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Old 02-15-2007   #1
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Default If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

Lets say the draft went like this:

1. Oakland - CJ
2. Detroit - Anderson
3. Cleveland - AP
4. Tampa on the clock

Would you consider trading the #8 + David Carr for Joe Thomas? (I don't know if thats fair)
What if it was DC + #8 + #70 (or whatever our 3rd rounder is) for Thomas?
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Old 02-15-2007   #2
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

carr is a perfect fit for gruden's offense, i'm sure he'd be very intrigued with a Carr + #8 trade. but then again, they really need someone like joe thomas. maybe they'll risk taking okoye at #8.
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Old 02-15-2007   #3
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Lets say the draft went like this:

1. Oakland - CJ
2. Detroit - Anderson
3. Cleveland - AP
4. Tampa on the clock

Would you consider trading the #8 + David Carr for Joe Thomas? (I don't know if thats fair)
What if it was DC + #8 + #70 (or whatever our 3rd rounder is) for Thomas?
This thread should be "If Joe Thomas fell to 4", not 5, since Arizona is 5 and it would probably take a trade including DeMeco, Mario, Drob and the rest of our draft picks to have them give up Joe Thomas. Right now the entire state of Arizona (or the part of it that cares about the Cards) is praying Matt Millen goes crazy on draft day again.

And there is no way the #8 pick and Carr could get you the #4 pick....this isn't Madden.
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Old 02-15-2007   #4
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

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Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
This thread should be "If Joe Thomas fell to 4", not 5, since Arizona is 5 and it would probably take a trade including DeMeco, Mario, Drob and the rest of our draft picks to have them give up Joe Thomas. Right now the entire state of Arizona (or the part of it that cares about the Cards) is praying Matt Millen goes crazy on draft day again.

And there is no way the #8 pick and Carr could get you the #4 pick....this isn't Madden.
kinda going overboard there. there are thoughts that thomas wouldn't even be a good fit in arizona as matt leinart's left tackle.
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Old 02-15-2007   #5
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Lets say the draft went like this:

1. Oakland - CJ
2. Detroit - Anderson
3. Cleveland - AP
4. Tampa on the clock

Would you consider trading the #8 + David Carr for Joe Thomas? (I don't know if thats fair)
What if it was DC + #8 + #70 (or whatever our 3rd rounder is) for Thomas?
If Tampa takes Carr and the #8 pick, I'd say that would be a steal.

If we gave up a 3rd round with it, I'd say we are giving up too much and should stay at #8.

We can probably pick up some offensive lineman without having to give up a third rounder in the process.
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Old 02-15-2007   #6
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

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Originally Posted by kastofsna View Post
kinda going overboard there. there are thoughts that thomas wouldn't even be a good fit in arizona as matt leinart's left tackle.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...eamreports.htm

On second read kast...where did you see, hear this ?

I agree, USAtodays football section has a nice section on team needs. Not saying never with anything that involves the draft. What I will say after reading the "team needs" there last night, Oakland, Detroit, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, and Arizona could all use the guy. All have train wrecked o-lines. I thought the Texans were bad. But at least the Texans have three guys we can count on, Pitts, Weary and Eric. Some of the top five are just plain hurt. They've got holes everywhere. Free agents on the o-line do not work. To answer you're question, yes, if he gets by the three you make a move for the guy. He's that good a prospect. Not just in this year...but any year. I've been posting that thought for two drafts now. Joe Thomas is an elite of the elite type propspect.


The big question in my mind this draft is with the dearth of OLTs on the board...will one of those teams take Levi Brown who is a top fifteen tallent, IMHO, with a top six pick ? Are the next ten prospects so low, that you pull a trigger on that need before there is no one left on the shelf to start for you untill the '08 draft ? I think BPA will go out the window with someone looking to make an instant impact. I mean if getting a better than servicable OLT propsect can jump you from double digit lossed to a shot at the palyoffs, wouldn't you make that move ? Unless Matt Millon's brain gets vapor lock over Calvin Johnson...Joe Thomas should go to Detroit at the 2. That would reduce thier o-line woes to finding a couple of gaurds or getting the guys they have healthy for next season. They won't catch the bears, but they should challenge for a play off spot with a top ten o-line. They can find a RB in the mid rounds to hold down the fort. Again the next question is with all the QBs on the board, the running back, the instant run stuffing DT and the DE's, do you reach five spots to high and take Levi Brown, a good but not elite OLT ? Tune in NFL fans gonna be fun.

