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Old 04-13-2007   #1
Double Barrel
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Default Drew Bledsoe retires...HoF?

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QB Drew Bledsoe retires after 14 years

Drew Bledsoe retired Wednesday, ending a 14-year career in which he made two Super Bowls.

The top overall pick by New England in the 1993 draft out of Washington State, the four-time Pro Bowl quarterback played for the Patriots, Buffalo Bills and Dallas Cowboys. He was a starter for all three teams, but ended up as a backup with the Cowboys.

Bledsoe threw for 44,611 yards and 251 touchdown passes in his career.

----------------------------------------

He finishes seventh all-time in yards passing, 13th in touchdown passes and fifth in completions (3,839).
When I first heard the news that he retired and the subject of HoF came up, I wasn't sure where I stood. But his stats sort of speak for themselves, and I could see a case being made to let him in.

What do y'all think?
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Old 04-13-2007   #2
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Great QB's, not good QB's get let into the HoF.

And there's a strong argument that Bledsoe was not even a good QB.

There are much more deserving people that should be let in that may not play in a 'glamour spot'.
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Old 04-13-2007   #3
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I don't know, ensign lee...something about 44,611 passing yards (seventh all-time) indicates to me that he was at least a good QB. I'm not saying that Belsoe is great, but I think a case could be made for him.

I'm still on the fence to be honest. I've never been all that impressed with Bledsoe...nice guy and upstanding citizen and all, but if I had a vote, I'd be torn (which probably tells me that I'd vote 'no').
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Old 04-17-2007   #4
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Bledsoe was a really good QB (not great) for most of his time in NE and a couple years further in his career as well. Overall, though, he didn't do enough. If he had won the Super Bowl with the Pats back in Parcells' time, I think he'd get in. As it stands, I think it's a pretty clear No. Vinny Testaverde has a ton of yards as well, but I think most would agree he's not HoF-caliber.

I like Bledsoe, and when he came into the league, I figured all the passing records would be his. He really was that good early in his career. But I think he was an anachronism at QB. As defenses changed over the past decade, the classic pocket QB has become less and less effective. It's too bad, because he was a smart QB with a great arm, and he carried himself with class and dignity throughout his career. Teams could have done worse at QB than Bledsoe.
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Old 04-17-2007   #5
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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
When I first heard the news that he retired and the subject of HoF came up, I wasn't sure where I stood. But his stats sort of speak for themselves, and I could see a case being made to let him in.

What do y'all think?
exactly why you should watch games and not 'just' look at stat lines in the NFL. Stats do not extrapolate like they do in baseball where there is more of a one on one match up with a pitcher confronting a hitter. I can scan a baseball stat sheet from year to year and name all the guys who should be in the all star game...I really can't do that in football since there are 22 guys on the field and you can scheme out any one player in any offense, or double or triple team a defender for your specific needs.

I don't see Bledsoe as a hall of famer any more than I see Ernest Givens or Haywood Jeffries (just a quick example off the top of my head of skewed stats in football) from the run n shoot era even though they always had great stats.
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Old 04-17-2007   #6
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I don't see Bledsoe as a hall of famer any more than I see Ernest Givens or Haywood Jeffries (just a quick example off the top of my head of skewed stats in football) from the run n shoot era even though they always had great stats.
Just an off-topic aside: Haywood Jeffires would have been a good receiver on any team, I think. That guy had height, jumps, and good hands. In fact, if he had been in his prime in the mid-to-late '90s, he might have been one of the key players in the big WR movement that happened. I think the R&S hurts the perception people have of him as a player. He would have been good on any team (I'm not saying HOF, obviously).
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Old 04-17-2007   #7
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was allways a big fan of his, but I don't think he was a HOF QB. He never made those big time wins like Montana, Elway, or Aikman.
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Old 04-17-2007   #8
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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
exactly why you should watch games and not 'just' look at stat lines in the NFL. Stats do not extrapolate like they do in baseball where there is more of a one on one match up with a pitcher confronting a hitter. I can scan a baseball stat sheet from year to year and name all the guys who should be in the all star game...I really can't do that in football since there are 22 guys on the field and you can scheme out any one player in any offense, or double or triple team a defender for your specific needs.

I don't see Bledsoe as a hall of famer any more than I see Ernest Givens or Haywood Jeffries (just a quick example off the top of my head of skewed stats in football) from the run n shoot era even though they always had great stats.
yep, that's why I prefaced my statements about feeling unsure about him. I've watched Bledsoe for years and have never felt that I was watching "greatness" (unlike watching Marino, Elway, Montana, etc). If I had a vote, I'd probably vote "no" based upon what I've seen.

