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Old 02-11-2007   #1
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Default Jake the Snake...another post.

So we get Jake Plummer. we upgrade left tackle and get a franchise running back in AP or marshawn lynch. we bulster up the defense. Do you think Plummer was a necessary upgrade? I understand many don't think he's an upgrade at all over Carr and most argue that well he was probably the most successful starting qb to be benched. 7-3 is not a bad record to have during week 11. But can Plummer have the same success he had with Kubiak back in Denver, here in Houston? Denver had a much better defense than we probably will have next year. They probably had a better OL than we will have next year. BUT, we could easily have a better RB, better WR's, as good of a special teams...

I think Plummer is a good move for next season or two. Now the question is, what QB's are out there that fit our scheme that won't go in the first round?
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Old 02-11-2007   #2
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Actually the thought of Plummer at the helm with Kubiak in charge does not scare me in the least. Like you said...a couple of seasons with the right replacement in the works, and we could be breaking wind through silk underwear in no time.
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Old 02-11-2007   #3
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

I'll take this data from McClain and say that I'd like this much more than what we have. I'm not saying he is the man. This would be a better choice in my book though.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/4543685.html

"FOR those of you who think Jake would be a mistake for the Texans, here's the lowdown on Plummer's performance at Denver when Gary Kubiak was his offensive coordinator from 2003-05.

Plummer, 32, had a 32-11 regular-season record under Kubiak, going 9-2 in 2003, 10-6 in 2004 and 13-3 in 2005.

Last season, when Mike Heimerdinger returned to Denver to replace Kubiak, Plummer didn't play well and was benched after 11 games. But he was 7-4 as a starter.

In his four seasons with the Broncos, Plummer was 39-15 in the regular season and 1-3 in the playoffs.

When he played for Kubiak, Plummer's touchdown-to-interception ratio was 15-7 in 2003, 27-20 in 2004 and 18-7 in 2005.

That's 60 touchdown passes and 34 interceptions.

Under Kubiak, Plummer had the best passer ratings of his career: 91.2, 84.5 and 90.2."
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Old 02-11-2007   #4
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I'll take this data from McClain and say that I'd like this much more than what we have. I'm not saying he is the man. This would be a better choice in my book though.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/4543685.html

"FOR those of you who think Jake would be a mistake for the Texans, here's the lowdown on Plummer's performance at Denver when Gary Kubiak was his offensive coordinator from 2003-05.

Plummer, 32, had a 32-11 regular-season record under Kubiak, going 9-2 in 2003, 10-6 in 2004 and 13-3 in 2005.

Last season, when Mike Heimerdinger returned to Denver to replace Kubiak, Plummer didn't play well and was benched after 11 games. But he was 7-4 as a starter.

In his four seasons with the Broncos, Plummer was 39-15 in the regular season and 1-3 in the playoffs.

When he played for Kubiak, Plummer's touchdown-to-interception ratio was 15-7 in 2003, 27-20 in 2004 and 18-7 in 2005.

That's 60 touchdown passes and 34 interceptions.

Under Kubiak, Plummer had the best passer ratings of his career: 91.2, 84.5 and 90.2."
The article was no surprise given McLain's being a Titan fan. He rarely misses a chance to take a shot At Carr; in this case praising Plummer.
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Old 02-11-2007   #5
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Here are some items McClain forgot to mention in his article. While Plummer was with Denver the Broncos were #1 or 2 in rushing offense, the Oline was one of the best in the NFL, they had very good running backs & recievers and a good defense. Denver made the decision against Plummer before Kubiak coached his first game as a Texan and before Plummer played his first game without Kubiak as his coach when the Broncos traded up to get a QB in last years draft.

Simple question for all the Plummer lovers, what would Jake's stats and record be if had played in Houston the last 5 years?

