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Old 03-20-2007   #1
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Default Troubles with "Tampa 2"

From March, 2006:

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Carr is being asked to do less on the field than in the previous system. At one point last season, one NFL talent evaluator speculated Carr was being asked to make more on-the-field reads than most other NFL quarterbacks.

The West Coast offense he's now learning will be simpler in that he'll be asked to drop back quickly and run through his checklist of places he can throw the ball.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...s/3898813.html

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The Cover 2 stops a West coast offense extremely well, for a variety of reasons. In a true Cover 2, defensive linemen provide all the pressure. Blitzing should be unnecessary. Defensive lineman line up in gaps to slow the run, and make it more difficult for holes to open up. If the front 4 play their gaps correctly, they’ll clog up the running lanes and force the running backs to run outside, where the corners, linebackers, and safeties (the overall speed of the team) can all help.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ram...hp?p=167&cat=1


Can we say that this is possibly reflective to the breakdown of Carr in week 2 against the Colts? The dink and dunk offense didn't stand a chance against this style defense:

Quote:
While the normal Cover 2 has each Linebacker or Cornerback covering about 1/5th the width of the safeties, who each cover half, the Tampa 2 pulls the middle linebacker into deep zone coverage as well, similiar to a Cover 3. What this does is allows the safeties to have to cover less ground, so they can cover the traditional soft zone past the corners more effectively. Since the middle linebacker drops into coverage to watch the center of the field, the four men underneath each cover about 25% the width of the field each.
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Old 03-20-2007   #2
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

The Bum beat the Cover 2 in the 70's with 2 TEs.

and with Stabler as the QB ( a short pass expert )
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Last edited by TwinSisters; 03-20-2007 at 06:52 PM. Reason: adding Stabler
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Old 03-20-2007   #3
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

not sure what your trying to get out with this thread...are you trying to give reasons why carr failed or are you giving examples of how the coaches failed?

the way i see it is this...carr's short comings as the QB for this team have had less to do with his decisions throwing...and more with his indecisions on throwing the ball...too many times (which i can't blame him here) has he been caught looking for the pass rush rather than the passing lanes...that's why he's getting sacked so much when the hot-route maybe open
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Old 03-20-2007   #4
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

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Originally Posted by keyfro View Post
not sure what your trying to get out with this thread...are you trying to give reasons why carr failed or are you giving examples of how the coaches failed?
Example of both. With Carr resulting to the dink and dunk offense, short passes were a must...which fit right into the chemistry of making the Tampa 2 work extremely well against our offense.

Now with Dayne being able to run against the Colts up the middle in the second game, eliminated their stronghold on the edges, and brought the middle linebacker from dropping back up front again.

Basically this looks like a failure from Carr to the coaching staff/previous coaching staff. They finally got it right the second time.
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Old 03-20-2007   #5
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

ah gotcha
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Old 03-20-2007   #6
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

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Originally Posted by TEXANS84 View Post
Example of both. With Carr resulting to the dink and dunk offense, short passes were a must...which fit right into the chemistry of making the Tampa 2 work extremely well against our offense.

Now with Dayne being able to run against the Colts up the middle in the second game, eliminated their stronghold on the edges, and brought the middle linebacker from dropping back up front again.

Basically this looks like a failure from Carr to the coaching staff/previous coaching staff. They finally got it right the second time.
the tampa2 is designed to make you take short passes if you aren't talented enough to blast it in the seams and throw with accuracy in the middle of the field, Carr has struggled with the cover2 and all the associated hybrids of this defense from day one and not just this year when we went to a wco. This team has run on the Colts many times over the years but has never ripped it apart in the air....hence the cover carr offense.
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Old 03-20-2007   #7
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

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Originally Posted by TEXANS84 View Post
Example of both. With Carr resulting to the dink and dunk offense, short passes were a must...which fit right into the chemistry of making the Tampa 2 work extremely well against our offense.

Now with Dayne being able to run against the Colts up the middle in the second game, eliminated their stronghold on the edges, and brought the middle linebacker from dropping back up front again.

Basically this looks like a failure from Carr to the coaching staff/previous coaching staff. They finally got it right the second time.
hmmmmmm, this doesn't sound right to me. both the colts and Da Bears run the Tampa 2. From what I remember of the SB, Peyton ate of Da Bears' defense with the underneath routes. It seems as if the dink and dunks would be the best to use against the Tampa 2.
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Old 03-20-2007   #8
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

whatever was going on during the regular season, sure didn't translate in to the post season for the Colts Cover 2 and the Bears Cover 2

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NF...1=4&_1:col_1=4

for relatively equal sample sizes

Colts
203 plays that resulted in giving up 238.5 yards a game

Bears
212 plays that resulted in giving up 370.3 yards a game

---
NE
208 plays that resulted in giving up 384.7 yards a game
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Old 03-20-2007   #9
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"



Weaknesses in the Tampa 2, looks to be more middle passes.
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Old 03-20-2007   #10
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

Except that Urlacher was a former Safety and has some pretty good cover speed for a Middle Linebacker. I saw Peyton improvise and burn the Bears only a couple of times during the Super Bowl. This is what Carr lacks, time to improvise and not duck and run. The fault lies with the offensive line not giving him enough time to let players make plays and on Carr from not trusting his line and sprinting out of trouble too soon.
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Old 03-20-2007   #11
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

The Tampa 2, like all defenses, has weaknesses. Its up to the coaches and the QB to exploit those weaknesses. To say the only trouble Carr has was with the Tampa 2 is not really accurate. Carr had trouble with all the defenses last year.

