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Old 03-19-2007   #1
NederlandTexan
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Default Pass rush or coverage?

Seems like most folks are leaning one way or the other. Just my opinion, but I think a better pass rush would make the defense stronger.
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Old 03-19-2007   #2
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

I agree that we need more pressure, but we don't have the talent in the backfield regardless of the route. Daunta is a #2 on almost every other team in the league, and was beat often last year. Daunta needs to cover teams #1 instead of only 1 side. He needs to be able to man up on a CJ or a Marvin, we don't need Daunta on a slot guy or the #2. If he wants to prove he deserves the spot that everyone is handing him, he needs to call out the #1 on the other team.
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Old 03-19-2007   #3
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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Originally Posted by NederlandTexan View Post
Seems like most folks are leaning one way or the other. Just my opinion, but I think a better pass rush would make the defense stronger.
Absolutely.... But we really need to get our LBs to participate in the pass coverage. Our LBs didn't do well early in the season covering the underneath routes.

I need to get the numbers, but I know our defense played much better at the end of the year, than we did at the beginning. Even against the Patriots, we didn't do as bad as it looked like we did. 4 turnovers in the first half can really make you look bad, and put a lot of pressure on the defense.

I'm not saying that we are set, or overflowing with Talent. But I think we have enough starters, that Kubiak can start developing players like they did in Denver, and not have to sacrifice a winning season to do it.
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Old 03-19-2007   #4
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

I think that rebuilding this team is going to take time, and i like the steps they are taking.

I definitly think we need to have a better pass rush. However I'm leaning towards coverage at this point in the game for a number of reasons.

I break the defense into four parts not three. we have the DL, LB, CB, and S instead of secondary..i look at it as cb and safeties.

We have MArio, demeco, dunta, manning three of them but don't have a guy for FS/SS. That's why i'm for the landry pick. I would like us to have 4 young guys leading these four 'sections' of the D. and build the rest of the D around them....after getting these 4 guys in place...complimenting them with others.

Our secondary isn't good after dunta. If we could get our secondary a little more respectible, fiesty, and hungry...that will give our DL just that 1 extra second to get to the QB or invade his space..which is VERY valuable. DL pressure helps the Sec. and the Secondary helps the DL...it's a two way street.

At this point in the game...where our team is, I think adding another deminsion in the secondary (Landry) would be more valuable than adding another along the DL (anderson or okoye). While that would really help our DL, our secondary can still easily be picked apart. I think Landry (coverage) would be more effective for the next season and an integral part of building all aspects of our Defense somewhat evenly.

Peyton and Vince only need 2 seconds after the snap to find an open receiver...If they get more time than that...they will have two options downfield for an instant 1st down..wide open. Having better coverage would limit those big plays and 1st downs and cause our DL and LB to get after the QB. I think if the DL applied more pressure...they could still pick up their receiver fairly easily.

Sorry for repeating myself and being redundant a few times...lol

Peterson or Landry baby!!
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Old 03-19-2007   #5
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

You're right, we don't have the talent in the secondary, that's why it runs me hot to watch third and longs turn into first downs against us. But, pressuring the QB with our front four is something we rarely accomplish and is something we must get better at doing. I wouldn't dislike the Landry pick, but would love for Gaines Adams to fall to eight.
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Old 03-19-2007   #6
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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Originally Posted by NederlandTexan View Post
You're right, we don't have the talent in the secondary, that's why it runs me hot to watch third and longs turn into first downs against us. But, pressuring the QB with our front four is something we rarely accomplish and is something we must get better at doing.
I hate those 3rd and longs.

There's a legit arguement for DL or Secondary...that's the beauty of being a bad team.

I'd like to see us develop our Defense somewhat evenly.
1. Dunta CB
2. T.Johnson (lol) DT
3. Mario DE and Demeco LB
4. hopefully Landry FS

then next season we can do something like...
5. DT/CB
6. DE/LB

instead of ...
Babin, Johnson, Williams, (okoye/anderson/branch/adams), and another DL next season.
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Old 03-19-2007   #7
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NederlandTexan View Post
You're right, we don't have the talent in the secondary, that's why it runs me hot to watch third and longs turn into first downs against us. But, pressuring the QB with our front four is something we rarely accomplish and is something we must get better at doing. I wouldn't dislike the Landry pick, but would love for Gaines Adams to fall to eight.
I would actually debate Anderson over Adams. Anderson is just as good a pass rushing DE, but is 285 and can play the run as well. Adams is good against the run, but stands out with his QB pressure.
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Old 03-20-2007   #8
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I hate those 3rd and longs.

