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Old 03-29-2007   #1
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Post Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

Okay....word is that Schaub has promise and may be a good QB. Wasn't the same thing said about Carr? If we start to see the same things happen to Schaub as happened to Carr then what? And if Carr goes on to be a pretty good QB somewhere and Schaub starts looking like Carr did as a Texan...I guess I am asking if it is a QB issue or is there more to it? O-Line maybe?

The thing is that they've tried to fix the O-Line for 5 years now. They had Boseli and were burned by that SD signing. They have drafted high with several players leading to injury or busts. I believe we will continue to try to fill the spots through the draft but a solid FA signing would go a long way to improving thats what I am looking for.

My biggest problem with the Texans is that they gave the QB starting job away with out any competition. Carr never competed for the job. If he would have had to prove his talent and work harder to earn it, we may not be having this discussion. Now we have given the starting QB to Schaub without him competing. What does that say to all the other players coming into camp?


Every position should be earned, not given away.

Do we really know he is who we think he is?

Most coaches want to see a person play for them and win the job before being named starting QB. Seriously guys, I just don't get it.
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Old 03-29-2007   #2
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

Is he better than anyone on the roster...YES

Is he better than anyone we could of taken in the draft...Many NFL experts say YES

Is he an upgrade over Carr...90%(or more) say YES

Is he better than the guy every one wanted till we got him, Sage...ANY DAY
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Old 03-29-2007   #3
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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Originally Posted by Imatexanfan View Post
Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!
no.
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Old 03-29-2007   #4
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

Only time will tell...I wonder how long will Schaub get if he falters this season
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Old 03-29-2007   #5
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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Originally Posted by Imatexanfan View Post
My biggest problem with the Texans is that they gave the QB starting job away with out any competition. Carr never competed for the job. If he would have had to prove his talent and work harder to earn it, we may not be having this discussion. Now we have given the starting QB to Schaub without him competing. What does that say to all the other players coming into camp?

Every position should be earned, not given away.

Do we really know he is who we think he is?

Most coaches want to see a person play for them and win the job before being named starting QB. Seriously guys, I just don't get it.
There are several differences.

1. If Schaub starts playing badly, there will be NO hesitation to pull him and start someone else. With Carr that was never an option. If he was playing bad, the idea was to let him play through it and that really hurt his maturation as a QB.

2. Whenever you have a big FA signing, they automatically have the starting job and have to really screw up in camp or on the field to lose it. That's exactly what we've got here. Schaub will have to screw this up to lose it.

I'm a big proponent of competition but you have to be realistic about it. AND, if Sage or one of the other QB's really looks better than Schaub, I think that Kubiak will choose the guy that gives him the best chance to win. And in the end, that's competition.
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Old 03-29-2007   #6
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

*looks perplexed*

you really think between Sage, Van Pelt and Porter there would really be that much of a competition? .......
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Old 03-29-2007   #7
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
There are several differences.
AND, if Sage or one of the other QB's really looks better than Schaub, I think that Kubiak will choose the guy that gives him the best chance to win. And in the end, that's competition.
wrong.
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Old 03-29-2007   #8
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

I say start the guy who can do the most jumping jacks.
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Old 03-29-2007   #9
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

First, Schaub didn't come out of college with a 'laundry list' of mechanics that needed to be corrected in order to be effective., like Carr.

Second, unlike David, all indications are that Matt is a team player and a 'positive' in the locker room. Carr was a 'loner' and a 'me first' player.

Third, Schaub will do the 'extra' work it takes to become a better player, including pre-game prep. Carr would not, even though he had about 6 months/yr w/family and the avg NFL career is less than 5yrs.

Fourth, Schaub is a leader, type of player his team mates will rally around.

Fifth, Schaub isn't being thrown into a 'fire.' He's had 3 yrs to get ready for this opportunity, so that is an advantage over Carr's situation.

Hopefully, Matt is a person that can admit his mistakes/learn from them/ and minimize them from happening over and over. Too, though, he needs to shut out those mistakes when they happen and move on--be aggressive and do what it takes to win.
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Old 03-29-2007   #10
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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Originally Posted by Imatexanfan View Post
Okay....word is that Schaub has promise and may be a good QB. Wasn't the same thing said about Carr?
Here here!

I say we go out and draft someone that word says has no promise and may be a bad QB.

If you are playing a dice game, you gotta roll 'em.
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Old 03-29-2007   #11
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

Well if Schaub is a mistake, it will not be for the same reasons Carr was.

