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Old 02-07-2007   #1
baba ganoush
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Default New Offensive Line...

BEFORE...

Ephram Saleem - Chester Pitts - Steve McKinney - Fred Weary - Eric Winston

Free Agency and Draft
I think we should shoot for a guy like Eric Steinbach or Rick DeMulling to play guard...Then I think we should maybe draft Aaron Sears or Ryan Kalil with our second pick...If we choose Sears in the second, maybe we caould look for a guy like Doug Datish in the third...we need to get a guy that can be solid in the middle for years to come... i honestly dont think that Hodgdon is our true answer, but i like him as depth, and i say we should try him out as guard also...

AFTER...

(Best case scenario)
Charles Spencer - Eric Steinbach - Ryan Kalil - Chester Pitts - Eric Winston

(2nd Best case scenario: if Spencer cany return)
Arron Sears - Chester Pitts - Doug Datish - Rick DeMulling - Eric Winston

(Worst case scenario)
Ephram Saleem - Chester Pitts - Drew Hodgdon - Fred Weary - Eric Winston
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Old 02-07-2007   #2
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by baba ganoush View Post
BEFORE...

Ephram Saleem - Chester Pitts - Steve McKinney - Fred Weary - Eric Winston

Free Agency and Draft
I think we should shoot for a guy like Eric Steinbach or Rick DeMulling to play guard...Then I think we should maybe draft Aaron Sears or Ryan Kalil with our second pick...If we choose Sears in the second, maybe we caould look for a guy like Doug Datish in the third...we need to get a guy that can be solid in the middle for years to come... i honestly dont think that Hodgdon is our true answer, but i like him as depth, and i say we should try him out as guard also...

AFTER...

(Best case scenario)
Charles Spencer - Eric Steinbach - Ryan Kalil - Chester Pitts - Eric Winston

(2nd Best case scenario: if Spencer cany return)
Arron Sears - Chester Pitts - Doug Datish - Rick DeMulling - Eric Winston

(Worst case scenario)
Ephram Saleem - Chester Pitts - Drew Hodgdon - Fred Weary - Eric Winston
I don't think it will be your worst case scenario. That was a total bust last year, and one thing the Texans have been good about recently is applying new people when a position goes bust. I think it will be something more along the lines of

Spencer - Pitts - Kalil/Datish - Weary - Winston

or

Brown - Pitts - Weary - Winston - Spencer
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Old 02-07-2007   #3
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

first we need to thank Ephram Saleem for not giving up & playing hurt nearly all season, as stop gaps go he did as much as could be expected as a journeyman tackle.

When Spencer returns he will move to his natural position for the NFL @ RT maybe rotate with Winston & try and stay healthy while rehabing for a year of two.

Weary & Pitts are your long term Guards of the Texans.

McKinney, Hodgdon & Flanagan. the Texans will have to release one of these guys if they plan to use a 1st day pick on a Center. I guess if they can upgrade through the draft & a guy they like slips into the 3rd/4th rd.(Kalil/Datish) they may exercise some option otherwise I'm not convinced they will do much at least as of right now.

Left tackle is so key to this team & any success to be expected from the QB position that it should be addressed regardless if its widely accepted as the bpa or not. the only thing that matters is what Smith & Kubiak think & we won't know much of anything until they send out invitations to Relient. its gonna be real interesting/exciting to see who they think highly enough of to bring in for private workouts
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Old 02-07-2007   #4
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
When Spencer returns he will move to his natural position for the NFL @ RT
I see him as a much more natural RG in the NFL. Always have, and probally always will. He is a mauler suited for OG in the NFL IMO.
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Old 02-07-2007   #5
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

Question: What's the deal with Eric Winston?

Has he improved enough to be our clear cut Right Tackle? How did he progress through the season.. ?
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Old 02-07-2007   #6
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

For the most part, I agree with beerlover.

Pitts & Weary are going to be here for a while. I might even go so far as to consider Winston an Anchor on the right side. Our two biggest areas of need(on the O Line) are LT, and Center.

The best thing that we can do for our offensive line, is start the same 5 guys we finished the season with.. at the postions they played. To me, that means starting Ephraim, unless Spencer is 100%, and can play on the left side. If they look at Spencer, and think he may have to move to the right side, we have to start Ephraim on the left.

If we get Levi Brown, and he catches on really, really quick, we can start him on the left side...... ideally, this would still be after two or three games....... Subbing him in when the game is not on the line. End of the half, Start of the third.... after we are blowing someone out.......

If we don't get Levi, and Spencer won't be 100% for a few weeks, then Salaam has to start until he can.......... hopefully it won't be more than 4 games.

