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Old 02-24-2007   #1
NATHANHALE
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Default Show your support for the OL

OK, so the OL is by no means perfect, but it certainly does not deserve all the blame for sacks/protection. Despite all the injuries last year and everything 'new,' the OL reduced sacks by over a third.

Despite this improvement, our QB regressed as the season went along. In fact, we avg less than 2 sacks per game in 11 of our 16 games.

Without a doubt, Carr supporters will never be happy with the OL-even with 0 sacks- why? IMO, it's because they do not understand the QBs role in the protection/pocket scheme of things. We keep hearing that Carr is just 1 person...true...but he does have a role to perform with the other 10 team mates on the field to make things work--allowing him not to be a part of the blame when things don't works assumes he is 'mistake' free and does not belong in the team process of contributing to making plays work.

Bottom line, the OL got better last year. If they continue to improve next year, we should be close to where we need to be in the 'sack' scheme of things. However, if he is still here, that is no guarantee of what Carr's play will be...
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Old 02-24-2007   #2
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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Yep.. We went from the 32nd rated to the 27th. " If they continue to improve " as you stated that will improve our teams chance to finally have a winning record.
That and stats don't tell the whole story. Just go back and watch the tape of 5 guys routinely beat by 4-man rushes and then come back and tell me how good they are. I even saw Carr pressured with a 3 man rush last year, and no it wasn't because Carr held the ball too long. The absolute worst is the amount of pressure up the middle. I remember seeing a DT shoot an interior gap into the backfield only slightly behind the rate at which Carr dropped back so that when Carr's foot hit the ground on Carr's third step there was nothing he could do but tuck the ball for a sack, otherwise he would risk a turnover.
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Old 02-24-2007   #3
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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Yep.. We went from the 32nd rated to the 27th. " If they continue to improve " as you stated that will improve our teams chance to finally have a winning record.
seeing how we had a pretty dang good chance at having a winning record in '06, I'd say yeah.

I'm watching the first Jacksonville game right now, and I just saw two sacks, that most likely credited to the offensive line, even though no offensive lineman was responsible for the sack, but there was no one else to blame.

On one, they didn't show blitz, but Jax sent a Corner & a LB from the left side, and their MLB blitzed right up the middle. Salaam was successfully blocking a DE, and Pitts was singled up on the DT. The Center, RG, and RT did a good job with the three pass rushers on their side.

David took a nice 5 step drop, made his reads, and was throwing the ball to Owen Daniels(12 yards from the LOS) as David was hit by one of two free blitzers from his left.

Samkon Gado was the lone back, 3 recievers, 1 TE. Like I said, the Jags didn't show blitz, so it made perfect sense for Gado to release into the Flats. I can't blame any Texan for that sack, but a good call by Jax, and a fast LB.

IMHO, the line looked lost in '05. from one end to the other, I didn't think they knew what they were supposed to be doing from one play to the other. I would say there was definite improvement in that area in '06. I'm really looking forward to see Pitts, McKinney, Weary, & Winston build on what they did at the end of '06.
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Old 02-24-2007   #4
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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Originally Posted by NATHANHALE View Post
OK, so the OL is by no means perfect, but it certainly does not deserve all the blame for sacks/protection. Despite all the injuries last year and everything 'new,' the OL reduced sacks by over a third.

Despite this improvement, our QB regressed as the season went along. In fact, we avg less than 2 sacks per game in 11 of our 16 games.

Without a doubt, Carr supporters will never be happy with the OL-even with 0 sacks- why? IMO, it's because they do not understand the QBs role in the protection/pocket scheme of things. We keep hearing that Carr is just 1 person...true...but he does have a role to perform with the other 10 team mates on the field to make things work--allowing him not to be a part of the blame when things don't works assumes he is 'mistake' free and does not belong in the team process of contributing to making plays work.

Bottom line, the OL got better last year. If they continue to improve next year, we should be close to where we need to be in the 'sack' scheme of things. However, if he is still here, that is no guarantee of what Carr's play will be...
I agree with your statement. You know the reason why Vince took a 0-5 team to a 9-7 team? He brought confidence back to the offensive line by saying, "look if you want to win stay if you don't leave." He said something similar to that, but because of that they improved and did better. Carr supporters say draft offensive line, but why you guys will just blame the new guys because they are learning the NFL style of play. I am surprised that an offensive lineman is not reading these posts by Carr supporters and getting ticked off by them even though they did good last season. Just remember Kubiak yelled at the defense for not doing good. He didn't yell at the offense.........

