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Old 03-03-2007   #1
David's Busted Carr
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Default Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Is it just me or is our Offensive Line not as bad as people make it out to be? I mean injuries really hurt us last season, BUT still we have some talent:

Winston - should step up to start this season, possibly at RT
Weary - played well last year, start at RG
Flannigan - hurt last year, start at C
McKinney - soild backup G or C, can start if necessary
Pitts - best OL we have can start variety of spots
Salaam - great backup T insurance
Spencer - cannot be relied up due to injury

Not the best for sure, but it's not all doom and gloom. I really think we need to bite the bullett and draft a LT. Then even if Spencer comes back healthy you can put him at RT and move Winston to guard. More options are GOOD anyway.

If we could somehow get our hands on Joe Thomas.... or even Levi Brown...
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Old 03-03-2007   #2
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

If we could really just get some continuity on the OL, I think you could be right? Have we ever had a full season in our brief little history of having all five starters play from week 1 to week 16?
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Old 03-03-2007   #3
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

If Adrian Peterson does not fall to #8 in the draft then I hope that we get Brown in the first since Thomas will be gone. Whatever quaterback we have starting this year will benefit from an extra second or two that a good o-line man can provide him. Hopefully it will let the recievers have time to get some seperation or get a step on a defender going for the long ball.
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Old 03-03-2007   #4
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David's Busted Carr View Post
Flannigan - hurt last year, start at C
Salaam - great backup T insurance
Flannigan hurt rings truer than Salaam great.
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Old 03-03-2007   #5
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David's Busted Carr View Post
Is it just me or is our Offensive Line not as bad as people make it out to be? I mean injuries really hurt us last season, BUT still we have some talent:

Winston - should step up to start this season, possibly at RT
Weary - played well last year, start at RG
Flannigan - hurt last year, start at C
McKinney - soild backup G or C, can start if necessary
Pitts - best OL we have can start variety of spots
Salaam - great backup T insurance
Spencer - cannot be relied up due to injury

Not the best for sure, but it's not all doom and gloom. I really think we need to bite the bullett and draft a LT. Then even if Spencer comes back healthy you can put him at RT and move Winston to guard. More options are GOOD anyway.

If we could somehow get our hands on Joe Thomas.... or even Levi Brown...

If we drafted Levi Brown, Brandon Merriwether or Aaron Ross (Kick returner and solid CB), and Samson Satele, we'd have the makings of a much-improved O-Line and secondary.
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Old 03-03-2007   #6
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

I agree, I think all the offensive line needs is some more playing time together. They will get better, they just need a chance without constantly switching things up.
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Old 03-03-2007   #7
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Some "sleepers" according to Len Pastabelly, that could pay off for their price:

Damion McIntosh OT
Sean Mahan C/OG
Jordan Black OT
Al Johnson C
Alfonso Boone DT
Travis Fisher CB

All come with some issues, but all would satisfy a Houston need.

I'll still hold out for Gandy though.
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Old 03-03-2007   #8
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David's Busted Carr View Post
Is it just me or is our Offensive Line not as bad as people make it out to be? I mean injuries really hurt us last season, BUT still we have some talent:

Winston - should step up to start this season, possibly at RT
Weary - played well last year, start at RG
Flannigan - hurt last year, start at C
McKinney - soild backup G or C, can start if necessary
Pitts - best OL we have can start variety of spots
Salaam - great backup T insurance
Spencer - cannot be relied up due to injury

Not the best for sure, but it's not all doom and gloom. I really think we need to bite the bullett and draft a LT. Then even if Spencer comes back healthy you can put him at RT and move Winston to guard. More options are GOOD anyway.

If we could somehow get our hands on Joe Thomas.... or even Levi Brown...
I agree that we should really consider drafting Levi Brown (along with Landry, Lynch, or a DL).

However, I still don't understand how David Carr gets ripped for having 5 years to succeed and failing, but MicKinney, Weary, and Pitts get labeled "solid". These guys have been constants on some of the worst pass-blocking O-lines in history!!

