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Old 03-19-2007   #1
Dallas_Texan
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Default 2007 line-up if we trade up

I know it's a pipe-dream, but can you imagine if we could trade Babin, Greenwood, and Sage with a 4th, and a 2008 2nd. to move up in the draft a little. If so, imagine the Texans with CJ!!!!!!!!

You have receivers of Johnson and Johnson, Owen Daniels at TE, and get a decent running back in the second, and a FS in the third. Suddenly you have one impressive fricking offense!

QB - Carr
WR1 - Andre Johnson
WR2 - Calvin Johnson
RB - Ahman Green
RB2 - Michael Bush
FB - Vonta Leach
TE - Owen Daniels
LT - Spencer
LG - Pitts
C - Flanagan
RG - Winston
RT - Black

Defense

DE - Mario Williams
DT - TJ
DT - Znunignangionas
DE - Weaver
LB - DEMECO
LB - Clark
LB - Barber
SS - Earl
FS - Merriweather (or best FS)
CB - D-Rob
CB2 - Faggins

I think with an improved LB corp, putting added pressure on the QB, and Mario playing better, and a FS that's actually good in coverage, Faggins will actually be a decent CB2.

In 2008 we get a CB in the first, and a DT in the second, and a C in FA.
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Old 03-19-2007   #2
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

I like your line up but unfortunately i will not participate...lol

i don't think that trade happens. we will not have all 1st day picks from this year...and michael bush and brandon meriweather are both late 1st/early 2nd rd choices. bush's bum leg and meriweather character concerns are the only reason they would last till mid 2nd at the lates imo.

if we move up to take CJ it'd have to be to 2 or 3. I'd take CJ over any other player in that situation. we would probably have to get rid of our 2nd or 3rd rounder and a 1st rounder next year. it costs way too much to move up and we can't afford to...we will not trade up.

With that said...I do like our offense you have a lot!
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Old 03-19-2007   #3
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas_Texan View Post
I know it's a pipe-dream, but can you imagine if we could trade Babin, Greenwood, and Sage with a 4th, and a 2008 2nd. to move up in the draft a little. If so, imagine the Texans with CJ!!!!!!!!

You have receivers of Johnson and Johnson, Owen Daniels at TE, and get a decent running back in the second, and a FS in the third. Suddenly you have one impressive fricking offense!

QB - Carr
WR1 - Andre Johnson
WR2 - Calvin Johnson
RB - Ahman Green
RB2 - Michael Bush
FB - Vonta Leach
TE - Owen Daniels
LT - Spencer
LG - Pitts
C - Flanagan
RG - Winston
RT - Black

Defense

DE - Mario Williams
DT - TJ
DT - Znunignangionas
DE - Weaver
LB - DEMECO
LB - Clark
LB - Barber
SS - Earl
FS - Merriweather (or best FS)
CB - D-Rob
CB2 - Faggins

I think with an improved LB corp, putting added pressure on the QB, and Mario playing better, and a FS that's actually good in coverage, Faggins will actually be a decent CB2.

In 2008 we get a CB in the first, and a DT in the second, and a C in FA.
How are you going to get a DT in the 2nd if you trade that pick away and why would you want to trade away 3 players and 2 furure picks for 1 guy. That is a 4 player swing for a team with 1000 holes. Thus creating even more holes in the process. That would be a terrible idea. NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-19-2007   #4
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrewster2000 View Post
How are you going to get a DT in the 2nd if you trade that pick away and why would you want to trade away 3 players and 2 furure picks for 1 guy. That is a 4 player swing for a team with 1000 holes. Thus creating even more holes in the process. That would be a terrible idea. NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
B/c trading those players are no longer needed on our roster, and will free up cap space, and trading CJ (and maybe a future 3rd) for a future 2nd and current 4th is more than worth it.