Detroit:
Quote:
And Marinelli found out the hard way what he has and what he lacks in terms of talent. Injuries took a heavy toll and probably skewed the evaluation process; 10 full- or part-time starters finished the season on injured reserve, including three of the four defensive line starters, five players who started at one time or another on the offensive line, and Kevin Jones, the best running back.
Quote:
OFFENSIVE LINE: Starters — LT Jeff Backus, LG Ross Verba, C Dominic Raiola, RG Damien Woody, RT Rex Tucker. Backups — G Frank Davis, T Jonathan Scott, T Clint Stickdorn, G Stephen Peterman, G/T Barry Stokes, G Rick DeMulling, C Dave Pearson, G Blaine Saipaia.

The Lions gambled that they could get a season out of three free agents with a history of injuries and lost, big time. Verba, Tucker and Stokes all finished the season on injured reserve with a grand total of 23 starts among them, including 11 by Stokes. And if that wasn't bad enough, even the backups were beset with injuries, leaving the Lions with a patchwork line that included Davis, an undrafted free agent, Peterman, a player signed off the practice squad, and Stickdorn, who had been cut from the practice squad earlier in the season, at the end of the season. Backus and Raiola played reasonably well but the revolving door lineup at the other three positions left the Lions ineffective in every way. They could not pass protect well (Kitna was sacked a league-high 63 times) and their run-blocking was good for an average of only 3.7 yards per carry with the least-productive ground game in the NFL. The offensive line will get major attention in the off-season.
That sounds kinda familuar huh ?
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Old 02-15-2007   #7
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

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Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
This thread should be "If Joe Thomas fell to 4", not 5, since Arizona is 5 and it would probably take a trade including DeMeco, Mario, Drob and the rest of our draft picks to have them give up Joe Thomas. Right now the entire state of Arizona (or the part of it that cares about the Cards) is praying Matt Millen goes crazy on draft day again.

And there is no way the #8 pick and Carr could get you the #4 pick....this isn't Madden.
First off, the thread should and does read if Thomas fell to 4, because thats who we would trade with. We have no one to give that Arizona would want, so as long as Thomas falls to 4, then wwe could trade with Tampa. You don't trade with the team that really wants to draft the guy you want. Then you give up way too much. You trade with the team 1 spot above.

Secondly, I don't think Carr and the #8 for #4 is that crazy. The #8 spot is worth 1400 points, the #4 is worth 1800 points. Thats a difference of 400 points, or a mid to low 2nd round choice. We probably couldn't get that for Carr, but thats why I also included the optional 3rd in there. I"ve heard that the Texans are seeking somewhere between a 2-6, with ocnditions. Maybe we could give them Carr + 8 for #4, with a conditional pick in the 3rd round next year. If Carr plays 75% of games, we keep pick. If he plays 50% of games, itst a 4th. If he plays <50% of games, they get the 3rd.


It annoys me a lot when people say "This isn't madden" Do a litttle reearch or read the whole post before you toss out someones suggestion as totally crazy
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Old 02-15-2007   #8
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

I doubt Tampa would select Thomas so he would probably fall to 5. Therefore you want to trade with Tampa, in order to get Thomas...not the Cards...if Thomas is who they really want...they'd be less likely to trade or would want a lot more than their pick is 'worth'...as gtexan was talking about.

#4 pick= 1800
#8 pick= 1400

Carr has been rumored worth as much as a 3rd or 4th pick (Tampa's 3rd and 4th respectively are worth 250 and 100. Thats a big difference. Our 3rd and 4th are woth 230 and 86)

So if Tampa would be willing to give us only a 4th rder for Carr. But wants our 1st and 3rd rders....those points would be roughly...1730pts. Points wise its not worth their #4 but if I was tampa i would do it. The would get a QB to go with Simms and Gratkowski. An extra 3rd...and with the 8th pick they could probably get Amobi Okoye who gruden loves. I think he's tempted to take Okoye 4th overall but doubt he would. This would be a dream situation for tampa bay imo.

As far as Houston goes...I would not make the trade. i doubt anyone gives us a 3rd for carr..prob. a 4th though..there is too big a drop off. Also i think we need as many picks as possible. we'd lose that pick plus the cap hit of trading carr. (which we may have to take anyway). It might be me avoiding the LT position again....like we did for the past 4 years.. but i just assume take levi brown hopefully w/ a trade down. but who knows

Thomas is so tempting though. He could be the key guy we need to really solidify our offense. I wouldn't be upset if we make that deal but me personally probably maybe kinda sorta wouldnt do it.
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Old 02-15-2007   #9
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I doubt Tampa would select Thomas so he would probably fall to 5. Therefore you want to trade with Tampa, in order to get Thomas...not the Cards...if Thomas is who they really want...they'd be less likely to trade or would want a lot more than their pick is 'worth'...as gtexan was talking about.

