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Old 03-10-2007   #1
aquafin
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Default Rosenfels?

Looks like Sage might be your starting QB next year?

I've been waiting for you guys to pick up a free agent QB like Garcia or Plummer, but that didn't work out. If you draft a QB there is no guarantee that he'll be ready to take a lot of snaps in his first year.

So waht are your options now? In my opinion your best option is to give the job to Sage in 2008.

Or you guys could pull off a blockbuster trade for Matt Schaub in Atlanta.

In Miami, I have been excited by what I have seen out of Cleo Lemon.Our coach, Cam Cameron, worked with Cleo in SanDiego, and appears to think highly of him. So it seems if Culpepper doesn't work out this year, then Cleo will be our starter. I see us possibly getting Trent Green as a solid backup and insurance policy. It would seem that Trent Green might also be a viable option for you guys too? A lot depends on Culpepper with us. But again, Cleo Lemon looked good when he played. he was the only Dolphin QB who threw more TD's than INT'slast year. He was phenomenal in preseason too.
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Old 03-10-2007   #2
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

Right now it is looking like it will be Save vs. Carr but who knows what will happen before then.

You watched Sage play and win some games for you. Do you think he can be the starter for the season and take us to good places?
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Old 03-10-2007   #3
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

I didn't see Lemon play much with the Fins last year, but I really liked what I saw from him in pre-season a couple of years ago in San Diego. I thought he could be a good player.

And I think our QB situation still has a lot of chapters to go before that story's over.
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Old 03-10-2007   #4
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

Sage sucks...I pray he dosen't start. Carr is even better than Sage. The numbers tell the tale...and all Sage has is 4 games in mop up duty.
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Old 03-10-2007   #5
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

I liked Sage in Miami. I really regretted that he left. He came off the bench for us and on several occasions and turned sure defeat into victory. I only remember Sage having one really bad game with us, and unfortunately it was a game he started against Cleveland. So for some reason, based on that one game, a lot of people seem to think he's not a starting QB. You can't say that while basing it on one or two games. Anyway, I wish he was still a Dolphin. I had that same bad feeling this year when we let Wes Welker get away to New England. But at least they gave us a 2nd and a 7th round pick for him. We currently have 9 draft picks in the upcoming draft.

Regarding Carr...how many more years will the Texans stick with him? When do you say enough? 7 years? 8 years? What? Getting the right QB in there can change everything!!!! Just look at Vince Young in Tennesse. There's no reason to flounder year after year waiting for a QB to blossom. It didn't take Vince Young long to get going. It didn't take Marino very long to get going. How about Phil Rivers in SD? The really good QB's don't take that long to become leaders. But after 6 or 7 years(David Carr) man you have gone on far too long. At least the Lions didn't give Harrington that long. No, they cut their losses.
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Old 03-10-2007   #6
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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Originally Posted by aquafin View Post
I liked Sage in Miami. I really regretted that he left. He came off the bench for us and on several occasions and turned sure defeat into victory. I only remember Sage having one really bad game with us, and unfortunately it was a game he started against Cleveland. So for some reason, based on that one game, a lot of people seem to think he's not a starting QB. You can't say that while basing it on one or two games. Anyway, I wish he was still a Dolphin. I had that same bad feeling this year when we let Wes Welker get away to New England. But at least they gave us a 2nd and a 7th round pick for him. We currently have 9 draft picks in the upcoming draft.

Regarding Carr...how many more years will the Texans stick with him? When do you say enough? 7 years? 8 years? What? Getting the right QB in there can change everything!!!! Just look at vVince Young in Tennesse. There's no reason to flounder year after year waiting for a QB to blossom. It dodn't take Vince Young long to get going. It didn't take Marino very long to get going. The really good QB's don't take that long to become leaders. But after 6 or 7 years(David Carr) man you have gobe on far too long. At least the Lions didn't give Harrington that long. No, they cut their losses.
Yeah, I think letting Welker get away from you was a bad thing but letting him go to the Pats was even worse for you guys.

Now, there's been a lot of talk about Carr on this MB and I'm one of the guys that was supporting Carr last year and is not supporting him this year. This franchise has been pretty amazing about sticking with its guy through thick and thin but I, for one, think it's time to move on. It really surprises me that there are still a lot of people who don't think he's been given a chance to succeed. I personally think he cost us at least 2 games and possibly more last year. I'm hoping that at least Sage gets a chance to start this year and I'm starting to think that Kubiak might be leaning in that direction himself.

I can't wait for training camp to start for some of these things to resolve themselves.

And... how do you guys feel about Zgonina? Does he still have something left in the tank?
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Old 03-10-2007   #7
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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Originally Posted by aquafin View Post
Looks like Sage might be your starting QB next year?