Without a first round LT, without Spencer, we are going to have to get someone who can play the position eventually. We may have to ride Salaam througout the season.... & though I may be his biggest supporter, I'd rather not see that.

Center....... McKinney starts... maybe Hogdon just needs a little more time.... but I personally think he is not going to cut it...... Try him out as a guard(for depth) maybe....... but we need to get another center in here, & soon, because Flannagan is on his last leg, and McKinney ain't no spring chicken either....

I hope that we aren't so desperate that we have to start 2 rookies on our offensive line. If that is the case.... then I do in fact have a poor feel for the talent on this team. and we were lucky to be 6-10 in '06.
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Old 02-07-2007   #7
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

I think McKinney always did a good job at center, he just wasn't a good guard. I think our interior, Pitts/McKinney/Weary can be a good corps. Winston being Right Tackle and Spencer being left tackle can be pretty good as well. I would just like to get another tackle to add depth for spencer, and another center to take over for mckinney, then after that we willl have a young talented offensive line.
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Old 02-07-2007   #8
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

I think that Eric Winston is still recovering from his injury in college. It was that injury that pushed him down from a possible top 10 guy to the 3rd round.


Of course for offensive linemen, some injuries are irreversible. They just have to deal with them.



Ideally last season I was looking at

Winston -- Weary -- Flannigan -- Pitts -- Spencer


I think that now with Spencer's career still in question; a solid LT is very important; therefore a concern. Salaam who did adequate considering all of the problems (helping the team to a remarkable 6-10 season).


Ephraam Salam you're
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Old 02-07-2007   #9
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan View Post
I see him as a much more natural RG in the NFL. Always have, and probally always will. He is a mauler suited for OG in the NFL IMO.
I agree.

Best scenerio: (for me)

LT: Rookie (Brown or Staley)
LG: Pitts
C: Weary (give him a try at center)
RG: Winston
RT: Spencer

Note: Have Winston and Spencer battle for the RT spot. Loser moves to guard...
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Old 02-07-2007   #10
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trap_Star View Post
I agree.

Best scenerio: (for me)

LT: Rookie (Brown or Staley)
LG: Pitts
C: Weary (give him a try at center)
RG: Winston
RT: Spencer

Note: Have Winston and Spencer battle for the RT spot. Loser moves to guard...
I like the idea of having a mauler playing RT I think that suits the position well, not to mention Spencers power, hand punch, girth, long arms & foot speed (assuming he can fully recover from his severe break). Winston looks like a good back-up where ever you need guard or tackle help, he just lacks the measrueables, yet fills a valued team role- adding depth.
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Old 02-07-2007   #11
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If we get Levi Brown, and he catches on really, really quick, we can start him on the left side...... ideally, this would still be after two or three games....... Subbing him in when the game is not on the line. End of the half, Start of the third.... after we are blowing someone out.......
If you draft a tackle in the top 10, he had better start from day one. Especially on an offensive line that is "limited" on talent. If it is thought that Brown can't start from day one, then he's probably not special enough to be a top 10 draft pick.
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Old 02-07-2007   #12
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by texanfan2100 View Post
If you draft a tackle in the top 10, he had better start from day one. Especially on an offensive line that is "limited" on talent. If it is thought that Brown can't start from day one, then he's probably not special enough to be a top 10 draft pick.
Last time we took this attitude...we missed on the two starters who will play next weekend in the pro bowl, McNeil and Jamall Brown. I don't think that Levi Brown is athletic as Joe Thomas or Boselli. I do believe, unless Spencer comes back at more than 90%, Brown beats him out of camp for OLT.

And what is so wrong about having two front line tackles ? Eventually you have to admit that selecting garbage free agents at the tackle positions has cost the franchise a lot. Up to intepretation how much of a hole that is. TK has got the grey beard starting again at OLT. Do you realy want to start the '07 season with Salaam as the best option at OLT ? I wouldn't do it unless I was planning to tank the season for draft position in '08. I don't think Kubiak and Smith minds work that way.
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Old 02-07-2007   #13
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

right now i think kubiak is happy with weary and pitts as the guards on this team...we need better depth behind them but look for center and tackle to be the main point of emphasis during the offseason not guard
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Old 02-07-2007   #14
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourfavoritetexan42 View Post
I think McKinney always did a good job at center, he just wasn't a good guard. I think our interior, Pitts/McKinney/Weary can be a good corps. Winston being Right Tackle and Spencer being left tackle can be pretty good as well. I would just like to get another tackle to add depth for spencer, and another center to take over for mckinney, then after that we willl have a young talented offensive line.
McKinney sucked hard at C, but was admirable before us as an OG for the Colts.
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Old 02-07-2007   #15
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I hope that we aren't so desperate that we have to start 2 rookies on our offensive line.
Worked out OK for the Oilers back in the day. One of 'em just was inducted into the HOF. I'm just saying.