How about:
3rd overall 2007

for

8th overall 2007
3rd rounder 2008

Cut: Babin.
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Old 03-19-2007   #5
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

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Originally Posted by Dallas_Texan View Post
I know it's a pipe-dream
Yes it is...keep smoking buddy!
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Old 03-19-2007   #6
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas_Texan View Post

How about:
3rd overall 2007

for

8th overall 2007
3rd rounder 2008

Cut: Babin.
To get to the 3rd overall pick....we would probably have to give up our 1st and 2nd rders this year and a 2nd rounder next year...maybe more

Trading our 1st in '07 and 3rd in '08 would get us to MAYBE the 6th overall pick (washington...and probably only to Minnesota at 7). Getting up to the top 3 picks is a very big cost.

when coming up with trades...reverse your thinking. if we had the 3rd overall would you give it up for a 1st this year and 3rd next? or would you want babin, sage, greenwood...etc? Babin is pretty much a bust, sage has never been a starter, and greenwood is overpaid....i don't think any team would do this to move down that far...
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Old 03-19-2007   #7
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I like your line up but unfortunately i will not participate...lol

i don't think that trade happens. we will not have all 1st day picks from this year...and michael bush and brandon meriweather are both late 1st/early 2nd rd choices. bush's bum leg and meriweather character concerns are the only reason they would last till mid 2nd at the lates imo.

if we move up to take CJ it'd have to be to 2 or 3. I'd take CJ over any other player in that situation. we would probably have to get rid of our 2nd or 3rd rounder and a 1st rounder next year. it costs way too much to move up and we can't afford to...we will not trade up.

With that said...I do like our offense you have a lot!
Just going on scouting report, Michael Bush

Quote:
5. Michael Bush, Louisville

Positives: Size (6-1-plus, 243 pounds) and strength ... Follows blockers well. ůSurprising quickness and agility for his size ... Pass-protection.

Negatives: Durability; still rehabilitating a broken leg suffered during Louisville's '06 season-opener ... Upright running style exposes him to too much contact ... Too much hesitation when he doesn't find an immediate opening ... Limited big-play ability.
main thing is his broken leg.wouldn't/couldn't that push him back? to maybe 3rd round? just curious on if teams would be hesitant to take him
or is he that good ala willie mcgahee style?
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Old 03-19-2007   #8
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
Just going on scouting report, Michael Bush



main thing is his broken leg.wouldn't/couldn't that push him back? to maybe 3rd round? just curious on if teams would be hesitant to take him
or is he that good ala willie mcgahee style?
Yea I think the leg is the only thing that worries people. A broken leg could be a big problem and it scares me....he's the kinda guy you might take that chance on though...if it heals fine..the guy is going to be such a steal. Doubt he lasts to the 3rd round because some team is going to take him even if he has to sit for a while...NYG could be a good one for him...sitting behind jacobs for a while.

I really would like to see him run first...any idea of how he's healing??
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Old 03-19-2007   #9
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
Just going on scouting report, Michael Bush



main thing is his broken leg.wouldn't/couldn't that push him back? to maybe 3rd round? just curious on if teams would be hesitant to take him
or is he that good ala willie mcgahee style?
Wouldn't the rest of the scouting report keep him from going the 1st day? Magahee went from top 2 to mid 20's because of a DESTROYED knee. This guy just doesn't seem like he's going til day 2. If he does go day 1, I hope we passed on him.
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Old 03-19-2007   #10
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Wouldn't the rest of the scouting report keep him from going the 1st day? Magahee went from top 2 to mid 20's because of a DESTROYED knee. This guy just doesn't seem like he's going til day 2. If he does go day 1, I hope we passed on him.
So you think Michael Bush isn't going to get drafted until the 4th round or further?
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Old 03-19-2007   #11
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
So you think Michael Bush isn't going to get drafted until the 4th round or further?
I dunno. I really don't know a lot about him. I was merely commenting on the entire scouting report that was posted. There were a lot of negatives that would make me pause, such as durability concerns, running style, limited big play potential. Based on that would YOU draft him on the 1st day? Don't be a homer when you answer
Try to be objective and think of how he would perform with the big boys.
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Old 03-20-2007   #12
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

Draft Value Chart:

http://www.gbnreport.com/tradevaluetable.html

#3 Pick Value: 2200
#8 Pick Value: 1400

Difference? 800 Points

Value of the 8th pick in the 2nd round: 510
Value of the 8th pick in the 3rd round: 230

Total value of 1st+2nd+3rd round picks of the Texans: 2140

STILL not enough to get to 3 to nab Calvin.