If kubiak dumps Carr for Plummer and plays worse than Carr, Kubiak's job could very well be on the line.
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Old 02-11-2007   #6
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QB75 View Post
The article was no surprise given McLain's being a Titan fan. He rarely misses a chance to take a shot At Carr; in this case praising Plummer.
Give me a break. McClain might say alot of crazy things but the guy has been a huge supporter of Houston football, etc. The article had nothing to do with Carr. It basically laid out one man's stats and let people see for themselves. How are poiting out a guys stats dissing Carr? Its nice for a reporter to give people all the facts regarding options. Of course with some of you guys it is always about Dave not getting everything he should get..lol.
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Old 02-11-2007   #7
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Here are some items McClain forgot to mention in his article. While Plummer was with Denver the Broncos were #1 or 2 in rushing offense, the Oline was one of the best in the NFL, they had very good running backs & recievers and a good defense. Denver made the decision against Plummer before Kubiak coached his first game as a Texan and before Plummer played his first game without Kubiak as his coach when the Broncos traded up to get a QB in last years draft.

Simple question for all the Plummer lovers, what would Jake's stats and record be if had played in Houston the last 5 years?

If kubiak dumps Carr for Plummer and plays worse than Carr, Kubiak's job could very well be on the line.
Here is what I don't get about alot of the posts on this board..and I'm not trying to dog you..I'm just saying in general...why are people Plummer lovers if they want to compare other QBs to what we have?It is like people aren't allowed to try and look at football facts and stats and make their own decisions. I'll say what I've said 50 times on this board, there are a 100s of guys with NFL arms, etc that can't make it in this league. People are tired of Carr excuses. People are evaluating options. I don't particularly love Jake but I like seeing stats and evaluating how he compares to what we have. I also don't think many people are counting on him to be the savior. I can see guys like him being a step up while we have a younger guy learn the system. The 5 year waiting period for some has grown tiresome.
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Old 02-11-2007   #8
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Give me a break. McClain might say alot of crazy things but the guy has been a huge supporter of Houston football, etc. The article had nothing to do with Carr. It basically laid out one man's stats and let people see for themselves. How are poiting out a guys stats dissing Carr? Its nice for a reporter to give people all the facts regarding options. Of course with some of you guys it is always about Dave not getting everything he should get..lol.
He's never forgiven the Texans for not drafting Vince Young and ever since it has biased his views on the Texans and Carr.
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Old 02-11-2007   #9
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QB75 View Post
The article was no surprise given McLain's being a Titan fan.
That makes sense....the Titans were never mentioned. David Carr wasn't mentioned and Vince Young wasn't mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QB75 View Post
He rarely misses a chance to take a shot At Carr; in this case praising Plummer.
Him and every other journalist, radio/TV personality in Houston are all advocates of changing QB's. What's their excuse?
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Old 02-11-2007   #10
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Here is what I don't get about alot of the posts on this board..and I'm not trying to dog you..I'm just saying in general...why are people Plummer lovers if they want to compare other QBs to what we have?It is like people aren't allowed to try and look at football facts and stats and make their own decisions. I'll say what I've said 50 times on this board, there are a 100s of guys with NFL arms, etc that can't make it in this league. People are tired of Carr excuses. People are evaluating options. I don't particularly love Jake but I like seeing stats and evaluating how he compares to what we have. I also don't think many people are counting on him to be the savior. I can see guys like him being a step up while we have a younger guy learn the system. The 5 year waiting period for some has grown tiresome.
Its not stats that bother me, its attributing the TEAM's record to the QB. The Denver Broncos were 7-3 when Plummer was benched, Jake Plummer was not 7-3. Having a great running game or great D (conversly, a terrible run game, D, O-line, WR's etc) have as big an imapct and often times bigger impact then the QB. In my opinion, the only entities that should have records attached to them are teams and head coaches. One player does not decided the fate of an entire season, as saying that Plummer was 13-3 two years ago implies.
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Old 02-11-2007   #11
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QB75 View Post
He's never forgiven the Texans for not drafting Vince Young and ever since it has biased his views on the Texans and Carr.
Even though Carr, the Titans and all of that was taken out of the article and he basically laid out stats.
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Old 02-11-2007   #12
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
Its not stats that bother me, its attributing the TEAM's record to the QB. The Denver Broncos were 7-3 when Plummer was benched, Jake Plummer was not 7-3. Having a great running game or great D (conversly, a terrible run game, D, O-line, WR's etc) have as big an imapct and often times bigger impact then the QB. In my opinion, the only entities that should have records attached to them are teams and head coaches. One player does not decided the fate of an entire season, as saying that Plummer was 13-3 two years ago implies.
No but I'll repeat what I posted to you in another thread. QB may be one of the most, if not the most important position in sports. That is what people fail to realize here. They can gloss it all they want but they touch the ball every play on offense and everything from the cadence, to studying film, to knowing the playbook, to reading defenses, etc comes into play. QB isn't a position that is paid millions to be medicore and to just take care of a tiny bit on the team. That concept takes away from everything a great QB does to make a team better...the Bradys, the Mannings, the Montanas, etc, etc. Plummer didn't do that on his own and I'm not advocating bringing him in but his stats bear looking at compared to the production we have gotten. It is not realistic for fans to trivialize the affect of a QB just because they feel we need to surround ours with great players to cover for his inadequacies.
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Old 02-11-2007   #13
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