Schaub has played in several NFL games, preseason, and had an established collegiate career, so there are some things that can be observed about his style, approach, and weakness.


Schaub is almost the antithesis of Carr in style and function:

He can read defenses at the line and generally is unflappable
He has a quick release, and accurate arm
He is noted for his pocket sense being able to feel pressure and shift slightly to maximize the protection or throwing lanes
He has good arm motion and mechanics so very few balls will be batted down
He reads through progressions efficiently
He is known for being a film student and having high initiative to embrace leadership
Is very competitive and wants to win


If he fails, it will not be for the reasons above. I'm rather excited to see what he does in the offense, where the playbook will not be paired down and audibles can be expected. While the offensive line is not great, I suspect he is able to elevate it by making it harder for defenses to read the play, create more weapons to defend for, and will have less odds of defenses surprising him.

As far as weaknesses known:
He has fumbled some balls when sacked
Does not have an arm like Cutler
May crumble under the pressure of a full season at the helm instead of shine at back up duty
May not be durable under the Oline and injury could hamper him

He is most often compared to Brady. If he is 80% the QB Brady is we are in very good shape.
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Old 03-29-2007   #12
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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Originally Posted by Imatexanfan View Post
Okay....word is that Schaub has promise and may be a good QB. Wasn't the same thing said about Carr?
Are you suggesting we should go after guys that are described as 'no upside and will probably be a really bad QB'?

Schaub is a prospect. That's what it ALWAYS takes to get a franchise QB. NO team trades a healthy franchise QB that is still in their prime. (note the words healthy and in their prime before countering please)

A team has three choices when it comes to acquiring a QB:

--get a proven, quality veteran who is up there in age (step 2: look for a prospect to replace them)
--get a young prospect the team thinks can be a franchise QB
--get a proven mediocre QB that you think *might* hold the fort down until the right prospect comes along.


That's it. Proven franchise QBs are unlike any other position in that they do not get traded and are not affected by the salary cap.

The colts, bengals, and patriots would all happily take two 1st round picks and two 2nd rounders for: dwight freeney, chad johnson, and richard seymour. If you tried to make that same trade for manning, palmer, or brady they'd laugh at you.

My point is that if a team is going to get a long-term pro-bowler at the QB position they're going to have to gamble. That gamble might be giving up a high pick on a rookie, picking up an injured guy that might not make it back, or taking a shot in the dark with a late round pick. In my assessment Schaub is worth the shot.

[EDIT: darn it that's what I get for writing a long post...TexansChick stole my take ]
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Old 03-29-2007   #13
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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Originally Posted by tsip View Post
First, Schaub didn't come out of college with a 'laundry list' of mechanics that needed to be corrected in order to be effective., like Carr. Agreed
Second, unlike David, all indications are that Matt is a team player and a 'positive' in the locker room. Carr was a 'loner' and a 'me first' player.
That's been hinted at, but I wonder how much of that was Carr and how, much is the way he was treated by Dumb Capers. Regardless of effort, if you're the "teacher's pet", teammates WILL notice and take umbrage.
Third, Schaub will do the 'extra' work it takes to become a better player, including pre-game prep. Carr would not, even though he had about 6 months/yr w/family and the avg NFL career is less than 5yrs.
Schaub MAY do the "extra" work to prepare. We don't know until he strts playing. All indications are that he will, but don't just anoint him as the "Next Coming" of Joe Montana until he produces on the field.
Fourth, Schaub is a leader, type of player his team mates will rally around.
How do you know this? Unsubstantiated report of phone calls to teammates? Some teammates and socalled experts seemingly supporting him over Vick(undertones of Sage over Carr)? Here, again, people are making way too many assumptions. Until I see Schaub withstand some fierce passrushes and rally us to victory, I have no idea what kind of leader he'll be.

Fifth, Schaub isn't being thrown into a 'fire.' He's had 3 yrs to get ready for this opportunity, so that is an advantage over Carr's situation.
Schaub IS being thrown into the fire. Just like Kubiak was last year. A couple of regular season starts and being a standout preseason starter does NOT a seasoned veteran make. It's a whole different world when all the focus is on you. Any doubters that ALL the focus will be on Schaub? I guess he could ask AJ or MW what it's like. Or maybe he has Carr's # in his phone.

Hopefully, Matt is a person that can admit his mistakes/learn from them/ and minimize them from happening over and over. Too, though, he needs to shut out those mistakes when they happen and move on--be aggressive and do what it takes to win.