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Old 02-24-2007   #5
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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I agree with your statement. You know the reason why Vince took a 0-5 team to a 9-7 team? He brought confidence back to the offensive line by saying, "look if you want to win stay if you don't leave." He said something similar to that, but because of that they improved and did better. Carr supporters say draft offensive line, but why you guys will just blame the new guys because they are learning the NFL style of play. I am surprised that an offensive lineman is not reading these posts by Carr supporters and getting ticked off by them even though they did good last season. Just remember Kubiak yelled at the defense for not doing good. He didn't yell at the offense.........

I said this in another thread. The thin "line" between a good line and bad line is sometimes the man pulling the trigger. It happened in Tenn. this year and it happened in Dallas. O-lines that got beat up in the media and then miraculously improved with a new QB in the picture. I won't go on and on but if you watch Brady in a game or even what Rosenfels did in the game where we almost came back...one side step to buy one extra second is the difference between a sack and a completion. Some people can just make that extra move. Brady in the Colts game seemed to have all day in the first half but I watched many of the replays and there were many times where the end beat the tackle but when they reached out their paws Brady would either slide into the pocket or to one side and the hands would miss them. It makes a big difference.
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Old 02-24-2007   #6
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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Originally Posted by caddy View Post
Yep.. We went from the 32nd rated to the 27th. " If they continue to improve " as you stated that will improve our teams chance to finally have a winning record.
We were tied for 23rd in '06 (not sure what yr you were looking at), an improvement of 9 spots. However, we only threw more tds than 1 team below us with more sacks. Here are the teams below us in sacks with passing tds in ()...

Rams 49(24)/Lions 63(21)/Pitt 49(23)/Seattle 49(26)/Browns54(15)/Bills47(19)Raiders72(07)Atlanta47(21)...Minn43(13) Texans43(14)

...so, despite the significant improvement by the OL, our QB actually threw fewer tds(11) in '06 than '05!..Carr is great/ol sucks?

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Old 02-24-2007   #7
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

Obviously this thread was designed to be another bash Carr thread. Anyone that watched the Tennessee game knows that Vince Young had about 3 times the amount of time as Carr did in the pocket. That's a simple fact.

If Carr does leave, who are you guys going to blame everything on? He could be gone for 3 years and you would say, "the other players picked up those bad habits from Carr."
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Old 02-24-2007   #8
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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Obviously this thread was designed to be another bash Carr thread. Anyone that watched the Tennessee game knows that Vince Young had about 3 times the amount of time as Carr did in the pocket. That's a simple fact.

If Carr does leave, who are you guys going to blame everything on? He could be gone for 3 years and you would say, "the other players picked up those bad habits from Carr."
JMO, but I believe a new QB will do wonders for the team, so what will the homers say? if it's like what they did when Caper's 5 yr plan went bye-bye, they'll disappear...
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Old 02-24-2007   #9
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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I said this in another thread. The thin "line" between a good line and bad line is sometimes the man pulling the trigger. It happened in Tenn. this year and it happened in Dallas. O-lines that got beat up in the media and then miraculously improved with a new QB in the picture. I won't go on and on but if you watch Brady in a game or even what Rosenfels did in the game where we almost came back...one side step to buy one extra second is the difference between a sack and a completion. Some people can just make that extra move. Brady in the Colts game seemed to have all day in the first half but I watched many of the replays and there were many times where the end beat the tackle but when they reached out their paws Brady would either slide into the pocket or to one side and the hands would miss them. It makes a big difference.
There is also a difference between having to avoid one defender occasionally and having to avoid multiple defenders almost all the time.
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Old 02-24-2007   #10
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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I agree with your statement. You know the reason why Vince took a 0-5 team to a 9-7 team?
And of course the defense and the running game had nothing to do with their record at all.
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Old 02-24-2007   #11
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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Originally Posted by Spled View Post
Obviously this thread was designed to be another bash Carr thread. Anyone that watched the Tennessee game knows that Vince Young had about 3 times the amount of time as Carr did in the pocket. That's a simple fact.

If Carr does leave, who are you guys going to blame everything on? He could be gone for 3 years and you would say, "the other players picked up those bad habits from Carr."
No, it was made to point out the reality of pro football and to show that there is a responsibility of many when it comes to time in the pocket and sacks. VY didn't have 3 times the amount of time. His line was horrible to start the season and their backs got nowhere. Once he took over Henry's average skyrocketed and the line problems weren't as pronounced. It happens on every team when a guy comes in that can work the pocket.

