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Old 02-28-2007   #1
David's Busted Carr
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Default Position importance scale?

I was listening to the NFL Network on Sirius on my way to work this morning. This is a national broadcast so they have no biased opinions (which is nice). I just happened to be listening when a guy called in from Houston.

His question was assuming Peterson & Thomas are not available when we pick, most likely our decision will come down to LaRon Landry vs. Amobe Okoye. Both of the radio guys agreed with that. Then the caller asked which of the those guys would be a better pick and both of the radio guys said Okoye WITHOUT A DOUBT. (Keep in mind this was today AFTER Landry's steller combine).

They mentioned something about a "position importance scale" where there is a premium place on certain positions over others. And in this case a DT with Okoye's ability is "much harder to find" than a safety.

I was wondering how much stock teams actually put into that? I'm guessing quite a bit since that is why we chose Mario over Reggie last year. The Texans viewed Mario as a much more "rare and hard to find" talent than Reggie Bush.

So how would you rate the positions in order of importance vs. the ability to find premium players at the respective positions?

1) OT
2) QB
3) DE
4) CB
5) OG
6) DT

??? What do you guys think?
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Old 02-28-2007   #2
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

I would replace QB and CB on that list. I would consider an elite CB "harder to come by" than a QB.
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Old 02-28-2007   #3
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

1. Qb
1. Qb
1. Qb

2. Ot
3. De
4. Cb
5. Olb
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Old 02-28-2007   #4
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

1)qb
2) Cb
3)lt
4)cb
5) De
6) Mlb
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Old 02-28-2007   #5
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

qb
cb
lt
de
rb
lb
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Old 02-28-2007   #6
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

1. Qb
2. Ot
3. Dt/de
4. Og/c
5. Cb
6. Rb
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Old 02-28-2007   #7
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

If you have CB anywhere past three your list is wrong....LOL
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Old 02-28-2007   #8
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
If you have CB anywhere past three your list is wrong....LOL
I disagree. You can't coach speed, but you can't coach size, either. Elite DE's (similar to elite left tackles) have that extremely rare combination of size, speed, quickness, and strength. Elite cornerbacks are slightly easier to find, IMO, than freaks of nature like Mario Williams or Julius Peppers.
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Old 02-28-2007   #9
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
If you have CB anywhere past three your list is wrong....LOL
Like when the Steelers won the Super Bowl with Ike Taylor as a starting CB, and the Colts with Jason David? CB's can be masked by a good front 4 and pressure on the QB, but give a QB time and all CB's will eventually get beat.

Look at the ProBowl corners: Champ Bailey (not in playoffs), Rasheen Mathis (not in playoffs), Ronde Barber (not in playoffs), DeAngelo Hall (not in playoffs). You can also add 2 more higly regarded corners in Pac Man Jones and Nate Clemets to that list, neither of which made the playoffs. Asante Samuel and Chris McAllister are the only two great CB's that even made the playoffs, and neither got to the Super Bowl.
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Old 02-28-2007   #10
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

Took a little more general approach to it.
1. QB
2. RB
3. CB
4. OL
5. DL
6. LB
7. WR
8. S
9. TE/FB
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Old 02-28-2007   #11
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

franchise QB's trump everything (reason why Texans cannot pass on Brady Quinn if he is still on the board @ #8) but after that its OT, DE & CB.

Tackles

2007 #2 Joe Thomas Detorit Wisconsin?

2006 #4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson Jets Virginia

2005 #13 Jammal Brown Saints Oklahoma

2004 #2 Robert Gallery Raiders Iowa

2003 #8 Jordan Gross Panthers Utah

2002 #4 Mike Williams Bills Texas

2001 #2 Leonard Davis Cardinals Texas

2000 #3 Chris Samuels Redskins Alabama

1999 #14 John Tait Chiefs Brigham Young

1998 #7 Kyle Turley Saints San Diego State

1997 #1 Orlando Pace Rams Ohio State

1996 #4 Jonathan Ogden Ravens UCLA

1995 #2 Tony Boselli Jaguars USC

1994 #14 Bernard Williams Eagles Georgia

1993 #8 Willie Roaf Saints Louisiana Tech

1992 #8 Bob Whitfield Falcons Stanford

1991 #7 Charles McRae Buccaneers Tennessee

1990 #9 Richmond Webb Dolphins Texas A&M

1989 #2 Tony Mandarich Packers Michigan State

1988 #4 Paul Gruber Buccaneers Wisconsin

1987 #15 John Clay Raiders Missouri

1986 #6 Jim Dombrowski Saints Virginia

1985 #2 Bill Fralic Falcons Pittsburgh

1984 #5 Mark Adickes Chiefs Baylor

1984 #2 Dean Steinkuhler Oilers Nebraska

1983 #4 Chris Hinton Broncos Northwestern
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Old 02-28-2007   #12
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyP View Post
I disagree. You can't coach speed, but you can't coach size, either. Elite DE's (similar to elite left tackles) have that extremely rare combination of size, speed, quickness, and strength. Elite cornerbacks are slightly easier to find, IMO, than freaks of nature like Mario Williams or Julius Peppers.
So you'd rather have Julius Peppers than Champ Bailey ?