In my opinion your best option is to give the job to Sage in 2008.
The 2008 season is a long ways away and i'm not sure where we'll be at by that time....unless you mean he ends up starting a playoff game this coming season..i'd be thrilled!
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Old 03-11-2007   #8
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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Originally Posted by MATRIX View Post
Sage sucks...I pray he dosen't start. Carr is even better than Sage. The numbers tell the tale...and all Sage has is 4 games in mop up duty.
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Old 03-11-2007   #9
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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Originally Posted by MATRIX View Post
Sage sucks...I pray he dosen't start. Carr is even better than Sage. The numbers tell the tale...and all Sage has is 4 games in mop up duty.
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Old 03-11-2007   #10
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

i hope sage starts. there were no legitimate upgrades available through free agency and this isnt much of a year for drafting a quarterback in the first couple of rounds to take over quickly. our best option is to cut carr, start sage with BVP & porter behind him, and look for a quarterback to groom in the middle rounds. that clears up cap room now and in the near future, and gives us a working scenario to keep us competitive without breaking the bank while we search for the next big thing.

sage might not be as good as carr, but he's also not nearly as bad. what i mean is that while carr has "all of the tools" and what-not, carr cost us games that we should've won with someone who could throw 2 touchdowns in a game or hold onto the ball. i feel that sage can do the things that we'd need to be more aggressive on offense and is someone who obviously is unaffected by the "shell shock" we're used to seeing when the big game and defensive pressure amps up.
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Old 03-11-2007   #11
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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Originally Posted by aquafin View Post
I liked Sage in Miami. I really regretted that he left. He came off the bench for us and on several occasions and turned sure defeat into victory. I only remember Sage having one really bad game with us, and unfortunately it was a game he started against Cleveland. So for some reason, based on that one game, a lot of people seem to think he's not a starting QB. You can't say that while basing it on one or two games. Anyway, I wish he was still a Dolphin. I had that same bad feeling this year when we let Wes Welker get away to New England. But at least they gave us a 2nd and a 7th round pick for him. We currently have 9 draft picks in the upcoming draft.

Regarding Carr...how many more years will the Texans stick with him? When do you say enough? 7 years? 8 years? What? Getting the right QB in there can change everything!!!! Just look at Vince Young in Tennesse. There's no reason to flounder year after year waiting for a QB to blossom. It didn't take Vince Young long to get going. It didn't take Marino very long to get going. How about Phil Rivers in SD? The really good QB's don't take that long to become leaders. But after 6 or 7 years(David Carr) man you have gone on far too long. At least the Lions didn't give Harrington that long. No, they cut their losses.
I am curious how many Super Bowls did Marino take you to and won?This sounds like sarcastic question but I truly am curious.Weren't there also a few QBs that Sage couldn't beat out there in Miami?
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Old 03-11-2007   #12
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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I am curious how many Super Bowls did Marino take you to and won?This sounds like sarcastic question but I truly am curious.Weren't there also a few QBs that Sage couldn't beat out there in Miami?
marino won 0 and went to 1. sage mainly couldnt beat out jay fiedler, aj feeley, & gus ferotte during his time in miami. i'd blame that on coaching since miami hasnt had a strong offense in many years and i would've given sage a more legit chance to prove himself after seeing those guys perform.
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Old 03-11-2007   #13
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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Originally Posted by MATRIX View Post
Sage sucks...I pray he dosen't start. Carr is even better than Sage. The numbers tell the tale...and all Sage has is 4 games in mop up duty.
...and Carr has 70+ games that are certainly not 'showtime' material...what could Sage do with another 70 games?...light it up like he did against the Titans with almost 200 yds passing and 3 tds in a half?...

Carr has avg 12 tds a season in 5 seasons, a figure that has been surpassed by most starting qbs and even their back ups
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Old 03-11-2007   #14
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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Originally Posted by tsip View Post
...and Carr has 70+ games that are certainly not 'showtime' material...what could Sage do with another 70 games?...light it up like he did against the Titans with almost 200 yds passing and 3 tds in a half?...

Carr has avg 12 tds a season in 5 seasons, a figure that has been surpassed by most starting qbs and even their back ups
yeah but look at who they were playing
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Old 03-11-2007   #15
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquafin View Post
I liked Sage in Miami. I really regretted that he left. He came off the bench for us and on several occasions and turned sure defeat into victory. I only remember Sage having one really bad game with us, and unfortunately it was a game he started against Cleveland. So for some reason, based on that one game, a lot of people seem to think he's not a starting QB. You can't say that while basing it on one or two games. Anyway, I wish he was still a Dolphin. I had that same bad feeling this year when we let Wes Welker get away to New England. But at least they gave us a 2nd and a 7th round pick for him. We currently have 9 draft picks in the upcoming draft.

