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Old 03-05-2007   #1
DomDavis
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Default FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Browsing this board and a few of the Chronicle blogs, it seems there are a lot of folks who love to whine for the sake of whining without actually understanding the subject of what they're arguing. So, I figured it'd be good to have a single thread to dismiss most of these lies.

1. Why sign a running back who's injury-prone?

Well, because he's not. He had one leg injury two years ago - other than that, his track record has been one of incredible durability. 16 games, 14 games, 16 games, 16 games, 14 games, 16 games, 15 games, 5 years, and 14 games. You tell me which is the outlier among Green's nine seasons in the league. If anything, durability with Green is a positive, not a negative.

2. He's aging and washed up. A has been.

Do washed up has-beens accumulate almost 1,500 yards from scrimmage on about 300 touches last season? Do they average 4 YPC behind a poor offensive line (probably worse at run blocking than ours) and catch 46 passes at more than 8 YPC? Pop quiz: for all the love Reggie Bush gets for his versatility, who had more combined offensive yards (rushing + receiving) last season for a higher yards per touch - Reggie Bush, or Ahman Green? If you answered the latter, you'd be correct. If Green is a has been based on last season, I guess that makes Bush a never was.

3. Why not Travis Henry?

Because Henry averaged 3.5 YPC in 2004, 3.8 in 2005, and 2.7 in 2006 until VY showed up, when his YPC instantly shot up. Coincidence? I think not. Henry looked poor for three consecutive seasons, until he was able to benefit from the zone read scheme that made linebackers a step slow because they had to account for the possibility of Young faking the handoff and keeping it himself. Second, want to talk injury prone? That label applies to Henry - a guy with multiple nagging injuries - moreso than it does to Green, a durable player with one significant injury his entire career.

4. Running backs at 30 or older never do anything.

I guess someone forgot to tell that to Tiki Barber, who rushed for 1860 and 1662 yards the last two seasons on more than 5 YPC to go with approximately 500 receiving yards. I guess someone forgot to tell that to Warrick Dunn, who rushed for 1416 yards and 1140 yards the last two seasons, at 5 and 4 YPC. I guess someone forgot to tell that to Fred Taylor, who rushed for 1146 yards at 5 YPC last season. While a majority of backs are young, by no means is it a rule or requirement.

5. Why sign a reject that other teams didn't want?

Green Bay tried to re-sign him. Denver tried to sign him. The logic of "why sign so and so because so and so's old team let him go" can be applied to every free agent in the history of free agency. If you believe in that, why pursue anyone other than in the draft? Green had plenty of other suitors, but we offered the deal to get him here and he took it.

6. Why take another Packer or Bronco?

Yeah, I'm sure it's an obsession thing. Or maybe, just maybe, the Texans had a need at RB, and looked at all their options. They wanted someone with a proven track record - how's 6 out of 7 1,000 yard seasons sound? They wanted someone with experience behind a bad offensive line - how's the worst run-blocking OL in the league last season (Green Bay) sound? They wanted someone with experience with the zone blocking scheme - guess what Green Bay runs? They wanted someone with sound character to step up and be a leader - that's one thing Green is known for. They wanted someone to be a receiver out of the backfield - how does 46 catches at more than 8 YPC sound? Along with four seasons of 50 receptions or more? They wanted someone to step in for 2-3 seasons while a back for the future is developed via the draft - how's a 30 year old with about 2-3 really good years left in the tank sound?

Maybe it's not because they're obsessed with Packer running backs. Maybe it's because he's a really good fit. Think about it.

7. Why sign anyone so old? We're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

Yeah! That's the spirit! Don't even try in the next couple of years - that'll help build support for this franchise! Also, remember what happened the last time this team cut veteran leadership (Glenn and Sharper) and the dropoff that ensued when the team was put almost exclusively put in younger hands? Every team needs veteran leadership, particularly at skill positions, to direct the offense and help younger players. It's a vital part of building a team.

8. Why overpay for a 30-year old RB?

Well, first of all, running backs in the top five for the decade with 6 of 7 thousand-yard seasons (including last season) with good receiving skills don't come asking to play for the minimum. Secondly, this is the Houston Texans, not the Indianapolis Colts. This has been one of the worst teams in football for five years now. You think players are begging to play here? You have to pay a premium, change the culture, get some wins, and then potentially reap the rewards. It's a phase of rebuilding - either deal with it, or plan on rebuilding for a whole lot longer.