I'm not saying "just cut/trade them" like DC, but we need to look get our replacements for these guys now. Looking at the current roster isn't pretty.

Flanagan, at best, was a stop gap due to his age.
Hodgdon proved that he couldn't handle the pivot after Flanagan got hurt.

Thanks to the Babin and P-Buc trades we haven't had the middle round picks to draft good interior linemen. These trades were the biggets mistakes of the Casserly era, because not only did the players not live up to the price we paid, but the cost us 4 picks in the we could have used on future starters and/or quality depth.

This year's draft has a number of solid interior lineman that can be had in the middle rounds. We should definitely be looking to add at least 2 (like we did at tackle last year), if we a truly committed to fixing this mess we call our offensive line.
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Old 03-03-2007   #9
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Funny how the Oline gets the blame for ALL the sacks Carr has taken, but alot of those sacks are on CARR. He takes way too long to get rid of the ball and in some cases just runs around back there like a chicken with his head cut off.

In fact I was watching an NFL insider show once and it compared the time of the release of a bunch of NFL QBs. Most of them were at 3-4 seconds and the ball was GONE. With Carr 6-7-8 and he's still running around with the ball. I'm sorry, but even the best OL can't block those HUGE defensive lineman forever!
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Old 03-03-2007   #10
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mj. View Post
I agree that we should really consider drafting Levi Brown (along with Landry, Lynch, or a DL).

However, I still don't understand how David Carr gets ripped for having 5 years to succeed and failing, but MicKinney, Weary, and Pitts get labeled "solid". These guys have been constants on some of the worst pass-blocking O-lines in history!!

I'm not saying "just cut/trade them" like DC, but we need to look get our replacements for these guys now. Looking at the current roster isn't pretty.

Flanagan, at best, was a stop gap due to his age.
Hodgdon proved that he couldn't handle the pivot after Flanagan got hurt.

Thanks to the Babin and P-Buc trades we haven't had the middle round picks to draft good interior linemen. These trades were the biggets mistakes of the Casserly era, because not only did the players not live up to the price we paid, but the cost us 4 picks in the we could have used on future starters and/or quality depth.

This year's draft has a number of solid interior lineman that can be had in the middle rounds. We should definitely be looking to add at least 2 (like we did at tackle last year), if we a truly committed to fixing this mess we call our offensive line.
I agree, for the most part. I don't think Pitts & Weary are all that... They aren't bad, but not where they should be.

I like Levi Brown..... he looks like a ZBS LT. But I don't know if we should spend a first on him.

Denver just traded the only OLman they've drafted in the first round in over a decade, which tells me it's possible to get quality LTs for this system in later rounds(as if Spencer wasn't enough evidence). It's even possble to find quality players for this system as undrafted free agents, like Eric Pears who was undrafted out of Colorado state in 2005, and started the last 10 games in 2006 for Denver, at LT. Tom Nalen... 7th round draft pick, who started 183 of 189 games since 1994, at Center. 4th round pick Ben Hamilton who's started every game since 2002 at LG.
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Old 03-03-2007   #11
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David's Busted Carr View Post
Is it just me or is our Offensive Line not as bad as people make it out to be? I mean injuries really hurt us last season, BUT still we have some talent:

Winston - should step up to start this season, possibly at RT
Weary - played well last year, start at RG
Flannigan - hurt last year, start at C
McKinney - soild backup G or C, can start if necessary
Pitts - best OL we have can start variety of spots
Salaam - great backup T insurance
Spencer - cannot be relied up due to injury

Not the best for sure, but it's not all doom and gloom. I really think we need to bite the bullett and draft a LT. Then even if Spencer comes back healthy you can put him at RT and move Winston to guard. More options are GOOD anyway.

If we could somehow get our hands on Joe Thomas.... or even Levi Brown...

That would be something completly different.