There's a legit arguement for DL or Secondary...that's the beauty of being a bad team.

I'd like to see us develop our Defense somewhat evenly.
1. Dunta CB
2. T.Johnson (lol) DT
3. Mario DE and Demeco LB
4. hopefully Landry FS

then next season we can do something like...
5. DT/CB
6. DE/LB

instead of ...
Babin, Johnson, Williams, (okoye/anderson/branch/adams), and another DL next season.
I Still believe those third & longs were given up by the poor coverage of the LBs....

I don't have a problem adding more talent to the Secondary... I''m fine with taking Landry at 8... But I think getting our LBs to play better would help our defense more than adding Landry to the secondary.

I just don't think there is that big a difference between the best safeties in the league, and the avg safeties.
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Old 03-20-2007   #9
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

to be honest the two are inter-twined...the better the pass coverage gets naturally the better the pass rushers should seem because the QB should be holding the ball longer...just like the faster the pass rush is to getting to the QB the better the pass coverage will be due to less covering time and more hurried throws

when going into this offseason we needed to improve both...by getting the LB's in FA that we have we've helped out the pass coverage by getting LB's who can better handle the underneath stuff with ryans and greenwood...but we have not added another pass rusher or helped the pass coverage more by adding a DB or two

this is where i think we'll focus the draft on...i've made in no secret that i believe laron landry should be our number 1 guy...and in round two i see a solid group of guys we could select at our pick those being:

ryan kalil
joe staley
aaron ross (fingers crossed)
marcus mccauley

now if somehow none of those guys are available by the time we pick i suggest a trade down within the 2nd round for one of the following guys:

tim crowder
jason hill
andrae allison
victor abiamiri
eric wright
daymeion hughes

but i guess that depends on whether or not rick smith wants the front of this draft to be defensive...he may choose to go offense if he goes defense with the first pick and vis versa if offense is choosen with the first pick
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Old 03-20-2007   #10
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

I think that with a healthy Mario and some consistently healthy DT's, plus Babin getting to play a whole season, our pass rush will be better; I can see a lot of our improvement along the DL. But I don't see too much of a higher ceiling in the secondary; Earl is decent at SS, but CC needs to go (Hello, Laron Landry!) and Faggins is a good nickel, but not a good #2 (notice how both of Lee Evans' 83-yard TD's were against both Faggins and CC). I also agree that D-Rob, as our #1 corner, needs to be lined up against our opponent's #1 all game, instead of being on one side of the field; this only allows the opposition to exploit our weaknesses.
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Old 03-20-2007   #11
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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I can see a lot of our improvement along the DL. But I don't see too much of a higher ceiling in the secondary; Earl is decent at SS, but CC needs to go (Hello, Laron Landry!) and Faggins is a good nickel, but not a good #2
Agreed. Cornerback should be consideration with the second pick, where a quality player should be available in a deep class. ( Tanard Jackson, Josh Wilson, Eric Wright )
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Old 03-20-2007   #12
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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Originally Posted by Zagen30 View Post
Earl is decent at SS, but CC needs to go (Hello, Laron Landry!) and Faggins is a good nickel, but not a good #2 (notice how both of Lee Evans' 83-yard TD's were against both Faggins and CC). I also agree that D-Rob, as our #1 corner, needs to be lined up against our opponent's #1 all game, instead of being on one side of the field; this only allows the opposition to exploit our weaknesses.
CC wasn't on either of those plays. He was actually rushing the QB from the left on the first one(a safety blitz), and wasn't even on the field(that was Simmons) on the second one.

Faggins got beat on those two plays, but played well the rest of the game. Against Tennessee, it was Dunta giving up the big plays to Vince & Bennette, not Faggins. I can probably recall two plays where Dunta got his hands on a ball all year.