None of this is to say the signing is perfect - it certainly has its risks. But a few folks sound like they're complaining simply for the sake of complaining, rather than it being sound judgment and reasoning. These responses should answer some of the negativity.
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Old 03-05-2007   #2
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

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Originally Posted by DomDavis View Post
6. Why take another Packer or Bronco?

Yeah, I'm sure it's an obsession thing. Or maybe, just maybe, the Texans had a need at RB, and looked at all their options. They wanted someone with a proven track record - how's 6 out of 7 1,000 yard seasons sound? They wanted someone with experience behind a bad offensive line - how's the worst run-blocking OL in the league last season (Green Bay) sound? They wanted someone with experience with the zone blocking scheme - guess what Green Bay runs? They wanted someone with sound character to step up and be a leader - that's one thing Green is known for. They wanted someone to be a receiver out of the backfield - how does 46 catches at more than 8 YPC sound? Along with four seasons of 50 receptions or more? They wanted someone to step in for 2-3 seasons while a back for the future is developed via the draft - how's a 30 year old with about 2-3 really good years left in the tank sound?

Maybe it's not because they're obsessed with Packer running backs. Maybe it's because he's a really good fit. Think about it.
You forgot to mention his ability to pick up the blitz, he's also a very good pass blocker for a RB
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Old 03-05-2007   #3
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Nice post. I get really tired of reading all the whiners on these boards myself.
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Old 03-05-2007   #4
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Nice post. I wasn't all that excited at first, as he just didn't make headlines last season like he has in the past. Now, I'm a bit more optomistic. Especially with AP likely not falling to us in the draft. But I also wonder what's going on in GB. Is Morency the starter now? I really liked him and I'd be a bit dissappointed if I knew we gave up on a starter like Morency. Morency for Gado... I think it's obvious who won that trade.
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Old 03-05-2007   #5
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

i dont know has this been posted in the other thread but it probably belongs here anyway because it may be myth: whereas im not surprised we picked green up because of the GB connection...i am surprised we picked him up with his rumoured personal problems ie. rumours that he beat up his wife

doesnt really seem like a mcnair/texans signing
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Old 03-05-2007   #6
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Congratulations Batman!! Ahman you got a good deal.

Ahman Green is a good consistent back. He does not whine or complain. If he says something needs to be corrected listen to him.

People will complain about this or that but he is a complete package. Not too big, not to slow. He can set up blocks by the line. He had a phrase in Green Bay- BYOB. Sometimes you have to Bring Your Own Blocker. He can run over, leap over, stiff arm, and fake defenders as needed.

While he is better than average at blitz pick up often he would chip and get into the pattern. If he did pick up the blitz a linebacker was also spying him which helped the open up the passing game. If the blitz did not come the occasional shovel pass worked well.

As a Packer fan I say Ahman Green's best attribute is versatility. He can do it all. The negative? He has asthma. When working on an 80 yard drive after 50 yards he might need a series off to catch his breath. It happened a lot at the edge of field goal range. He is a great locker room guy.

I don't know what the Packers were offering. 2 or 3 years??

The Packers got 7 years of great production by trading a 2nd round bust to the Seahawks for him. If the Texans get 3 good years of Batman it is a break even deal or better deal.

Expect 1100 yards rushing, 400-500 yards receiving, and several TD's where he is the decoy and another receiver is open. If it is third and short no one in the league is better. If it is 4th and 2 expect to go for it and get the 1st down.

I question the price tag. But it is gamble the Texans took and the Packers did not.
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Old 03-05-2007   #7
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Excellent post.
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Old 03-05-2007   #8
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Finally a positive post.
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Old 03-05-2007   #9
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Whoop Whoop; a GREAT post. Use those facts!

Every FA signing is a risk. Some guys bring intangibles that make taking that risk worth while. Green is one of those guys.
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Old 03-05-2007   #10
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

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Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
i dont know has this been posted in the other thread but it probably belongs here anyway because it may be myth: whereas im not surprised we picked green up because of the GB connection...i am surprised we picked him up with his rumoured personal problems ie. rumours that he beat up his wife

doesnt really seem like a mcnair/texans signing
wow. Good call.

http://www.endabuse.org/celebritywatch/index.php?Fame=N
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=321631

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Ahman Green
In May 2002, Shalynn Green received an order of protection against her husband, Ahman Green, a professional football player with the Green Bay Packers. Shalynn Green accused Ahman Green of threatening her and beating her twice while she was pregnant, reports USA Today. The order requires Ahman Green to stay away from his wife’s home and their children’s day care center; the judge also granted temporary custody to Shalynn Green. In March, police cited both Shalynn and Ahman Green on suspicion of disturbing the peace after an argument that left Ahman Green with a cut lip, according to USA Today.
Quote:
Green has been involved in a domestic violence case before, involving his former wife, Shalynn Vance.