#4 pick= 1800
#8 pick= 1400

Carr has been rumored worth as much as a 3rd or 4th pick (Tampa's 3rd and 4th respectively are worth 250 and 100. Thats a big difference. Our 3rd and 4th are woth 230 and 86)

So if Tampa would be willing to give us only a 4th rder for Carr. But wants our 1st and 3rd rders....those points would be roughly...1730pts. Points wise its not worth their #4 but if I was tampa i would do it. The would get a QB to go with Simms and Gratkowski. An extra 3rd...and with the 8th pick they could probably get Amobi Okoye who gruden loves. I think he's tempted to take Okoye 4th overall but doubt he would. This would be a dream situation for tampa bay imo.

As far as Houston goes...I would not make the trade. i doubt anyone gives us a 3rd for carr..prob. a 4th though..there is too big a drop off. Also i think we need as many picks as possible. we'd lose that pick plus the cap hit of trading carr. (which we may have to take anyway). It might be me avoiding the LT position again....like we did for the past 4 years.. but i just assume take levi brown hopefully w/ a trade down. but who knows

Thomas is so tempting though. He could be the key guy we need to really solidify our offense. I wouldn't be upset if we make that deal but me personally probably maybe kinda sorta wouldnt do it.
1) Joe Thomas will be playing in Detroit next season.
2) Gruden's trying to save his job, so he will take CJ. Best Player Available.
3) Cleveland flips a coin and takes AD over Brady Quinn.
4) Arizona has the offense (minus the line)...Thomas is gone...they take Gaines Adams instead
5) Washington wants a future Bruce Smith...Jamaal Anderson fits here.
6) Minnesota wants to improve passing game...STILL...Teddy G goes here
7) The allure of Brady Quinn is too much for Gary to pass up. He makes the obvious choice and goes with Quinn
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Old 02-15-2007   #10
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

1) Joe Thomas will be playing in Detroit next season. Good Possibility, if not they could go Quinn or DLine
2) Gruden's trying to save his job, so he will take CJ. Best Player Available.CJ is BPA in the draft, if not for Oak's need for a QB, CJ should be picked by the bucs if there, too good to pass up but should get offers and gruden would love to trade down for okoye imo
3) Cleveland flips a coin and takes AD over Brady Quinn.Cle loves JR, Quinn is a possibility, AP is def the sexy pick and they need a rushing attack, could go oline, or d-line, branch would be the perfect fit but doubt they do it.
4) Arizona has the offense (minus the line)...Thomas is gone...they take Gaines Adams insteado-line needs help for leinart, james, and the receivers, good pick with adams but anderson is just as much a possibility
5) Washington wants a future Bruce Smith...Jamaal Anderson fits here.with all other players gone anderson is probably bpa
6) Minnesota wants to improve passing game...STILL...Teddy G goes here #7 should be too high for Ginn but wouldn't surprise me if he goes here. He needs to work on his route running hardcore...but he's fast and Minn. will probably hope that will do it for them
7) The allure of Brady Quinn is too much for Gary to pass up. He makes the obvious choice and goes with Quinn i can see kubiak liking quinn but would hope smith entertains all trade offers. i dont think the choice is so obvious as you do though. i wouldnt be upset w/ this pick seeing AP, JR, and JT gone...but would kinda hope we finish off the defense since this draft is heavy w/ d. branch, okoye, willis, revis, hall, landry, nelson all available although 8 may be high for some. only offense available is brown besides quinn. this would be a very interesting decision should it come to this.

And that's all assuming that Oakland takes Russell over Johnson. They need that QB bad but the JR pick is not a 100% lock like everyone is making it out to be-could be 2006 all over again.
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Old 02-15-2007   #11
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

With no left tackle on the roster opening day, Quinn wrecks his knee in his first start and begins his decent on the texan's message baord as the second most defiled caracter since David Carr. The more things change the more they stay the same. Gig 'Em. It don't work in the NFL without an o-line. You build in the nfl form the inside out.
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Old 02-15-2007   #12
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

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Originally Posted by Navy_Chris View Post
1) Joe Thomas will be playing in Detroit next season.
2) Gruden's trying to save his job, so he will take CJ. Best Player Available.
3) Cleveland flips a coin and takes AD over Brady Quinn.
4) Arizona has the offense (minus the line)...Thomas is gone...they take Gaines Adams instead
5) Washington wants a future Bruce Smith...Jamaal Anderson fits here.
6) Minnesota wants to improve passing game...STILL...Teddy G goes here
7) The allure of Brady Quinn is too much for Gary to pass up. He makes the obvious choice and goes with Quinn
Didnt we already learn this lesson with Carr?

You build an O-line first then you bring in a franchise QB.

If we did it backwards again it would have the same results.
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Old 02-15-2007   #13
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

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I doubt Tampa would select Thomas
stop right there. they'd LOVE to have him.
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Old 02-15-2007   #14
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

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stop right there. they'd LOVE to have him.
no doubt they'd love to have him but what would you assume their board would look like? Johnson, Russell, then Thomas? I think Tampa Bay would have someone they rate higher than Thomas available at their pick 3/4. That's why I doubt they would select him. i know gruden loves okoye but 3 or 4 overall might be too high, unless he blows everyone away at the combine which is a possibility.
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Old 02-15-2007   #15
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

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Didnt we already learn this lesson with Carr?