I guess you and McClain shared a doobie this morning and figgured out the '07 season. So what makes you think with this group you're going to get any more production...protection, than you got last year ? Kubiak and Smith are spinning our cap woes this moring, the wooing of two thiry somethings and a broke backed WR as positive signs that we're ok. I thought the turn about by the chronicles writters this morning was prety astounding myself. They didn't get this from no where. Someone is feeding them this. I just wish they'd come out and say it...we sux, we're in bad shape with the cap, and untill we take a season in the short hairs and get the cap monster in controll, it's pretty much going to be the same deal next year with wins and results. And yes chicken little the clouds are around our ears this morning. The proof is in the amount of spin. There are far too many holes in the rooster to get them all fixed in one off season. One part of the equation for some appears to be solved this morning...DC is moving on. The next part is what do you do with which hole(s) and when. The trouble for me is if they are spinning these free agents into starked improvements for the team...what else in their spin is just about as trust worthy ? The caliber of tallent on the o-line maybe ? What is shocking to me this morning is there are still some who'll be spoon feed the drivel and believe it. Mind Boggeling. The second clue is they are reporting this morning that they will go after one maybe two OTs in the draft. That reads to me that they are going to shot gun the OTs the second day and hope that they hit one.

The good news, that this is a great class to move down with in the draft. There is a lot of speed on the boards. A lot of tallent at every position between 8 and 141. It is conceivable that they fill four more holes this draft. That would put us closer to where everyone wants them to be.
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Last edited by threetoedpete; 03-03-2007 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 03-03-2007   #12
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

FWIW, the Chrons John McClain said yesterday on SR 610 that the Texans
have decided they are happy with Eric Winston as their RT after his play in
the latter part of last season, and expect him to be their guy at RT in 2007.
And I think we are in good shape in the interior, though starting to get long in the tooth for the future and more depth would be nice. And I'm not against upgrades if we can find it in our budget ?
But the big concern, as has been our history, is LT. And with the uncertainty
about the recovery from injury of last years LT Spencer, there is more of the
same for the future.
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Old 03-03-2007   #13
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
That would be something completly different.

I guess you and McClain shared a doobie this morning and figgured out the '07 season. So what makes you think with this group you're going to get any more production...protection, than you got last year ?
I'd be happy with last year's protection. As a team, we gave up 43 sacks. I'd like better, but we could expect a winning season with 43.

Dallas & Cincy gave up 37 & 36 sacks, and managed to get into the playoffs. Pittsburgh gave up 49 sacks, and they finished 8-8. So did St Louis(although in the NFC), and Seattle with 49 sacks won their division at 9-7, again in the NFC, and in a weak division.

I think the gap is closing in the AFC South. Indy won the SuperBowl, but they weren't the dominating team they used to be, and only went 3-3 in this division in '06.

& we are a lot closer to Jacksonville & Tennessee than many people want to admit.
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Old 03-03-2007   #14
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Wink [sarcasm]

The offensive line has been guilty, for five years straight, of making an elite Hall of Fame QB look bad.

How you can possibly prop them will get you the evil eye from fans of a certain QB. Tow the company line now, because it's always the offensive line's fault.

Sorry, my inner sarcasm got the best of me. Please carry on with a great thread.
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Old 03-03-2007   #15
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Winston- played like a rookie his first 2 games but played better toward the end. I think he will be RG next year.

Weary- Average if best. He will be replace.

Flangan- Worst play this season from start to his injury. I see him being cut.

Mckinney- Played good when he played. Should be consider starting next year if they resign him.

Pitts- Started off poorly but was very consistant in the 2nd half of the Season.

Spencers- Unknown... good when he played but didnt play much and how will we come back from injury?

They are below average overall last year. They started off slow and with injuries did the best they could. I see them drafting or signing a LT, Pitts, Mckinney, Winston and Spencer (if healthy)
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Old 03-03-2007   #16
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I'd be happy with last year's protection. As a team, we gave up 43 sacks. I'd like better, but we could expect a winning season with 43.