Regarding Carr...how many more years will the Texans stick with him? When do you say enough? 7 years? 8 years? What? Getting the right QB in there can change everything!!!! Just look at Vince Young in Tennesse. There's no reason to flounder year after year waiting for a QB to blossom. It didn't take Vince Young long to get going. It didn't take Marino very long to get going. How about Phil Rivers in SD? The really good QB's don't take that long to become leaders. But after 6 or 7 years(David Carr) man you have gone on far too long. At least the Lions didn't give Harrington that long. No, they cut their losses.
expansion team with an expansion owner. I think they had to figure it out the hard way.
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Old 03-11-2007   #16
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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expansion team with an expansion owner. I think they had to figure it out the hard way.
Excellent point!
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Old 03-11-2007   #17
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

Sage will be a great starter for us.
He showed us a glimpse at what he can do in that Titans game.
It took Carr 5+ games to get another three TDs, Sage did it in just over ONE QTR of play.
Sage is smart and can learn...something Carr has proven he cannot do.
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Old 03-11-2007   #18
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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Originally Posted by aquafin View Post
Regarding Carr...how many more years will the Texans stick with him? When do you say enough? 7 years? 8 years? What? Getting the right QB in there can change everything!!!! Just look at Vince Young in Tennesse.
You had to bring up the VY thing didn't you !
But I think it's accurate to say that most of us here in Houston think by now its increasingly difficult to see Carr with the Texans this Fall, under any scenario.
Question 'bout Sage ? We lost him for the balance of the season last year
because he suffered an injury while covering a return on a failed FG attempt
where he was the holder. Were there any durability issues with Sage while in Miami with the Dolphins ?
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Old 03-11-2007   #19
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

Again I ask you Carr fans....How many more years? When do you say enough?

The right QB can change everything. Look at Vince Young and his impact on the Titans. Look at the impact Garcia had in Philly. Miam was instantly transformed into a playoff team and contender year after year when Marino was put in the game as a rookie. Look at the impact Brees had in New Orleans. Look at the impact Roethlisberger had in Pitt during his rookie year. It doesn't take 7-8 years as you see.

So how many more years? When do you say enough?

This is not a sarcastic thread I have started here. This is not a my QB is better than your QB thread or a my team is better than your team thread. I'm asking a legitimate question. How much longer? When do you say enough? And is Sage your best option in 2008 since you have not made a push to get a free gaent QB? Plummer fell through it seems. So either you guys are going to start Carr or Rosenfels, right?

I'm a Dolphin fan first, but I admire the Texans a bit, which is why I hang out here. I like coach K, and have always been a Rosenfels fan when he was in Miami.

Jay Fiedler was playing well enough to not get demoted. We had Ricky Williams and we were winning 9-10 games a year. Not great, but just enough to not draw too much attention to the need of change at QB. Sage was carrying a clipboard as a 3rd stringer. At first he was just trying not to get cut, But he played well in the preseason games..and so he survived. He was battling! Everything fell through when Ricky went AWOL...and we lost 12 games. So in comes Saban. He doesn't know who Sage is. But again, Sage played well in preseason games and survived once more. The coaches started to gain more respect for him. AJ Feeley and Gus Frerotte were the guys though. They thought Feeley was the 2nd coming. Feeley had played well and showed some glimpses of promise the prior year and it seemed he was going to be number one on the depth chart coming into Saban's first year. Sage outplayed them both in preseason but still wasn't getting the respect. Feeley gets the job out of preseason and throws a few INT's. That drew Saban's ire and in comes Frerotte. Feeley was traded to SD for Cleo Lemon. Rosenfels moved up to number 2. But Frerotte played well enough to keep his job. We reeled off 6 straight wins to end that season...so no way Rosenfels was going to get in there as long as they were winning. But Rosenfels did come off the bench a few times when Frerotte was hurt or playing bad and he pulled out two great comebacks for us. One of those we were behind the Bills in the 4th by a score of 23-3. I think Sage started one game in Miami against the Browns and didn't play well. Nor did any of his Dolphin teamates. The Browns kicked our butts. So I can't judge Sage's ability to be a starter on that one game. But he hung tough in Miami and worked his way up. The result of his hard work was a good free agent contract with the Texans, and perhaps a chance to start. So he goes from a clipboard carrying 3rd stringer barely hanging on to a decent backup and potential starting QB. He worked hard and got better.

What did Saban do for us? Well, he drafted Ronnie Brown and Channing Crowder. Plus he traded for Cleo Lemon. Three young guys that could help us alot. Ronnie is already huge! Cleo could be our guy at QB. Looked good in limited action last year. Crowder left school as a sophmore, so this is in reality his rookie year, even though he has 2 NFL seasons under his belt. I think he is a potential pro bowl type of Linebacker. We'll see.

Good luck Texan fans. Can't wait til preseason get's going. I'll be here talking ball with ya.
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Old 03-11-2007   #20
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Default Re: Rosenfels?

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Originally Posted by 2BCarrFree View Post
Sage will be a great starter for us.
He showed us a glimpse at what he can do in that Titans game.
It took Carr 5+ games to get another three TDs, Sage did it in just over ONE QTR of play.
Sage is smart and can learn...something Carr has proven he cannot do.
Yet Rick Smith is quoted as saying he is bringing in a veteran to challenge Carr for the starting position. Not even a mention of Sage? Sage would be the 3rd stringer or practice squad in this scenerio our GM is proposing, yet you proclaim him the starter for the season and also say he will be great? Miss Cleo has nothing on you my man.
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