I say all this because 90% of what I've read on this board has been ridiculously supportive of Schaub. I'm not saying he won't be an upgrade over Carr(hard not to be), but NOBODY, I mean NOBODY knows what kind of player he will be. After Carr, does ANYONE merit automatic coronation as team savior? Not in my book. I've come to terms with Schaub deal and I want him to be the next Montana, but I have to see something on the field before I get all goo-goo eyed over his mere presence.
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Old 03-29-2007   #14
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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[/b]
I say all this because 90% of what I've read on this board has been ridiculously supportive of Schaub. I'm not saying he won't be an upgrade over Carr(hard not to be), but NOBODY, I mean NOBODY knows what kind of player he will be. After Carr, does ANYONE merit automatic coronation as team savior? Not in my book. I've come to terms with Schaub deal and I want him to be the next Montana, but I have to see something on the field before I get all goo-goo eyed over his mere presence.
Regarding #4, there has been much in the press about Schaub and his team mates--one story told of how his team mates stood and waited on the side line as they cheered him...whenever he played.

...so what do you want, give Schaub negative 'rants?' Alot of posters on this board are 'happy' to have a 'little' ray of hope that we've got a real NFL QB--after 5 yrs, it's our 'kool-aid,' so either get use to it or 'whatever.'

You approach Matt any way you want, won't bother me a bit, but I'm kinda an independent thinker...
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Old 03-29-2007   #15
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

dude you say that carr showed promise and what not, and so does schaub. Dude, are you kidding me? That can be said for any nfl qb that has been drafted or traded for, why else would they be drafted or traded for? did anyone else laugh when they read that? thats like saying " carr looked like he may have been good, and schaub looks like he may be good, so he might end up being just as bad as carr" hahaha every unproven player is a gamble bro
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Old 03-29-2007   #16
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Here here!

I say we go out and draft someone that word says has no promise and may be a bad QB.

If you are playing a dice game, you gotta roll 'em.


Exactly. Nothing is written in stone.

I remember when there was a debate about who to take for the first pick, Peyton or Ryan?
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Old 03-29-2007   #17
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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Wait.. Stop.. Do you mean to tell me no one checked to see if Schaubie has " it ". You must be able to see if he has IT or not. Oh, sorry.. I guess, I forgot ABC rule. Never mind.
Schaub isn't ABC. The Falcons knew that he'd be the most sought after free agent, so they locked him up.

I'll look for you on Carr's next board. You'll probably be the first one there.

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Old 03-29-2007   #18
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imatexanfan View Post
Okay....word is that Schaub has promise and may be a good QB. Wasn't the same thing said about Carr? If we start to see the same things happen to Schaub as happened to Carr then what? And if Carr goes on to be a pretty good QB somewhere and Schaub starts looking like Carr did as a Texan...I guess I am asking if it is a QB issue or is there more to it? O-Line maybe?

The thing is that they've tried to fix the O-Line for 5 years now. They had Boseli and were burned by that SD signing. They have drafted high with several players leading to injury or busts. I believe we will continue to try to fill the spots through the draft but a solid FA signing would go a long way to improving thats what I am looking for.

My biggest problem with the Texans is that they gave the QB starting job away with out any competition. Carr never competed for the job. If he would have had to prove his talent and work harder to earn it, we may not be having this discussion. Now we have given the starting QB to Schaub without him competing. What does that say to all the other players coming into camp?


Every position should be earned, not given away.

Do we really know he is who we think he is?

Most coaches want to see a person play for them and win the job before being named starting QB. Seriously guys, I just don't get it.
Are you still bitter that Carr was released and now a real QB is at the helm?
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Old 03-29-2007   #19
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Here here!

I say we go out and draft someone that word says has no promise and may be a bad QB.

If you are playing a dice game, you gotta roll 'em.
Probably won't even have to pay him very much. Heck, I'll do it. EVERYONE says I suck.
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Old 03-29-2007   #20
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Default Re: Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

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Originally Posted by Imatexanfan View Post
Now we have given the starting QB to Schaub without him competing. What does that say to all the other players coming into camp?


Every position should be earned, not given away.

Do we really know he is who we think he is?
The QB position is unique in that the entire offense pivots around them. That is why there is even the term "quarterback controversy" and it doesn't apply to any other position. Kubiak is smart to name him the starter and get him out on the field right off the bat leading his team so he can develop a rhythm with them and get comfortable with them.

Nobody will know who he is until the end of the season.
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