I wonder what his girlfriend is going to do?

It's not like she is going to keep on being a cheerleader for the Donkeys.

Watch us end up with signing Kurt Warner about 6 games into the season... he comes in out of retirement and leads the Texans to a playoff berth with Johnson.

Then becomes the first Texan in the HOF.
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Old 02-11-2007   #14
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
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The article was no surprise given McLain's being a Titan fan. He rarely misses a chance to take a shot At Carr; in this case praising Plummer.
In what way out of that above statement did you get "Vince Young" and "I, John McClain love the Titans".

Please. Other than telling the truth about Plummers and Kubiaks track record together, there was no homerism anywhere in that article.
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Old 02-11-2007   #15
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Red Bull View Post
That makes sense....the Titans were never mentioned. David Carr wasn't mentioned and Vince Young wasn't mentioned.



Him and every other journalist, radio/TV personality in Houston are all advocates of changing QB's. What's their excuse?
I guess it can't be that our QB makes big bucks and is not very consistent . That would be more complicated than to say the media of the city is plotting the ruination of #8 from Fresno State .
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Old 02-12-2007   #16
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texian View Post

Simple question for all the Plummer lovers, what would Jake's stats and record be if had played in Houston the last 5 years?

If kubiak dumps Carr for Plummer and plays worse than Carr, Kubiak's job could very well be on the line.
who cares? what does that have to do whether it is good to bring him or not? to me, it is the best option. not huard, not garcia, etc.
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Old 02-12-2007   #17
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
No but I'll repeat what I posted to you in another thread. QB may be one of the most, if not the most important position in sports. That is what people fail to realize here. They can gloss it all they want but they touch the ball every play on offense and everything from the cadence, to studying film, to knowing the playbook, to reading defenses, etc comes into play. QB isn't a position that is paid millions to be medicore and to just take care of a tiny bit on the team. That concept takes away from everything a great QB does to make a team better...the Bradys, the Mannings, the Montanas, etc, etc. Plummer didn't do that on his own and I'm not advocating bringing him in but his stats bear looking at compared to the production we have gotten. It is not realistic for fans to trivialize the affect of a QB just because they feel we need to surround ours with great players to cover for his inadequacies.
But you've completly ignored his point. Teams in the past have won games and Super Bowls - Trent Dilfer? Brad Johnson? - and I'd rather have a mediocre QB and fix more important parts of the team. That's what Kubes is trying to do - thats what he did last year when he took mario and demeco.