BUT, the media likes to play the stat game, which is why I brought it up. There are a few in the HoF that I might not agree with (for instance, Jim Kelly or Warren Moon...outstanding talents that I've got great respect for, but I never saw the "IT" factor that made the rest of the team play for them through adversity). A lot of guys are let in because of stats or popularity, but I personally think the honor should be reserved for the best of the best.

Interesting that you bring up Heywood Jeffries and Ernest Givens, whose stats are padded because of the system. Couldn't the same be said for Moon and Kelly, who used very pass intensive offenses?
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Old 04-17-2007   #9
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yep, that's why I prefaced my statements about feeling unsure about him. I've watched Bledsoe for years and have never felt that I was watching "greatness" (unlike watching Marino, Elway, Montana, etc). If I had a vote, I'd probably vote "no" based upon what I've seen.

BUT, the media likes to play the stat game, which is why I brought it up. There are a few in the HoF that I might not agree with (for instance, Jim Kelly or Warren Moon...outstanding talents that I've got great respect for, but I never saw the "IT" factor that made the rest of the team play for them through adversity). A lot of guys are let in because of stats or popularity, but I personally think the honor should be reserved for the best of the best.

Interesting that you bring up Heywood Jeffries and Ernest Givens, whose stats are padded because of the system. Couldn't the same be said for Moon and Kelly, who used very pass intensive offenses?
Well, Moon did it in college, the CFL, Minnesota, and Seattle. I think he pretty well demonstrated that he was one of the most prolific passers in pro football history. As for Kelly, I'd lean towards saying that he belongs. The offense that he ran was designed because of his talents. He showed he could play in the USFL as well, though there were no post-Bills games to see.

As for the "it" factor and Moon, I think Moon is an example of a top talent that did the things he did despite not really being perceived as a leader. With the racial undertones in Houston at the time, I don't think the media chose to portray him as a leader of the football team. I do think the team responded to his performance, however - at least the offense did. There definitely seemed to be a disconnect between the offense and defense, as compared to Bum's earlier teams, for instance. I definitely see where Moon had the "it" factor. I didn't get to watch enough of Kelly to really tell, but if your team makes it to the Super Bowl four years in a row, that team is rallying behind someone. The NFC during that era was just so dominant.
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Old 04-17-2007   #10
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Old 04-17-2007   #11
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Well, Moon did it in college, the CFL, Minnesota, and Seattle. I think he pretty well demonstrated that he was one of the most prolific passers in pro football history. As for Kelly, I'd lean towards saying that he belongs. The offense that he ran was designed because of his talents. He showed he could play in the USFL as well, though there were no post-Bills games to see.
Don't get me wrong, I like Moon. But saying that "he was one of the most prolific passers in pro football history" simply goes back to black and white stats. He was most prolific because of the run & shoot, the style of offense he ran. Take out his stats and what do you have? No team he was on that ever made it to an AFC Championship game, much less Super Bowl. Good QBs do more than just throw the ball and compile stats when you consider intangibles. (By comparison, you can say that Bledsoe was one of the most prolific passers, as well, with 44,611 yards and 251 touchdown passes in his career.)

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As for the "it" factor and Moon, I think Moon is an example of a top talent that did the things he did despite not really being perceived as a leader. With the racial undertones in Houston at the time, I don't think the media chose to portray him as a leader of the football team. I do think the team responded to his performance, however - at least the offense did. There definitely seemed to be a disconnect between the offense and defense, as compared to Bum's earlier teams, for instance. I definitely see where Moon had the "it" factor. I didn't get to watch enough of Kelly to really tell, but if your team makes it to the Super Bowl four years in a row, that team is rallying behind someone. The NFC during that era was just so dominant.
I like Kelly, as well. He was one of the top QBs of his era (or at least top 10 when you consider who else was playing at the time).

But like I mentioned, I think the HoF should be 'best of the best', and you can't draw a line in the sand for one player but then a different line for another. If Championships matter for individual stats in a team sport, then they matter. If individual stats matter in a team sport, then they matter.

Going back to the "IT" factor, Moon threw a perfect first half against the Bills in that game. He had a 33 point lead at one point. But then he laid an egg for two quarters, where he threw a pick (or two?) and did not inspire his offense or defense to play better. It is an interesting question to wonder if other QBs would have faired better, but it's merely a mental exorcise and not meant to disrespect Moon.

Bledsoe has been to two Super Bowls and has one ring. Sure, it was Tom Brady winning, but the Pats would not have been there if Bledsoe had not led them to victory in the AFC Championship game against the Steelers a couple of weeks before (when Brady was out due to injury).
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Old 04-18-2007   #12
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Hall of Fame QB's dont geat beat out x3.

Brady
Holcomb/Losman
Romo

He is NOT a HOF QB period. I dont understand why people bring numbers into this.

You either are, or you arent. I shouldnt have to be convinced by stats.
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