He's a sure tackler, he plays much bigger than he is, & I believe defenses run the ball away from him...... but he's not a very good corner, at least he wasn't in '06.
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Old 03-20-2007   #13
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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Originally Posted by NederlandTexan View Post
Seems like most folks are leaning one way or the other. Just my opinion, but I think a better pass rush would make the defense stronger.
I think that we gave up to many runs in the middle thank goodness demeco was there to stop them after about 5 yds. My point is we need a big body DT to clog the middle of the line. I would like to see Branch fall to the 2 or 3 round and pick him up then,I don't think he is worth #8.
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Old 03-20-2007   #14
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Post Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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Absolutely.... But we really need to get our LBs to participate in the pass coverage. Our LBs didn't do well early in the season covering the underneath routes.

I need to get the numbers, but I know our defense played much better at the end of the year, than we did at the beginning. Even against the Patriots, we didn't do as bad as it looked like we did. 4 turnovers in the first half can really make you look bad, and put a lot of pressure on the defense.

I'm not saying that we are set, or overflowing with Talent. But I think we have enough starters, that Kubiak can start developing players like they did in Denver, and not have to sacrifice a winning season to do it.
Dude, I'm no english major, but maybe I can help you alittle with your punctuation.

Absolutely, but we need to get our LB's to participate in the pass coverage. Our LB's didn't do well early in the season covering the underneath routes. I need to get the numbers, but I know our defense played much better at the end of the year than they did at the beginning. Even against the Patriots we didn't do as bad as it looked like we did. Four turnovers in the first half can really make a team look bad and put a lot of pressure on the defense. I'm not saying that we are set or overflowing with talent, but I think we have enough starters that Kubiak can start developing players like they did in Denver and not have to sacrifice a winning season to do it.


Sorry, not trying to be rude, but only trying to help.
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Old 03-20-2007   #15
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

Coverage will always look bad until pass-rush is established.
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Old 03-20-2007   #16
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

If Anderson or Adams is available when we're picking I'd have to go DE. A 1st round D-line pick for us is more redundant than Detroit picking WR, but I think we start with a clean slate with Rick Smith and Kubiak. And I couldn't, can't, and won't complain if we pick Anderson, Adams, or Okoye this year.

This draft is pretty deep in secondary prospects and with our second rounder we could fill a void at FS with Meriweather or CB with McCauley. I've also heard Meriweather could play CB at the next level but there's a few sleeper CBs we could go after.

1. Anderson/Adams DE / Okoye DT is more likely to be available
2. Meriweather FS
3. Rufus Alexander LB
4. Travarous Bain CB
5. David Ball WR
6. Mario Henderson LT
7. Justin Medlock K

I think that'd put us in good shape.

Last edited by rollinstone18; 03-20-2007 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 03-20-2007   #17
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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Coverage will always look bad until pass-rush is established.
Nice post!
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Old 03-20-2007   #18
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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I think that we gave up to many runs in the middle thank goodness demeco was there to stop them after about 5 yds. My point is we need a big body DT to clog the middle of the line. I would like to see Branch fall to the 2 or 3 round and pick him up then,I don't think he is worth #8.
Branch in the 2nd, let alone the 3rd, is a pipe dream. The guy is going top 15 in the 1st.
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Old 03-20-2007   #19
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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Branch in the 2nd, let alone the 3rd, is a pipe dream. The guy is going top 15 in the 1st.
He will probally go that early, and will be one of the first to be declared a bust. I called it a long time ago, and haven't thought differently since. The guy is a second round talent at best.
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Old 03-21-2007   #20
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Default Re: Pass rush or coverage?

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I Still believe those third & longs were given up by the poor coverage of the LBs....

I don't have a problem adding more talent to the Secondary... I''m fine with taking Landry at 8... But I think getting our LBs to play better would help our defense more than adding Landry to the secondary.

I just don't think there is that big a difference between the best safeties in the league, and the avg safeties.
Yea, our LB's do need to do a lot better in pass coverage....but for this thread..I don't think there is a LB worthy of the 8th pick. I love me some Patrick Willis but there are plenty of other positions i'd pick over LB at 8. Willis would be my only option this high and he isn't superb in coverage. It's actually been one of his con's..but i think is better than he's getting credit for. Esp. w/ us getting 2 FA LB's..it's not quite the need it was and there will be a better pick available.

How do you think the additions of Clark and Barber will help our LB's...as far as coverage goes?
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