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Old 03-22-2007   #1
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Default Now we will know if its the OL or not.

I just saw a freaky stat. In 2 career starts (those are the only games that really matter), Schaub was sacked 12, count them TWELVE times.
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Old 03-22-2007   #2
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

But only 1 fumble..
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Old 03-22-2007   #3
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

He has no idea what he just stepped into.. haha
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Old 03-22-2007   #4
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

Schaub has what David wants.


Pocket presence.
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Old 03-22-2007   #5
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

No one has any idea what Schaub has..I wouldn't crown him yet...but hey...
"if you want to crown his A** then crown it"!!!!
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Old 03-22-2007   #6
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
I just saw a freaky stat. In 2 career starts (those are the only games that really matter), Schaub was sacked 12, count them TWELVE times.
That is not correct. Schaub has been sacked 12 times in his career, but 6 times in his 2 starts (3 sacks in each game). It should be noted that the Falcons have been among the league leaders (or losers) in sacks allowed over the course of Schaub's career in ATL.
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Old 03-22-2007   #7
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

I've been thinking the same thing.
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Old 03-22-2007   #8
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

I'd love to read a post on this nauseatingly repetititve topic that avoids implied or stated oversimplification. It isn't and never was an "either/or"--ALL of our sacks and losses caused by EITHER Carr sucked OR the O-line sucked. It was a lot of both as well as other problems relating to lack of talent or scheme on both sides of the ball. I know it's a lot easier to describe an either/or scenario, but I'd expect better of you in particular gtexan02.
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Old 03-22-2007   #9
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

The title of the thread should be, "Now you will realize it wasn't the O-line".
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Old 03-22-2007   #10
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
That is not correct. Schaub has been sacked 12 times in his career, but 6 times in his 2 starts (3 sacks in each game). It should be noted that the Falcons have been among the league leaders (or losers) in sacks allowed over the course of Schaub's career in ATL.
glad to see this correction.

as for the o-line vs. carr....clearly both were lacking. so, you went and addressed one of those areas. now, it's time to focus on the line.
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Old 03-22-2007   #11
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

Getting sacked a lot doesn't mean a QB can't produce. Eli Manning was sacked 8 times last fall in a game against Philadelphia, but still rallied the Giants to a 30-24 win.
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Old 03-22-2007   #12
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

O-line is still worthless. Schaub won't change it, though he may be able to deal with it better.

Glad to see the Texans would prefer to find players to deal with their problems rather than fix them...

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Old 03-22-2007   #13
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSQ View Post
O-line is still worthless. Schaub won't change it, though he may be able to deal with it better.

Glad to see the Texans would prefer to find players to deal with their problems rather than fix them...

Who says Spencer wont come back healthy? Who says we wont draft Levi Brown? Lots of time left.
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Old 03-22-2007   #14
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

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Originally Posted by Tailgate View Post
Who says Spencer wont come back healthy? Who says we wont draft Levi Brown? Lots of time left.
Who says Spencer was that good when he was healthy? Who says Levi Brown is the fix?
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Old 03-22-2007   #15
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

Firstly, sorry for posting the incorrect stats. ESPN this morning on sportscenter did a comparison of the two QBs in terms of starts, and I can quote them as saying "In Schaub's two starts he has been sacked a total of 12 times" or something to that effect. Sorry for not looking it up.

Now then, heres what I intended with this thread.
Are all Sacks the fault of the OL? No.
Are all sacks the fault of the QB? No.
What percentage of the sacks allowed are on the QB compared to what percent are on the OL speaks volumes as to:
1) A QBs pocket presence and/or scrambling ability
2) The ability of your QB to read defenses correctly
3) The ability of your WRs/TEs to get open on passing downs
4) The successfulness of your run game at preventing the blitz
5) The successfulness of your HC at calling plays that maximize your success based on the previous 4 (See Sean Payton for a great example of this).

Now I know the title of the thread was now we will know whether the OL or Carr has been to blame for the sacks over the past 5 years, but what it should have been was Now we will know how MUCH the OL should have been blamed for carr's sacks over the years.

We picked up no high profile OL FAs. Rookie OL is always a risk, no matter how high they may be drafted (even D'Brick struggled last year, and I have no doubt JT will this year). As such, we will have minimal changes in our offensive line this season.
Theoretically Carr will be mvoed to another team where he will get a chance to start or compete for the starting job.
Hopefully he'll start.
We can then watch Schaub and Carr perform as starters and compare them to the previous year's starters and their success.
If Carr continues to set records for sacks somewhere else with a supposed better OL, we can conclude that his pocket presence has been the worst member of OL all along.
If Schaub comes in and becomes Carr redux, then we'll know that our OL really is that bad.

The thing with the stats was that Schaub supposedly has great awareness in the pocket. If he has been sacked 12 (or even 6) times in 2 games as a starter, it means TO ME that ATL has an OL problem. Maybe its his lack of experience, but most likely its a combination of OL having no idea how to block for a pocket QB and coaches not knowing how to call plays for a pocket QB. So if a guy who has a lot of sacks comes in to Houston and suddenly our OL gives up half the number of sacks as last year, we will know whether or not its the OL.

Do you get what I'm saying?
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Old 03-22-2007   #16
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSQ View Post
Who says Spencer was that good when he was healthy? Who says Levi Brown is the fix?
Tell me, then, Mr. T. What do you want to do for the O-line? Personally, I thought the O-line was a little better last year. Rookies take time to develop and it seems to me that Kubiak has at least a little confidence in Winston, given that Weigart (Wiegart? Weigert? Wiegert? Man, I'm glad that guy's gone. His name is hard to spell) was released. I have no idea what's happening with Spencer. He says he'll be good to go but I would still want to draft a guy for camp competition and as a just-in-case.