It'll take a Ricky Williams type entire draft deal to get Calvin to the Texans. Forget about it.

Also, re: Michael Bush, most mock draft sites have him going somewhere in the second round. Injury concerns are there, but if not for injuries, he's in the discussion with Lynch and AD as the top back in the draft.
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Old 03-20-2007   #13
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

Also, just a thought. Doesn't all of the Calvin talk this year remind anyone of the Reggie Bush talk last year? Once in a life-time player, future this and future that. Seriously, every draft has someone that is hyped like this, and every year fans get caught up in it.

CJ is a great college WR. He's got great size and speed, but without a decent QB throwing him the ball, going against better CB's in the NFL, he could be just average. He might be great too, but to start saying he's TO/Moss combined with Harrison is WAAAYYY premature.
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Old 03-20-2007   #14
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas_Texan View Post
I know it's a pipe-dream, but can you imagine if we could trade Babin, Greenwood, and Sage with a 4th, and a 2008 2nd. to move up in the draft a little. If so, imagine the Texans with CJ!!!!!!!!

You have receivers of Johnson and Johnson, Owen Daniels at TE, and get a decent running back in the second, and a FS in the third. Suddenly you have one impressive fricking offense!

QB - Carr
WR1 - Andre Johnson
WR2 - Calvin Johnson
RB - Ahman Green
RB2 - Michael Bush
FB - Vonta Leach
TE - Owen Daniels
LT - Spencer
LG - Pitts
C - Flanagan
RG - Winston
RT - Black

Defense

DE - Mario Williams
DT - TJ
DT - Znunignangionas
DE - Weaver
LB - DEMECO
LB - Clark
LB - Barber
SS - Earl
FS - Merriweather (or best FS)
CB - D-Rob
CB2 - Faggins

I think with an improved LB corp, putting added pressure on the QB, and Mario playing better, and a FS that's actually good in coverage, Faggins will actually be a decent CB2.

In 2008 we get a CB in the first, and a DT in the second, and a C in FA.
carr sucks. why would you still want him on your team? do you even watch the games in Dallas? he has sucked, he sucks, and will always suck.
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Old 03-20-2007   #15
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

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Originally Posted by supertruck97 View Post
Also, just a thought. Doesn't all of the Calvin talk this year remind anyone of the Reggie Bush talk last year? Once in a life-time player, future this and future that. Seriously, every draft has someone that is hyped like this, and every year fans get caught up in it.
Every single year there is some player, usually a running back, WR, OT, or QB that is said to be a "Once in a life time player". This year there is Joe Thomas, AD, and CJ. All 3 are said to be once in a lifetime players. Last year there was D'Brick, Bush, Young, and Mario. Please stop calling these guys "Once in a lifetime players". It is said about 3-4 players every year.
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Old 03-20-2007   #16
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

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Originally Posted by supertruck97 View Post
CJ is a great college WR. He's got great size and speed, but without a decent QB throwing him the ball, going against better CB's in the NFL, he could be just average. He might be great too, but to start saying he's TO/Moss combined with Harrison is WAAAYYY premature.
Calvin had Reggie Ball throwing to him who is, for lack of better words, a pretty poor quarterback. If CJ would have gone to a better program he probably would have set all sorts of receiving records...esp. TD's.

I understand your point in that there are no sure things and we can't write anyone into the hall of fame just yet..lol

I think Calvin is just a great prospect in general, size, speed, routes, blocking, smart, team oriented. I look forward to following his career.
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Old 03-20-2007   #17
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

I've given Carr all the benefit of the doubt that I can, but NO WAY do I release Sage at this point. Sage has at least looked 'comfortable' in the offense (albeit not much time against 1st-stringers) and we really don't have another backup we can say that about.

They say walk before you run...I say run before you pass. I want to see the vaunted zone-blocking scheme that I expected last year begin to bear a little fruit before I worry about adding another WR. You need look no further that Detroit for an example.