The two met in high school but had a rocky relationship. According to press reports in October 1999, the two got into an argument hours before their wedding and Green left the couple’s apartment.

Vance tried to lock the door behind them but Green re-opened it, and it hit her. The door chipped a tooth and bloodied her lips.
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Last edited by TwinSisters; 03-05-2007 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 03-05-2007   #11
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

I fail to see the relevance of facts
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Old 03-05-2007   #12
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Great post, that is how you back up your argument!
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Old 03-05-2007   #13
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Great post man! I enjoyed reading it and it was a breath of fresh air as compared to most of the negative posts that are going on right now. Very informative.
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Old 03-05-2007   #14
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Default Ahman in 2006

Here's a week by week summary of Ahman's rushing from last season. It's a pay site so I'm not sure if everyone can look up the results themselves.


Week 1 vs CHI - The Green Bay workhorse was back at it after an injury shortened his 2005 campaign. He gained 110 yards on a great run defense, and caught three passes for another 22 yards. Green carried the ball a total of 20 times, including Green Bay’s first play of the game, and the very last with 21 seconds on the clock.

Week 2 vs NO - Green never managed to get anything going on the ground, finding short gains both inside and outside. He was more effective out of the backfield on several screen passes and drop offs in the flat. Green rushed for 42 yards on 16 carries but even more disappointing was his longest run of the game at just eight yards. He showed no sign of his past injuries, making several cutbacks to the inside without any problem. Green had six receptions out of the backfield for 48 yards. He had two fumbles in the game, one recovered by New Orleans which led to a Saints’ touchdown on the very next play.

Week 3 at DET - Ahman Green started the game despite reports that hinted to his missing time with a hamstring injury. He played nearly all of the game at tailback, certainly more than any other RB for Green Bay. He struggled as a runner, gaining fewer than three yards per carry and managing a long of just eight yards. He contributed far more as a receiver, as he caught all eight of his targets for a combined 68 yards and a touchdown.

Green nearly cost the Packers the game, as he fumbled the ball in the final minute of the game, which set up Detroit’s final drive. Fortunately for Green and Green Bay, the Lions failed to tie the game with a touchdown.

Week 4 at PHI - He was expected to play, but Green was surprisingly declared inactive for the game due to a hamstring injury.

Week 5 vs STL - Green was a late scratch for the second consecutive week due to his injured hamstring.

Week 7 at MIA - Green had missed the Packers' last two games because of a hamstring injury, but looked healthy in this game. He had a slow start as he only had 12 carries for 30 yards in the first half. Green cramped up at halftime and needed an I-V to get some fluids in him, but he did return in the second half. Green was having a quiet game as he only had 38 yards going into the fourth quarter, but that all changed when he took the ball 70 yards for touchdown on a run up the left side. He showed he still has breakaway speed as he outran the Dolphins’ defensive back down the sideline. Green got the majority of carries in the game as he had 18 carries and running backs Noah Herron and Vernand Morency had nine carries combined.

Week 8 vs ARI - Green ran hard for the second week in a row, after sitting out for two weeks with hamstring woes. His long gain was 14 yards and had several runs of over ten yards. He shared the load with Morency and was very productive, scoring two touchdowns in the second quarter.

Week 9 at BUF - Green started the game very slowly as the Buffalo defense seemed committed to not allowing the Packers to cut back and gain yardage. He was consistently stopped after short gains. But late in the second quarter and throughout much of the second half he started to find more running room and gained significant yardage. He ran relentlessly and with power. So far this season he has not shown his tendency to fumble the ball as in years past. He is apparently nearly back to his old self. He is rested often; in fact the Packers make sure that he does not run the ball more than 25 times per game.

Week 10 at MIN - Green had 41 yards on 14 carries in the first half against Vikings run defense that ranked number one coming into this game. He did have some scoring opportunities in the first half. He had a couple of goal line carries in the first quarter, but was stopped by a tough Vikings run defense. Green also missed a catchable ball thrown to him from Brett Favre in the first quarter in the end zone.

The yards came a lot harder in the second half as he only had 14 yards on eight carries as the Minnesota run defense stepped it up. He had a couple of scoring opportunities in the third quarter when he had a run and a pass thrown to him inside the Vikings’ ten yard line, but otherwise it was a very quiet half for Green.

