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Old 02-15-2007   #1
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Default Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

So I took this quote from the new chronicle blog guy, who took it from KC Joyner at ESPN. PRetty interesting:

"The other area that Plummer could help in is reducing the number of coverage sacks (a sack that occurs in the pocket more than three seconds after the snap). Over the past two seasons, Carr has been responsible for 24 coverage sacks, while Plummer has been responsible for 10".

No way to blame those on the OL. Every QB should be able to get rid of the ball after 3 seconds. This lends credence to everyone who has been claiming that Carr and the OL are equally responsible for his sack problems
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Old 02-15-2007   #2
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

Jake the Mistake...that name came about for a reason, I would take a 6 yard sack over a throw into double coverage that gets picked. Obviously, I would like to find a happy medium between Carr's lack of confidence and Plummer's recklessnes, but its about picking the lesser of two evils here.
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Old 02-15-2007   #3
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
So I took this quote from the new chronicle blog guy, who took it from KC Joyner at ESPN. PRetty interesting:

"The other area that Plummer could help in is reducing the number of coverage sacks (a sack that occurs in the pocket more than three seconds after the snap). Over the past two seasons, Carr has been responsible for 24 coverage sacks, while Plummer has been responsible for 10".

No way to blame those on the OL. Every QB should be able to get rid of the ball after 3 seconds. This lends credence to everyone who has been claiming that Carr and the OL are equally responsible for his sack problems
Oh, he contributes to his own sack total, no doubt. I would be curious to see a stat on how many times a rusher has hit Carr before he's even set his feet on the drop over the past two years. I'd be willing to bet it's higher than 24.
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Old 02-15-2007   #4
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

IMO, the key term is "Coverage sack". Meaning no one was open within the 3 second window. QBs fault.....perhaps. Sounds more like a scheme and/or reciever issue as much as anything. I'm not sure how a QB (any) can be responsible for a coverage sack unless they are expecting the ball to be thrown away which we know Carr has had a problem with until last year when he did much better.
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Old 02-15-2007   #5
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

One thing to remember guys, Jake when given a running game is a good qb. Also with a lead he will keep it. If you have to come from behind it would be tough. Dont let all the bashing out of denver make you think he would be worse than carr. He is a GREAT leader, you have a future star tight end and reciever, I firmly believe he can get you to the playoffs, until a younger qb is ready
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Old 02-15-2007   #6
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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Jake is now getting 8 million, this year.. in a back-up roll. Now is your answer too turning around our team. Give up a high draft, plus pay him mocha bucks will get us to the play-offs. I hope that you don't have anymore plans.
What are you talking about?

As for the coverage sack, every QB has to deal with those. Every QB won't have all his receivers, or sometimmes any of his receivers open after 3 seconds. But the good ones know where to go if that happens. Or they can make multiple reads instead of locking onto 1 guy and waiting to see if he gets open
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Old 02-15-2007   #7
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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One thing to remember guys, Jake when given a running game is a good qb. Also with a lead he will keep it. If you have to come from behind it would be tough. Dont let all the bashing out of denver make you think he would be worse than carr. He is a GREAT leader, you have a future star tight end and reciever, I firmly believe he can get you to the playoffs, until a younger qb is ready
Jake sucks, period. He had a complete team around him in Denver when Kubes was there. They had arguably the best o-line in the game, decent RBs and WRs, and a solid defense. Jake did not get them to the playoffs, the rest of the team did, although Jake was the reason they lost in the playoffs. The game of football does not revolve around stats, watch the play on the field. Jake was average at Arizona State, sucked in a Cardinals uniform, and was average in Denver. If you want to know how Jake would perform with the Texans you are better off watching his Cardinals game film, because they did not have an o-line or RBs either.
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Old 02-15-2007   #8
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post

As for the coverage sack, every QB has to deal with those.
David needs to learn to throw the ball away, sometimes it seems as if he is more worried about his completion % than he is about taking a sack. This can be taught.
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Old 02-15-2007   #9
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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Jake sucks, period. He had a complete team around him in Denver when Kubes was there. They had arguably the best o-line in the game, decent RBs and WRs, and a solid defense. Jake did not get them to the playoffs, the rest of the team did, although Jake was the reason they lost in the playoffs. The game of football does not revolve around stats, watch the play on the field. Jake was average at Arizona State, sucked in a Cardinals uniform, and was average in Denver. If you want to know how Jake would perform with the Texans you are better off watching his Cardinals game film, because they did not have an o-line or RBs either.
Lets see, his improvement as a Bronco had nothing to do with the constant coaching Kubes forced on him? It had nothing to do with the system Kubes implemented in Denver? If it was the team that was so good, why did Jakes play ever change? Why did he start off badly and steadily improve his play? The team didn't change that much over the years, so something must have changed.