If he leaves people will wish everyone well. What's going to happen if the new guy does well?Are people going to say that the line al of sudden was better than when Carr was here?It works both ways.
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Old 02-24-2007   #12
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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Once he took over Henry's average skyrocketed and the line problems weren't as pronounced.
Young contributed to the running game's rejuvenation, but the other thing was the Titans changing their plan as well. Henry didn't even play at all in two of the 4 games before Young took over and only had a total of 30 carries. A big piece of the improvement for the running game was anointing Henry the starter (same week as Young) at RB and stop mucking around with White and Brown as much.
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Old 02-24-2007   #13
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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Young contributed to the running game's rejuvenation, but the other thing was the Titans changing their plan as well. Henry didn't even play at all in two of the 4 games before Young took over and only had a total of 30 carries. A big piece of the improvement for the running game was anointing Henry the starter (same week as Young) at RB and stop mucking around with White and Brown as much.
I'll agree with that helping too. Their RBBC was getting in the way. I really just wanted to point out that sometimes a teams problems are more than just one piece or area and that there is a constribution from all in the sack blame game. I used Brady as an example earlier. If you watch some of their games it looks like he has all day because of how he looks in the pocket. There are some games, however, where I see an end beat the tackle and come off the edge but he is ahead of the game and steps up or slides to the side and basically the end whiffs or is out of reach. Those are little things that buy a second and a completion and make a line look a little better.
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Old 02-24-2007   #14
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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If Carr does leave, who are you guys going to blame everything on? He could be gone for 3 years and you would say, "the other players picked up those bad habits from Carr."
And what are the Carr fans going to say if some scrub comes in here and everything clicks? You're going to say, "See, we finally fix the line and a scrub can do it" or something similar.

Carr has had his opportunity. There were many times this year when he made the wrong plays. And those wrong plays resulted in sacks, turnovers, and plays that left yards on the field. If you go back and watch the games, he had lots of time on many occasions and he rarely took advantage of it.

Sure, everybody makes mistakes. Any QB we bring in here is going to make mistakes, misreads, and poor throws. But we need someone who doesn't mess up on a consistent basis. We are THAT close to being a decent team and we can't afford those kinds of mistakes.
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Old 02-24-2007   #15
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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And what are the Carr fans going to say if some scrub comes in here and everything clicks? You're going to say, "See, we finally fix the line and a scrub can do it" or something similar.
Carr has had his opportunity. There were many times this year when he made the wrong plays. And those wrong plays resulted in sacks, turnovers, and plays that left yards on the field. If you go back and watch the games, he had lots of time on many occasions and he rarely took advantage of it.

Sure, everybody makes mistakes. Any QB we bring in here is going to make mistakes, misreads, and poor throws. But we need someone who doesn't mess up on a consistent basis. We are THAT close to being a decent team and we can't afford those kinds of mistakes.
That's been my prediction and I said it earlier today on one of these crazy posts. There will be many who will pull the "why wasn't that line here when he played."
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Old 02-24-2007   #16
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

Funny how bad the Cowboys line was while Bledsoe was the QB. It wasn't so much of a problem with Romo at QB.

A 2 part question for the guys that break down the film around here....

1. How long does it usually take for Carr to get rid of the ball after the ball has been snapped?
2. How long does that compare to the other QB's?
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Old 02-24-2007   #17
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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Funny how bad the Cowboys line was while Bledsoe was the QB. It wasn't so much of a problem with Romo at QB.A 2 part question for the guys that break down the film around here....

1. How long does it usually take for Carr to get rid of the ball after the ball has been snapped?
2. How long does that compare to the other QB's?
Been sayin that all day. Its incredible what the right person can do.
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Old 02-24-2007   #18
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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Funny how bad the Cowboys line was while Bledsoe was the QB. It wasn't so much of a problem with Romo at QB.

A 2 part question for the guys that break down the film around here....

1. How long does it usually take for Carr to get rid of the ball after the ball has been snapped?
2. How long does that compare to the other QB's?
Yes those are all good points. I just wonder if some people understand football and just want to blame others because its easier.......
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Old 02-24-2007   #19
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

It is very simple people.

Oline and Dline- If the guy is better then you and whipping your tail, he is better then you are. That happened a lot last year, I mean my goodness, one of the sacks last year came on a screen!

Have they gotten better, yes, but it is far from saying it is fine and dandy.

I love all those guys up front and I hope they are working hard for next year.
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Old 02-24-2007   #20
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Default Re: Show your support for the OL

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It is very simple people.

Oline and Dline- If the guy is better then you and whipping your tail, he is better then you are. That happened a lot last year, I mean my goodness, one of the sacks last year came on a screen!

Have they gotten better, yes, but it is far from saying it is fine and dandy.

I love all those guys up front and I hope they are working hard for next year.
come on..don't sugarcoat it. we, as Houston Texan fans, expect far better from these guys than they give us. They get paid VERY well to go out as a team and deliver a W. But, what we get is embarrassment on national TV by getting crushed 40-7 by the Patriots. With all the money these guys make, for them not to be able to go out and put the ball across the goal line is just pathetic. I am a HUGE Texans fan, but I find it difficult to not be critical of them when I think about the 5 years we have had to get this thing right, and yet, it's STILL a work in progress. Come on guys, get it together.
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