Dallas & Cincy gave up 37 & 36 sacks, and managed to get into the playoffs. Pittsburgh gave up 49 sacks, and they finished 8-8. So did St Louis(although in the NFC), and Seattle with 49 sacks won their division at 9-7, again in the NFC, and in a weak division.

I think the gap is closing in the AFC South. Indy won the SuperBowl, but they weren't the dominating team they used to be, and only went 3-3 in this division in '06.
& we are a lot closer to Jacksonville & Tennessee than many people want to admit.
It is a very bad mistake TK to interject parameters into future seasons based on circumstacnes that you have no way of knowing will repeat themseves...Like the Colts coming in here at the end of a season with a banged up D and we dink and dunk for four quarters with out a major mistake. We weren't the only ones who upset the colts down the strech. So how big of deal was it really ? The gap isn't closing, the Colts are aging and the cap numbers are getting to them. My book says we're way far behind them still. They can protect ther QB, we however can not. Titans get some speed to go with Vincent...we ain't catching them this season with our DBs.
It's very difficult to sweep anyone in back to back seasons. So how are you going to repeat 3-3 as you say. As always, I believe you absolutly dead wrong in your evaluation. We'll see.

So tell me again TK how much back up qbs make in the league again ?
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Old 03-03-2007   #17
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David's Busted Carr View Post
Funny how the Oline gets the blame for ALL the sacks Carr has taken, but alot of those sacks are on CARR. He takes way too long to get rid of the ball and in some cases just runs around back there like a chicken with his head cut off.

In fact I was watching an NFL insider show once and it compared the time of the release of a bunch of NFL QBs. Most of them were at 3-4 seconds and the ball was GONE. With Carr 6-7-8 and he's still running around with the ball. I'm sorry, but even the best OL can't block those HUGE defensive lineman forever!
So those 6, 7, and 8 second plays was the reason we switched to the "one step drop" offense in 2005? I think the next time this offensive line gives 8 seconds of protection will be the first. I realize Carr is as hated a figure as any recent athlete in Houston sports, but lets not make up lies about the rest of the team to better fit our ideas that DC is the only thing wrong with the Texans. This offensive line broke Carr, not the other way around.
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Old 03-03-2007   #18
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

I don't understand why David Carr and the O-linemen get all the blame for all the sacks. I think we should blame Freeney for some of that stuff!!!
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Old 03-03-2007   #19
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

If we can stay somewhat healthy they could be good enough. But what we really need is a bad@ss Running Back and not Lundy/Dayne...
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Old 03-03-2007   #20
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Default Re: Offensive line is NOT that bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
It is a very bad mistake TK to interject parameters into future seasons based on circumstacnes that you have no way of knowing will repeat themseves...
I see... But it's ok for you to interject that Vince will get speed at the reciever position??
Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Like the Colts coming in here at the end of a season with a banged up D and we dink and dunk for four quarters with out a major mistake. We weren't the only ones who upset the colts down the strech. So how big of deal was it really ? The gap isn't closing, the Colts are aging and the cap numbers are getting to them. My book says we're way far behind them still.
We weren't the only ones to upset them??
Colts are aging??
cap numbers getting to them??

Sounds like you agree with me, that they aren't as dominating as they once were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post

They can protect ther QB, we however can not.
We don't even know who our QB will be.... how do you know we can't protect him??
Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Titans get some speed to go with Vincent...we ain't catching them this season with our DBs.
this is the part I was talking about with you interjecting about things you have no clue... who will be starting in our secondary?? & who is this "speed" the Titans will acquire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
It's very difficult to sweep anyone in back to back seasons. So how are you going to repeat 3-3 as you say. As always, I believe you absolutly dead wrong in your evaluation. We'll see.
Did I say anything about sweeping the Jags?? did I even say we'll go 3-3 in our division?? there you go interjecting again
Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
So tell me again TK how much back up qbs make in the league again ?
$2mill on the high end, why, you looking for a job??
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