You build an O-line first then you bring in a franchise QB.

If we did it backwards again it would have the same results.
Obviously, if Quinn was drafted he wouldn't be thrown in like David was. Gary could bring in Plummer, still. OR, what if he went with Rosenfels to start the season? I don't think it's likely, but it's possible he may lean that way. Kubiak said himself when he signed Rosenfels, he thinks Sage has got the potential to be a good starting QB in this league.
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Old 02-16-2007   #16
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

let me put it this way...if and this is a very big if joe thomas did slip down to tampa bay and they would be willing to take david carr and the #8 pick for their pick so we can nab joe thomas we should automatically pull the triger
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Old 02-16-2007   #17
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
First off, the thread should and does read if Thomas fell to 4, because thats who we would trade with. We have no one to give that Arizona would want, so as long as Thomas falls to 4, then wwe could trade with Tampa. You don't trade with the team that really wants to draft the guy you want. Then you give up way too much. You trade with the team 1 spot above.

Secondly, I don't think Carr and the #8 for #4 is that crazy. The #8 spot is worth 1400 points, the #4 is worth 1800 points. Thats a difference of 400 points, or a mid to low 2nd round choice. We probably couldn't get that for Carr, but thats why I also included the optional 3rd in there. I"ve heard that the Texans are seeking somewhere between a 2-6, with ocnditions. Maybe we could give them Carr + 8 for #4, with a conditional pick in the 3rd round next year. If Carr plays 75% of games, we keep pick. If he plays 50% of games, itst a 4th. If he plays <50% of games, they get the 3rd.


It annoys me a lot when people say "This isn't madden" Do a litttle reearch or read the whole post before you toss out someones suggestion as totally crazy
For starters, the thread does say "what if Thomas fell to 5". Also, I was exagerating with my suggestion, I thought that might be obvious. Anyway, the draft value chart is overrated. At the #4 spot you have a great shot at getting CJ, Thomas, Gaines Adams, Jamal Andersson, AP and the QB's. At 8 your looking at Branch, Brown, Okoye, maybe AP or Quinn. You tell me you would trade the oppotunity to draft that first group of players for an overpriced, mediocre QB who is hated by the majority of his curent fan base.
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Old 02-17-2007   #18
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
1) Joe Thomas will be playing in Detroit next season. Good Possibility, if not they could go Quinn or DLine
2) Gruden's trying to save his job, so he will take CJ. Best Player Available.CJ is BPA in the draft, if not for Oak's need for a QB, CJ should be picked by the bucs if there, too good to pass up but should get offers and gruden would love to trade down for okoye imo
3) Cleveland flips a coin and takes AD over Brady Quinn.Cle loves JR, Quinn is a possibility, AP is def the sexy pick and they need a rushing attack, could go oline, or d-line, branch would be the perfect fit but doubt they do it.
4) Arizona has the offense (minus the line)...Thomas is gone...they take Gaines Adams insteado-line needs help for leinart, james, and the receivers, good pick with adams but anderson is just as much a possibility
5) Washington wants a future Bruce Smith...Jamaal Anderson fits here.with all other players gone anderson is probably bpa
6) Minnesota wants to improve passing game...STILL...Teddy G goes here #7 should be too high for Ginn but wouldn't surprise me if he goes here. He needs to work on his route running hardcore...but he's fast and Minn. will probably hope that will do it for them
7) The allure of Brady Quinn is too much for Gary to pass up. He makes the obvious choice and goes with Quinn i can see kubiak liking quinn but would hope smith entertains all trade offers. i dont think the choice is so obvious as you do though. i wouldnt be upset w/ this pick seeing AP, JR, and JT gone...but would kinda hope we finish off the defense since this draft is heavy w/ d. branch, okoye, willis, revis, hall, landry, nelson all available although 8 may be high for some. only offense available is brown besides quinn. this would be a very interesting decision should it come to this.

And that's all assuming that Oakland takes Russell over Johnson. They need that QB bad but the JR pick is not a 100% lock like everyone is making it out to be-could be 2006 all over again.
I agree with you. I would be upset if we took Quinn at #8. Noting that there is alot of top defensive talent in the draft this year, I think you have to stick to the plan and round out our defense. We also need to build our OL as stated in other post before we ruin another " Franchise QB ". I believe we look at Okoye at #8. www.nfldraftcountdown.com has changed us from taking AP to Okoye at this spot.
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Old 02-17-2007   #19
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Default Re: If Joe Thomas fell to 5, would you consider this?

I still think we take Lynch if Peterson is gone. Epecially if he runs a sub 4.4 forty at his size.
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