I'd rather make this kinda deal for AP. He's shown that he can handle >20 touches a game and is the kind of back that reminds Houstonians of their lost Tyler Rose.
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Old 03-20-2007   #18
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

2006 Game Log Receiving Rushing Fumbles
DATE OPP RESULT REC YDS AVG LNG TD ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
9/2 Notre Dame L 14-10 7 111 15.9 45 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
9/9 Samford W 38-6 4 26 6.5 11 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
9/16 Troy W 35-20 2 9 4.5 11 0 1 21 21.0 21 0 0 0
9/21 Virginia W 24-7 6 165 27.5 66 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
9/30 @Virginia Tech W 38-27 6 115 19.2 53 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
10/7 Maryland W 27-23 10 133 13.3 23 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
10/21 @Clemson L 31-7 0 0 0.0 0 0 1 -4 -4.0 0 0 0 0
10/28 Miami (FL) W 30-23 5 68 13.6 43 1 1 -2 -2.0 0 0 0 0
11/4 @North Carolina State W 31-23 9 168 18.7 43 2 1 8 8.0 8 0 0 0
11/11 @North Carolina W 7-0 3 13 4.3 18 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
11/18 Duke W 49-21 5 78 15.6 46 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
11/25 @Georgia L 15-12 2 13 6.5 10 0 1 10 10.0 10 0 0 0
12/2 Wake Forest L 9-6 8 117 14.6 26 0 2 -3 -1.5 6 0 0 0
GATOR BOWL AT JACKSONVILLE FL @West Virginia L 38-35 9 186 20.7 48 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0


I understand that Calvin most likely has a great future, but take a look at his numbers in 2006. He put up some good numbers, but there were also games where he completely disappeared. Samford: 4 catches, 26 yards. Troy : 2 Catches, 9 yards. Miami: 5 Catches, 68 yards (Not horrible, but not AMAZING either). UNC: 3 catches, 13 yards. Georgia: 2 catches 13 yards.

He had some great games, no doubt, but he also had ALOT of games where he disappeared. That gives me pause. DB's in the NFL are not the same 5'6" scrubs he's used to going against vs. teams like Wake Forest. Defenses are complex in the NFL and designed to rough a receiver up before he can get into his routes.

These are the challenges that EVERY college player faces, they are not unique to Calvin, but he is miost likely not going to become the top NFL receiver right out of the gate. There will be an adjustment period, no matter HOW good he is.

It just bothers me that people start throwing around the names of the best receivers in the game who have proven to be amazing through YEARS of work, dedication and skill, and then some rookie comes in and people start saying that he'll be a combination of these hall of famers.

Last year, EVERYONE was touting Reggie Bush as a combination of Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders. Well, he had a pretty good rookie year, but he didn't set the world on fire. I except something similar with Calvin, MAYBE 1000 yards, MAYBE 7-10 TD's. He won't lead the league in receptions his first year out, especially is he is playing in Oakland or Cleveland.

I just wish everyone would temper their expectations during draft time, and take a step back into reality.
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Old 03-20-2007   #19
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

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Originally Posted by Dallas_Texan View Post
I know it's a pipe-dream, but can you imagine if we could trade Babin, Greenwood, and Sage with a 4th, and a 2008 2nd. to move up in the draft a little. If so, imagine the Texans with CJ!!!!!!!!
I can't even imagine Casserly making that trade. Anybody who would should be fired!
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Old 03-20-2007   #20
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Default Re: 2007 line-up if we trade up

Quote:
Originally Posted by supertruck97 View Post
Draft Value Chart:

http://www.gbnreport.com/tradevaluetable.html

#3 Pick Value: 2200
#8 Pick Value: 1400

Difference? 800 Points

Value of the 8th pick in the 2nd round: 510
Value of the 8th pick in the 3rd round: 230

Total value of 1st+2nd+3rd round picks of the Texans: 2140

STILL not enough to get to 3 to nab Calvin.

It'll take a Ricky Williams type entire draft deal to get Calvin to the Texans. Forget about it.
He's also throwing in Jason Babin who played more snaps at DE than anyone on our team not named Mario in '06, and Sage who is going to be our starting QB in '07, & Morlon Greenwood, who was probably second on our team in tackles.

This trade would be better than the Ricky Williams trade, and stupid for the Texans.
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