DC has been pounded on sooooo much by his coaches that I doubt he knows which way is up anymore. While I am one of the biggest Carr hates on this board, I will readily acknowledge the huge short comings of the coaches to teach David proper technique and the FO's screw ups and short comings in tallent. How many sacks is David up to now? The David Carr you saw on the field last year was not the same person who came into this league 5 years ago. And, its a shame. In many ways, David was probably a better QB back then.
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Old 03-20-2007   #12
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

There is an interview floating around that has Carr talking about how they had trouble breaking the Cover 2. I think he mentioned that all he could get was the underneath routes. ( I think )

It might be three years old now? It gets a little hazy sometimes

There are also two interviews with Parcells and Vermeil talking about attacking the middle linebacker with a TE/Slot WR or two TEs. The idea is still the same... flooding towards that soft spot in the center and hoping to break into a foot race with the Safties.
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Old 03-20-2007   #13
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

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Originally Posted by joedinkle View Post
hmmmmmm, this doesn't sound right to me. both the colts and Da Bears run the Tampa 2. From what I remember of the SB, Peyton ate of Da Bears' defense with the underneath routes. It seems as if the dink and dunks would be the best to use against the Tampa 2.
Teams don't always run the cover 2 defense...even if that is their base defense. I'd imagine an offense like the Colts would tear a cover 2 defense up deep if they played it all game. You've only got 2 guys deep and that means they have halves. That is why the middle of the field is the main cover 2 weakness. You can spread those safeties to the sidelines with deep routes and burn the defense down the middle. I doubt the bears played the superbowl in cover 2 for more than 50% of the time.
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Old 03-20-2007   #14
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

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Teams don't always run the cover 2 defense...even if that is their base defense. I'd imagine an offense like the Colts would tear a cover 2 defense up deep if they played it all game. You've only got 2 guys deep and that means they have halves. That is why the middle of the field is the main cover 2 weakness. You can spread those safeties to the sidelines with deep routes and burn the defense down the middle. I doubt the bears played the superbowl in cover 2 for more than 50% of the time.
I'd like to see Houston's CBs play more man to man coverages.

Richard Smith called a soft Cover 2 late in the Buffalo game! Does he think that QBs don't look down the MIDDLE of the field???
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Old 03-20-2007   #15
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

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I'd like to see Houston's CBs play more man to man coverages.

Richard Smith called a soft Cover 2 late in the Buffalo game! Does he think that QBs don't look down the MIDDLE of the field???
i was thinking the same thing last season...i also hoping he would finally call down to the CB's and tell them to be in more of a press coverage...bump the recievers at the line...most of the time both of them were atleast 5 yds away from the wide out...but then again we don't have the FS to keep deep contain on the play so he couldn't or wouldn't take that chance by having them in bump coverage...but even with him being cautious in defensive calls we still gave up too many big plays
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Old 03-21-2007   #16
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

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the tampa2 is designed to make you take short passes if you aren't talented enough to blast it in the seams and throw with accuracy in the middle of the field, Carr has struggled with the cover2 and all the associated hybrids of this defense from day one and not just this year when we went to a wco. This team has run on the Colts many times over the years but has never ripped it apart in the air....hence the cover carr offense.
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Weaknesses in the Tampa 2, looks to be more middle passes.
Nice thread, good info. In the SB Clark as well as others had some nice grabs over the middle. Proving both of y'alls points. There were several passes under 10 yards. Here's a couple plays thrown a little deeper from the Bowl.

Quote:
3-10-IND47 (6:58) (No Huddle, Shotgun) P.Manning pass deep middle to R.Wayne for 53 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
Quote:
1-10-CHI36 (8:43) P.Manning pass deep middle to D.Clark to CHI 19 for 17 yards (D.Manning).
http://www.superbowl.com/gamecenter/...070204_IND@CHI
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Old 03-21-2007   #17
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Default Re: Troubles with "Tampa 2"

http://www.superbowl.com/video

That Reggie Wayne pass is on the Highlight reel.

Colts - Shotgun One back, TE and slot WR
Bears - Six on the line, with two LBs falling into coverage ( I think ? )
Not sure if you can call this a Cover 2

Colts - flood the field with 4 routes ( and delay the RB for a release )
The video is lost on the routes.

Wayne shakes his DB somehow and you can't see on the video what happens.
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