Please, rather than say who isn't the solution, what is the solution?
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Old 03-22-2007   #17
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

The only way we are drafting Levi Brown is if the KNOW Spencer won't be back healthy, or there are SERIOUS doubts.

If he is showing progress in their eyes, we probably won't be taking a tackle untill the 4th or 5th round at the highest.


I don't see many O-lineman in our draft future.

1 player on the line started every game for us last year...season ends, and Kubiak says we need more playmakers....never really talked about the O-line as a problem....

David Sucks behind the line, Sage does good...

exscuses are made....oh well...

The line isn't as big of a problem as a QB that held the ball too long, had no pocket presence, couldn't read defenses and was allergic to the deep middle.
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Old 03-22-2007   #18
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadaad View Post
Please, rather than say who isn't the solution, what is the solution?
Sorry, but since OL is the bulk of what I post on, I didn't explain. Plus, I was answering directly to that post. Let me break this down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadaad View Post
Personally, I thought the O-line was a little better last year.
The line showed improvement is scant praise. To compare any line to the 2005 line is not worth discussing. Last season, the QB showed improvement at being able to get off the pass before the defense got to him. When he started to regress in this ability, he lost his game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadaad View Post
Rookies take time to develop and it seems to me that Kubiak has at least a little confidence in Winston, given that Weigart (Wiegart? Weigert? Wiegert? Man, I'm glad that guy's gone. His name is hard to spell) was released.
I lobbied on the boards for the Texans to draft Winston, knowing that he was a project rookie as opposed to an instant impact draft pick. I still think he will make a fine right tackle for the Texans and was a good pick. I've wanted Weigert gone for a while now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadaad View Post
Tell me, then, Mr. T. What do you want to do for the O-line?
Three ways you fix the o-line and sacks problem:

1. Center: Draft Kalil. Trade up in second round, if need be, but Kalil is the answer for the interior problems. Also fixes a lot of run-game problems.

2. Left Tackle: Playing GM for a day, I would have done what's needed to sign a LT who looked just as good as Spencer but has never been injured and knows the coach's scheme. Seth Wand. But we all know rather than pay vet minimum for a guy who knows the system and what's going on, we'll go find somebody new and overpay (Black).

I know most everybody on the board hates Wand. So if I'm not going that route, I look at Joe Staley in the third, possibly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadaad View Post
I have no idea what's happening with Spencer. He says he'll be good to go but I would still want to draft a guy for camp competition and as a just-in-case.
Left Tackle is a hard question. The Texans really shot themselves on the foot on this one (unfortunately, it reminds me too much of last year's fiasco at running back - could it be that we see the Texans rotating left tackles like they did RBs?), with their only option to be hope that Spencer comes back and performs much better, or that Black is the answer. Personally, I think neither are.

3. Shotgun formation. Carr knew it well at Fresno State, and it would give him that extra second or two to get off a pass or (more likely) dodge somebody coming in off the tackles. I know it's a simple solution and doesn't involve spending millions of dollars on a shiny new penny, but I think it will work.

By the way, it's good to see another pilgarlic on the boards, though I for one am more by design.
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Old 03-22-2007   #19
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

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Now we will know if its the OL or not.
That was kind-of answered for ME last year when Sage stepped in. To me it seemed the whole OL stepped up. It was slightly more evidence that the team didn't have a lot of respect for Carr. And when Sage came in it was as if the guys said "OK, lets get going now."

I sense the OL will want to prove something this next season. Like saying "it wasn't all us people."
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Old 03-22-2007   #20
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Default Re: Now we will know if its the OL or not.

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Now I know the title of the thread was now we will know whether the OL or Carr has been to blame for the sacks over the past 5 years, but what it should have been was Now we will know how MUCH the OL should have been blamed for carr's sacks over the years.

We picked up no high profile OL FAs. Rookie OL is always a risk, no matter how high they may be drafted (even D'Brick struggled last year, and I have no doubt JT will this year). As such, we will have minimal changes in our offensive line this season.
Theoretically Carr will be mvoed to another team where he will get a chance to start or compete for the starting job.
Hopefully he'll start.
We can then watch Schaub and Carr perform as starters and compare them to the previous year's starters and their success.
If Carr continues to set records for sacks somewhere else with a supposed better OL, we can conclude that his pocket presence has been the worst member of OL all along.
If Schaub comes in and becomes Carr redux, then we'll know that our OL really is that bad.

The thing with the stats was that Schaub supposedly has great awareness in the pocket. If he has been sacked 12 (or even 6) times in 2 games as a starter, it means TO ME that ATL has an OL problem. Maybe its his lack of experience, but most likely its a combination of OL having no idea how to block for a pocket QB and coaches not knowing how to call plays for a pocket QB. So if a guy who has a lot of sacks comes in to Houston and suddenly our OL gives up half the number of sacks as last year, we will know whether or not its the OL.

Do you get what I'm saying?
Understand and I agree, but again, it's important to analyze within context to the extent possible. Your scenario of recording "half the sacks" next year could also be due to the return of Spencer, the increased cohesion of our O-line, our offensive playcalling, the establishment of Green as a run threat or backfield receiver, etc. etc., rather than just ABC.

I think you and many other posters on this board are capable of analyzing things in just such a context and obviously given so many variables we will always be able to reach slightly different conclusions. I just wanted to point out that many people oversimplify the question and the answer.

I'm also troubled by Schaub "supposedly having great awareness in the pocket," again because we just don't have the luxury of a lot of snaps to study, but here again I am willing to adopt a wait and see approach.
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