Yes Carr is inconsistant at times but we're better off with Carr than Plummer - why do you think they traded up for Jay Cutler? Comedy Value? Plummer is not a good QB, I'd go as far as saying he's worse than Carr. I've talked to Bronco fans and they all hate Plummer, and they will tell you they win games in spite of him - just like we do with Carr. I'd rather focus on other, more important parts of the team rather than QB.
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Old 02-12-2007   #18
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

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But you've completly ignored his point. Teams in the past have won games and Super Bowls - Trent Dilfer? Brad Johnson? - and I'd rather have a mediocre QB and fix more important parts of the team. That's what Kubes is trying to do - thats what he did last year when he took mario and demeco.

Yes Carr is inconsistant at times but we're better off with Carr than Plummer - why do you think they traded up for Jay Cutler? Comedy Value? Plummer is not a good QB, I'd go as far as saying he's worse than Carr. I've talked to Bronco fans and they all hate Plummer, and they will tell you they win games in spite of him - just like we do with Carr. I'd rather focus on other, more important parts of the team rather than QB.

I didn't ignore his point. The 2 guys you mentioned are the exception not the rule. The list of top QBs that have won it all is a list of Hall of Famers. 2 guys out of 41 doesn't sway me. To me, naming off those guys is another excuse being made so as to say that we can do other things besides improve in ALL areas. It is saying we have an overpriced QB who can't win games for us so we should surround him with people to make up for his own inadequacies.

You don't know Carr is better than Plummer. None of us do. As I said above I am not saying he is the man but look at the stats provided under Kubiak. Even the article above talked about how they couldn't stand Plummer this year. I just cut that part off. You can hit the link. Carr hasn't shown he can do any of these things under any coach. Bringing in Cutler actually makes my point. They had a veteran that they could depend on and made a rookie learn the system. Once he came up to speed they gave him the reins. No one is saying Jake wins the SB or we should sign him for 5 years OR that he is the man but he is a vet that knows the system, has won under the system and is someone that can improve the team while a younger QB learns. That is all people are asking for.
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Old 02-12-2007   #19
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

David Carr's first 11 games in 06.......
yards td int att/com w/l
208 1 0 18/27 l
219 3 0 22/26 l
208 2 1 19/29 l
230 1 1 22/29 w
128 0 2 15/27 l
224 2 0 25/34 w
113 0 1 15/21 l
176 0 0 21/31 l *
167 0 0 16/32 w
223 0 1 25/30 l *
321 1 1 39/54 l *

2217 10 7 217/340 3-8



Jake Plummer
yards td int att/com w/l
138 0 3 13/26 l
173 0 1 16/30 w
256 2 0 15/30 w
106 1 1 13/21 w
102 0 0 11/18 w
209 1 2 20/41 w
174 1 0 13/21 l
227 3 0 16/27 w
210 2 3 20/31 w
183 0 1 13/28 l
216 1 1 25/39 l

1994 11 12 175/312 7-4

Now if you all remember correctly the Giants and Buffalo we should have clearly won.Those games have a star by them. Plus i put one next to the Jets game as well, because i think with a running game we would have won that one. We had a total of like 25 rushing yards that game. That would have put us at 6-5 one game behind the broncos. David had a better td/int ratio and more yards. Now I am not saying that Dave is the best nor the worst Qb but i think he can be a lot better with a consistent running game. I mean when he is bad is he REALLY BAD!!!if you look at the stats I see the more Carr throws the better chance we have of winning. Each time he threw 30 or more times we won or should have.....and his td-int ration was 3-2. I think with a better defense and a consistent running game and giving David a chance to throw more and get in a groove, we have an exceptionally high chance of winning. Like when we beat Jacksonville the 1st time he threw 29 times but we lost to Dallas when he trew 29 times, but guess what we had a total of like 34 yards and Dave ran for 15, and was the leading rusher of the team........wow.....It may not seem like it but the more he throws the higher chance of us winning. I say give him ball and let it go. Give him time with a new o line and he will do wonders........
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Old 02-12-2007   #20
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Default Re: Jake the Snake...another post.

cold pizza is talking about david carr and jake plummer today.
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