Yeah, you're right...top notch Corners are all over the place, and good DE's aren't....

please come back to reality.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
Like when the Steelers won the Super Bowl with Ike Taylor as a starting CB, and the Colts with Jason David? CB's can be masked by a good front 4 and pressure on the QB, but give a QB time and all CB's will eventually get beat.
I never said they couldn't be masked...But if you have a lock down corner you don't need as much of a pass rush...

A lock down corner can almost completely eliminate a reciever from the offense....A good Pass rush takes into account the whole D-line which isn't a fair comparison...unless you want to compare a good pass rush to a good secondary....

I'll take the secondary....
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Old 02-28-2007   #13
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
franchise QB's trump everything (reason why Texans cannot pass on Brady Quinn if he is still on the board @ #8) but after that its OT, DE & CB.

Tackles

2007 #2 Joe Thomas Detorit Wisconsin?

2006 #4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson Jets Virginia

2005 #13 Jammal Brown Saints Oklahoma

2004 #2 Robert Gallery Raiders Iowa

2003 #8 Jordan Gross Panthers Utah

2002 #4 Mike Williams Bills Texas

2001 #2 Leonard Davis Cardinals Texas

2000 #3 Chris Samuels Redskins Alabama

1999 #14 John Tait Chiefs Brigham Young

1998 #7 Kyle Turley Saints San Diego State

1997 #1 Orlando Pace Rams Ohio State

1996 #4 Jonathan Ogden Ravens UCLA

1995 #2 Tony Boselli Jaguars USC

1994 #14 Bernard Williams Eagles Georgia

1993 #8 Willie Roaf Saints Louisiana Tech

1992 #8 Bob Whitfield Falcons Stanford

1991 #7 Charles McRae Buccaneers Tennessee

1990 #9 Richmond Webb Dolphins Texas A&M

1989 #2 Tony Mandarich Packers Michigan State

1988 #4 Paul Gruber Buccaneers Wisconsin

1987 #15 John Clay Raiders Missouri

1986 #6 Jim Dombrowski Saints Virginia

1985 #2 Bill Fralic Falcons Pittsburgh

1984 #5 Mark Adickes Chiefs Baylor

1984 #2 Dean Steinkuhler Oilers Nebraska

1983 #4 Chris Hinton Broncos Northwestern
If they could pass on Leinart and Young, they can easily pass on Quinn, and I hope they do, because you can improve this team significantly by adding someone like Brown, Okoye or Landry, while Quinn just does not impress me.

Here is to hoping AP falls to 8.
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Old 02-28-2007   #14
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
Look at the ProBowl corners: Champ Bailey (not in playoffs), Rasheen Mathis (not in playoffs), Ronde Barber (not in playoffs), DeAngelo Hall (not in playoffs). You can also add 2 more higly regarded corners in Pac Man Jones and Nate Clemets to that list, neither of which made the playoffs. Asante Samuel and Chris McAllister are the only two great CB's that even made the playoffs, and neither got to the Super Bowl.

O.k....


Since you want to use that asanine approach, the next time the Titans win a game VY gets ALL the credit....
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Old 02-28-2007   #15
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
If they could pass on Leinart and Young, they can easily pass on Quinn, and I hope they do, because you can improve this team significantly by adding someone like Brown, Okoye or Landry, while Quinn just does not impress me.

Here is to hoping AP falls to 8.
who knows? I've never been able to pick the Texans 1st rounder anyway but I don't see how they could pass on BQ if he is still available given the QB free agent market, drop off after BQ and the demise of David franchise
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Old 02-28-2007   #16
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
So you'd rather have Julius Peppers than Champ Bailey ?
Obviously, I'd want them both. However, if I had a top-three pick and they were both available in the same draft, I'd give the edge to Peppers.
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Old 02-28-2007   #17
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

get enough pressure from your front 4, and your corners' play isn't that important at all.

1: QB
2: NT
3: LT
4: DE
5: MLB
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Old 02-28-2007   #18
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Obviously, I'd want them both. However, if I had a top-three pick and they were both available in the same draft, I'd give the edge to Peppers.
I can't fault you for having that opinion...They're both phenomenal players...

But think about how many good pass rushing DE's there have been compared to lockdown corners....

Trust me when I say a Lock Down corner is probably one of THE most valued things in the NFL behind QB, and LT....
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Old 02-28-2007   #19
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get enough pressure from your front 4, and your corners' play isn't that important at all.
You are comparing the rush of the whole front four to a corner back ?
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Old 02-28-2007   #20
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Default Re: Position importance scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
I can't fault you for having that opinion...They're both phenomenal players...

But think about how many good pass rushing DE's there have been compared to lockdown corners....

Trust me when I say a Lock Down corner is probably one of THE most valued things in the NFL behind QB, and LT....
and yet there's never been a "lockdown corner" drafted #1 overall. that should tell you all you need to know about how NFL teams value that position vs. defensive ends.
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