In 2004 and 2005 Plummer threw for almost 8000 yards, 45 tds, and 27 ints. I don't care how good your team is, you do'nt rack up those kind of numbers, however misleading stats might be, if you are a horrible quarterback.

Take the Dolphins as an example. Harrington is a crappy quarterback. He had a great team around him this year. And he still sucked.
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Old 02-15-2007   #10
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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David needs to learn to throw the ball away, sometimes it seems as if he is more worried about his completion % than he is about taking a sack. This can be taught.

If after 5 years in the NFL someone still hasn't been able to learn something, theres a good chance they won't magically master the ability any time in the near future.
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Old 02-15-2007   #11
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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Originally Posted by trutxn View Post
Jake sucks, period. He had a complete team around him in Denver when Kubes was there. They had arguably the best o-line in the game, decent RBs and WRs, and a solid defense. Jake did not get them to the playoffs, the rest of the team did, although Jake was the reason they lost in the playoffs. The game of football does not revolve around stats, watch the play on the field. Jake was average at Arizona State, sucked in a Cardinals uniform, and was average in Denver. If you want to know how Jake would perform with the Texans you are better off watching his Cardinals game film, because they did not have an o-line or RBs either.
I hear what you are saying and agree with 99% of it. BUT remember that even Plummer did take the Cardinals to the play-offs; beating Dallas and then losing to Minnesota.
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Old 02-15-2007   #12
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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If after 5 years in the NFL someone still hasn't been able to learn something, theres a good chance they won't magically master the ability any time in the near future.
He has had one year of teaching. Dom Capers staff could not train anyone, especially a QB.
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Old 02-15-2007   #13
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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He has had one year of teaching. Dom Capers staff could not train anyone, especially a QB.
Unless you have some sort of proof of that, I am going to have to call you out on this one.

Maybe he wasn't the most effective teacher in the NFL, but I know for a fact that Carr was coached by the old regime, especially Pendry. Not to mention the fact that there were QB coaches there.
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Old 02-15-2007   #14
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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Lets see, his improvement as a Bronco had nothing to do with the constant coaching Kubes forced on him?

In 2004 and 2005 Plummer threw for almost 8000 yards, 45 tds, and 27 ints. I don't care how good your team is, you do'nt rack up those kind of numbers, however misleading stats might be, if you are a horrible quarterback.

Take the Dolphins as an example. Harrington is a crappy quarterback. He had a great team around him this year. And he still sucked.
I do not like David Carr as a Texan, he is just our best option at this time.

1) Kubes did help tremendously, but you can't compare Jake's stats to Davids because David would have good numbers with a good team around him.

2) Stats mean nothing, learn the game. Remember Andre Ware and David Klingler. I do belive the Raiders' Aaron Brooks had one good yr in New Orleans, that doesn't hide the fact that he sucks. Also, David Carr was throwing for almost 400 yds a game in college, what do those stats mean now?

3) The Dolphins battled injuries all year along the o-line, RB, & WR. They didn't have a good overall team, they had a good defense.

The only point that I am trying to make is that Jake Plummer is just an older David Carr. They both have the same talent level. It is not worth giving up a draft pick if we are not going to get better.
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Old 02-15-2007   #15
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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Unless you have some sort of proof of that, I am going to have to call you out on this one.

Maybe he wasn't the most effective teacher in the NFL, but I know for a fact that Carr was coached by the old regime, especially Pendry. Not to mention the fact that there were QB coaches there.
The previous staff was a defensive staff, none of them had the reputation of developing QBs like Kubes does, not even your boy Pendry.
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Old 02-15-2007   #16
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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If after 5 years in the NFL someone still hasn't been able to learn something, theres a good chance they won't magically master the ability any time in the near future.
I guarantee you if you start docking his pay for stupid decisions his decision making will improve.
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Old 02-15-2007   #17
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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David needs to learn to throw the ball away, sometimes it seems as if he is more worried about his completion % than he is about taking a sack. This can be taught.
Then he is a slow learner ... because that's taught long before the NFL .
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Old 02-15-2007   #18
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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The previous staff was a defensive staff, none of them had the reputation of developing QBs like Kubes does, not even your boy Pendry.
uh... Chris Palmer and Drew Bledsoe?
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Old 02-15-2007   #19
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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uh... Chris Palmer and Drew Bledsoe?
Like I said, the old staff sucked. You all are making my point that much more clear by arguing. Bledsoe has good stats, and thats it. FOOTBALL IS NOT LIKE OTHER SPORTS, ITS NOT ALL ABOUT STATS!
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Old 02-15-2007   #20
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Default Re: Interesting stat regarding Carr/Plummer

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Like I said, the old staff sucked. You all are making my point that much more clear by arguing. Bledsoe has good stats, and thats it. FOOTBALL IS NOT LIKE OTHER SPORTS, ITS NOT ALL ABOUT STATS!
Chris Palmer is a decent coach ... Bill Parcells hired him to be his QB coach .
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