Week 11 vs NE - Green Bay’s leading rusher finished the game with 28 yards on 13 attempts. With the Packers trailing the entire game, the rushing attack was all but forgotten.

Week 12 at SEA - Green scored on a five yard run to cap the Packers’ opening drive. He was given 11 carries in the first half as the team tried to dominate the game on the ground in the snowy conditions. Green also recovered a fumble from Favre in the first half. Green was ineffective after his opening score, and only had four gains of more than two yards on the ground from 14 carries. He was involved in the passing game in the second half, catching all six targets for a total of 46 yards.

Week 13 vs NYJ - While the passing game struggled, Ahman Green was one of the few bright stars for the Packers as he was able to find large holes in the Jets’ defense, including a run where he went right up the middle and scampered for 35 yards. Green also had a great second half where he was able to eclipse the 100 yard rushing mark on the ground and finished the day with 102 yards.

Week 14 at SF - Opening the game with a nine yard run, this was nearly his long run on the afternoon, though he later picked up a ten yard gain on a day where the Packers led the entire game, but he only averaged 3.7 yards per carry. On the play before his one yard touchdown plunge, Green was targeted on an unsuccessful passing attempt.

Week 15 vs DET - The former Nebraska Cornhusker rushed for 79 yards on 22 carries, and gained another 44 yards on seven pass receptions. He was able to find enough holes in the depleted Detroit line to give the Packers a nearly eight minute advantage in time of possession.

Week 16 vs MIN - Neither team really established any semblance of a running game, although Green Bay certainly had some early success. The numbers don’t fully back it up, but Green looked good running the ball early on. He was quick and elusive in the backfield, and had several decent mid-length runs. For whatever reason, despite the slick conditions on the field, each coach opted for more of an air it out approach, which really hindered Green’s opportunities for success.

Week 17 at CHI - Green played well and repeatedly fought for extra yardage by keeping his legs moving and shedding defenders. He ran the ball with authority and determination on his way to eclipsing the 1,000 yard mark for the sixth time in his career. Green carried the ball 21 times for 71 yards and provided an additional 39 yards receiving on four receptions. He finished the season with 1,059 yards and five touchdowns.



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Old 03-05-2007   #15
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Not going to call it good posting because there was no inclusion of the outcome of the case. Like too many domestic violence cases one was not prosecuted. IIRC, The then WIFE of Ahman Green was actually the one charged with abuse before that thing went nowhere. The facts are often murky in these cases and Green has no other known incidences. Not trying to paint him Mr. wonderful, but there is not real evidence here to portray him as a wife beater.
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Old 03-05-2007   #16
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Great post! How refreshing to read actual facts! Thank you!
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Old 03-05-2007   #17
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
i dont know has this been posted in the other thread but it probably belongs here anyway because it may be myth: whereas im not surprised we picked green up because of the GB connection...i am surprised we picked him up with his rumoured personal problems ie. rumours that he beat up his wife

doesnt really seem like a mcnair/texans signing

Quote:
Not going to call it good posting because there was no inclusion of the outcome of the case. Like too many domestic violence cases one was not prosecuted. IIRC, The then WIFE of Ahman Green was actually the one charged with abuse before that thing went nowhere. The facts are often murky in these cases and Green has no other known incidences. Not trying to paint him Mr. wonderful, but there is not real evidence here to portray him as a wife beater.
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Old 03-05-2007   #18
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

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Originally Posted by DomDavis View Post
Browsing this board and a few of the Chronicle blogs, it seems there are a lot of folks who love to whine for the sake of whining without actually understanding the subject of what they're arguing. So, I figured it'd be good to have a single thread to dismiss most of these lies.

1. Why sign a running back who's injury-prone?

Well, because he's not. He had one leg injury two years ago - other than that, his track record has been one of incredible durability. 16 games, 14 games, 16 games, 16 games, 14 games, 16 games, 15 games, 5 years, and 14 games. You tell me which is the outlier among Green's nine seasons in the league. If anything, durability with Green is a positive, not a negative.

2. He's aging and washed up. A has been.

Do washed up has-beens accumulate almost 1,500 yards from scrimmage on about 300 touches last season? Do they average 4 YPC behind a poor offensive line (probably worse at run blocking than ours) and catch 46 passes at more than 8 YPC? Pop quiz: for all the love Reggie Bush gets for his versatility, who had more combined offensive yards (rushing + receiving) last season for a higher yards per touch - Reggie Bush, or Ahman Green? If you answered the latter, you'd be correct. If Green is a has been based on last season, I guess that makes Bush a never was.

