obviously playing with tremendous pain.

And with everything that went down at the end of the season, I think David Carr was tearing this team apart.

IMHO, Kubiak figured we can continue to whittle this team down until we can actually start building around David Carr.

Or we can build our team around what was not a bad team in spite of David Carr.

Now David is in a good place... he's the back-up on what is relative to us, a winning team. They expect to win. If David can get that back, then who knows, maybe we'll see him in the Super Bowl. Maybe he'll be on the cover of Madden 2010. Maybe he'll be a top ten QB.... who knows??

[Runner]

Originally Posted by Bipolar The Titan

..."out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?
...

Manning probably would have gotten hurt.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Bipolar The Titan

you give me too much credit. I haven't really seen those threads. I'm sure they are there. ok... for anyone who wants to entertain some "out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?

I see what you're getting at. You're asking are we smart enough to know that a guy getting sacked over 200 times in 4 years means the OL sucks.

well, we know that we have protection issues. But the most honest guys here will tell you about the fresno tuck, they'll tell you about the fetal position, they'll tell you about the times our QB tripped on his own two feet, and just waited for the defense to jump on him.

Not like that play where Vince tripped on his own feet, then jumped up and threw a pretty dang good pass to Drew Bennette(I think it was Bennette) but Faggins just jumped in front of him and took that ball away.

Or when Plummer ate the dirt in our preseason game, but he bounced up and threw like a 30 yard strike.

Our guy layed there, and took the sack.

People around here want to be nice, but if you count all the times David pulled the ball back in (on a three step drop no less) that ended up in sacks, then half of his sacks in 2006 were on him.

Originally Posted by Bipolar The Titan

follow up question... what do you say if it turns out Carr has a monster year with the Panthers? What then?

I'd say it took getting cut for him to wake up and start playing football.

Now let me ask you this. What would you say, if Benette, Wade, Henry & Brown go on to the ProBowl, and all of them make it to the play-offs, while you & Vince watch from Hooters?? What then?? How would you feel if David Givens is out for another season??

Y'know, stuff happens. We all make questionable decisions that don't work out the way we planned(Chris Brown... Lendale White.. PacMan Jones).. no reason to keep bringing it up.

[Runner]

It is kind of funny. The first two or three years it was all the line's fault, and Carr was a golden boy with no faults for many on the board. I know there were some exceptions, but the majority blamed the line for all the problems. Now it is all Carr's fault and our line is good just the way it is.

I think Carr as a player and the o-line as a group all had problems, but I'm starting to sound like a troll on that subect.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Runner

It is kind of funny. The first two or three years it was all the line's fault, and Carr was a golden boy with no faults for many on the board. I know there were some exceptions, but the majority blamed the line for all the problems. Now it is all Carr's fault and our line is good just the way it is.

I think Carr as a player and the o-line as a group all had problems, but I'm starting to sound like a troll on that subect.

Yeah, it's kinda wierd how somethings improve over time, and other things don't.

[Runner]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Yeah, it's kinda wierd how somethings improve over time, and other things don't.

And some things never change.

The world really is kind of grey, though I admit black and white thinking is much easier. That must be its allure.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Runner

And some things never change.

The world really is kind of grey, though I admit black and white thinking is much easier. That must be its allure.

We saw the same thing happen in '07. David played decent at the beginning of the year, and the rest of the team was blah... as the season went on, the rest of the team improved quite a bit. The run game was much better at the end of the year than it was at the beginning. The defense, better at the end of the year.... the QB play.... not as good. Everything has improved around him, but him.

color it black, white, gray, whatever, it's still a duck.

[Texan_Bill]

LMAO....

David Carr is now the enemy! I hope he does as poorly as I hope Manning, VY or anyone playing against the Texans will do - other than that, good luck to the guy - MOVE ON... GAME OVER...

Coulda, shoulda, woulda.... Let it die people.

We just put more quarters in the game to play again. Lets just hope that Schaub can live up to the "potential" that the team valued so highly... If he sucks, bench him like Kubiak finally did with Carr in Tennessee. I don't think Kubes will coddle Schaub the way Carr was coddled under Capers.

I also beleive that Kubes (or the coaches) won't instruct Schaub to lock in on one receiver as Andre Johnson had suggested was being done with Carr... For all of those reasons (and many more), we will see great improvement from that position on the field. The real question is, will it be enough to make our O - go!

Well, thats why they play the games...

[Shaft75]

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill

I also beleive that Kubes (or the coaches) won't instruct Schaub to lock in on one receiver as Andre Johnson had suggested was being done with Carr...

He has mentored and played with some great NFL qbs. You are very true in that assesment. Gary just needs a qb that can at least digest a playbook or see that a good offensive system has a concept.
BUT... I think we need to get off the qbs and talk more about dbs... That is going to be are main struggle this year.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

We saw the same thing happen in '07. David played decent at the beginning of the year, and the rest of the team was blah... as the season went on, the rest of the team improved quite a bit. The run game was much better at the end of the year than it was at the beginning. The defense, better at the end of the year.... the QB play.... not as good. Everything has improved around him, but him.

color it black, white, gray, whatever, it's still a duck.

I've mentioned it before, toward the end, we played against many teams who were not good at defending the running game. Kubiak was taking advantage of that and ran the ball more. True, Carr did regress some. But no, the O-line did not improve its pass protection.

[The Dream]

Because before last year's draft the Texans were already set at the QB position. Carr was the face of the franchise and the man of the future. Carr just never had a chance to success due to bad coaching and Kubiak was going to get him going in the right direction. Any fan that said other wise was just a UT homer or had no clue about football.

OR actually knew what the hell they were talking about...

[ledzeppelin229]

Regardless of the Young debate, Carr was on thin ice and should have been replaced, whether it was Young or someone else. Not everyone that was sick of Carr was a UT homer that cried themselves to sleep when Mario was picked.

I had hopes that Kubiak would make him a functional QB, at the very least. But he just reverted back to the Pendry/Palmer gameplan - which clearly reflects the player moreso than the coaches. His role devolved the same way under three different OCs which definitely reduces Carr's coaching excuses.

[The Dream]

^^i agree..before VY even decided to come out I thought it was time for the texans to head in another direction.....