3. Why not Travis Henry?

Because Henry averaged 3.5 YPC in 2004, 3.8 in 2005, and 2.7 in 2006 until VY showed up, when his YPC instantly shot up. Coincidence? I think not. Henry looked poor for three consecutive seasons, until he was able to benefit from the zone read scheme that made linebackers a step slow because they had to account for the possibility of Young faking the handoff and keeping it himself. Second, want to talk injury prone? That label applies to Henry - a guy with multiple nagging injuries - moreso than it does to Green, a durable player with one significant injury his entire career.

4. Running backs at 30 or older never do anything.

I guess someone forgot to tell that to Tiki Barber, who rushed for 1860 and 1662 yards the last two seasons on more than 5 YPC to go with approximately 500 receiving yards. I guess someone forgot to tell that to Warrick Dunn, who rushed for 1416 yards and 1140 yards the last two seasons, at 5 and 4 YPC. I guess someone forgot to tell that to Fred Taylor, who rushed for 1146 yards at 5 YPC last season. While a majority of backs are young, by no means is it a rule or requirement.

5. Why sign a reject that other teams didn't want?

Green Bay tried to re-sign him. Denver tried to sign him. The logic of "why sign so and so because so and so's old team let him go" can be applied to every free agent in the history of free agency. If you believe in that, why pursue anyone other than in the draft? Green had plenty of other suitors, but we offered the deal to get him here and he took it.

6. Why take another Packer or Bronco?

Yeah, I'm sure it's an obsession thing. Or maybe, just maybe, the Texans had a need at RB, and looked at all their options. They wanted someone with a proven track record - how's 6 out of 7 1,000 yard seasons sound? They wanted someone with experience behind a bad offensive line - how's the worst run-blocking OL in the league last season (Green Bay) sound? They wanted someone with experience with the zone blocking scheme - guess what Green Bay runs? They wanted someone with sound character to step up and be a leader - that's one thing Green is known for. They wanted someone to be a receiver out of the backfield - how does 46 catches at more than 8 YPC sound? Along with four seasons of 50 receptions or more? They wanted someone to step in for 2-3 seasons while a back for the future is developed via the draft - how's a 30 year old with about 2-3 really good years left in the tank sound?

Maybe it's not because they're obsessed with Packer running backs. Maybe it's because he's a really good fit. Think about it.

7. Why sign anyone so old? We're not going to contend in the next couple of years.

Yeah! That's the spirit! Don't even try in the next couple of years - that'll help build support for this franchise! Also, remember what happened the last time this team cut veteran leadership (Glenn and Sharper) and the dropoff that ensued when the team was put almost exclusively put in younger hands? Every team needs veteran leadership, particularly at skill positions, to direct the offense and help younger players. It's a vital part of building a team.

8. Why overpay for a 30-year old RB?

Well, first of all, running backs in the top five for the decade with 6 of 7 thousand-yard seasons (including last season) with good receiving skills don't come asking to play for the minimum. Secondly, this is the Houston Texans, not the Indianapolis Colts. This has been one of the worst teams in football for five years now. You think players are begging to play here? You have to pay a premium, change the culture, get some wins, and then potentially reap the rewards. It's a phase of rebuilding - either deal with it, or plan on rebuilding for a whole lot longer.



None of this is to say the signing is perfect - it certainly has its risks. But a few folks sound like they're complaining simply for the sake of complaining, rather than it being sound judgment and reasoning. These responses should answer some of the negativity.

Definitely post of the day, week, month. Great info and right on. The team needed to make a move at running back and they made one. End of story. The guy's track record speaks for itself.
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Old 03-05-2007   #19
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

Props to you on a very good post, and this thread should be a sticky if I ever saw one.

My take on the whiners . . is they are just peeved that this somehow decreases the chances that somebody who they want to be drafted . . . will be.
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Old 03-05-2007   #20
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Default Re: FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
Not going to call it good posting because there was no inclusion of the outcome of the case. Like too many domestic violence cases one was not prosecuted. IIRC, The then WIFE of Ahman Green was actually the one charged with abuse before that thing went nowhere. The facts are often murky in these cases and Green has no other known incidences. Not trying to paint him Mr. wonderful, but there is not real evidence here to portray him as a wife beater.
yeah the posting is about showing what is published about Ahman's domestic abuse history. One from the left, one from the center.

not to really say anything.

It's a good call to me, because I didn't know anything about it prior. ( or forgot )
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