Actually, I will be more explicit. Winners rise to the level of expectations placed upon them. Treat a man like a man, tell him he has a job to do, that the team is counting on him, provide him the resources he needs....and it should not take long to figure out if he has what it takes.

I'll close by saying that I'm a believer in Kubiak and Smith.
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Old 02-07-2007   #16
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

not to sound like a broken record but revisit what the NY Jets accomplished last year with two rookies starting @ Center & Left Tackle. If Levi & Kalil are there for the pick'en they actually represent even better value (both would be selected a little later in the order) & last year was a supposed to be a deeper draft.
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Old 02-08-2007   #17
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zac View Post
I think that Eric Winston is still recovering from his injury in college. It was that injury that pushed him down from a possible top 10 guy to the 3rd round.

Of course for offensive linemen, some injuries are irreversible. They just have to deal with them.
I think Eric has always relied on natural ability and quickness to be a tackle in college. I do not think technique was drilled into him enough (like most college O linemen). In the NFL Eric is just another big guy, and the NFL DEs learn from play to play, unlike the college guys with only one move. He is like most guys, he had rough times but he should get better as his footwork, hand moves, and body lean become second nature. Also remember you are taking a guy who always swung from the left and moving him across the plate and asking him to swing from the right side against all stars competition.

Lets see what happens.
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Old 02-08-2007   #18
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
not to sound like a broken record but revisit what the NY Jets accomplished last year with two rookies starting @ Center & Left Tackle. If Levi & Kalil are there for the pick'en they actually represent even better value (both would be selected a little later in the order) & last year was a supposed to be a deeper draft.
There are two good reasons for the Texans to draft high on the o-line. One is to better evaluate Carr, whose supporters have a sound argument that he never received good protection. Adding Brown and Kalil/Datish to the starting lineup would be an immediate impact and reduce sacks and hurries. Second, if the Texans decide that they want to start looking to a future beyond Carr, that QB will also need a good line. Build it while you can, from the trenches outward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texanfan2100 View Post
If you draft a tackle in the top 10, he had better start from day one. Especially on an offensive line that is "limited" on talent. If it is thought that Brown can't start from day one, then he's probably not special enough to be a top 10 draft pick.
Agreed. If Spencer is drafted in the third round but starts day one, then certainly the second-highest-rated tackle in the draft would start on the line. Last season, every Texans' draft pick made a significant contribution to the starting line. I don't expect less this season.

I could see, however, that McKinney or Weary starts the season at Center, with the drafted center being rotated in for a few games.
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Old 02-08-2007   #19
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Last time we took this attitude...we missed on the two starters who will play next weekend in the pro bowl, McNeil and Jamall Brown. I don't think that Levi Brown is athletic as Joe Thomas or Boselli. I do believe, unless Spencer comes back at more than 90%, Brown beats him out of camp for OLT.

And what is so wrong about having two front line tackles ? Eventually you have to admit that selecting garbage free agents at the tackle positions has cost the franchise a lot. Up to intepretation how much of a hole that is. TK has got the grey beard starting again at OLT. Do you realy want to start the '07 season with Salaam as the best option at OLT ? I wouldn't do it unless I was planning to tank the season for draft position in '08. I don't think Kubiak and Smith minds work that way.
Old Gray beard played pretty darn well, when he wasn't knicked up. Freeney didn't touch David because of him, Taylor didn't get close to David until Bedell came in, Demarcus Ware couldn't sniff David Carr...

I don't want him playing more than 4 games if Spencer isn't healthy. If he is, then Spencer should get the start, since technically it's his spot. If he could use another 4 weeks to heal...... let him heal. That's all I'm saying.

As far as stating Levi Brown..... I'll just say I don't know. I just don't know.

As fas as my comment, that I hope we don't start two rookies on the OL. That to me would mean that Kubiak screwed up, and the guys he thought could play on the line can't. Whether that be McKinney, Flanagan, Weary, or Winston...... It would mean I was wrong, and we are as bad as some have been saying we are.

If Levi gets the start over Salaam on the left side.... fine. If we draft someone to start at Center....... to me, two of the most important areas of the line, then we're starting from scratch. Forget '06, that was wasted time, & we have to start the learning process all over again.
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Old 02-08-2007   #20
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Default Re: New Offensive Line...

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
As fas as my comment, that I hope we don't start two rookies on the OL. That to me would mean that Kubiak screwed up, and the guys he thought could play on the line can't. Whether that be McKinney, Flanagan, Weary, or Winston...... It would mean I was wrong, and we are as bad as some have been saying we are.

If Levi gets the start over Salaam on the left side.... fine. If we draft someone to start at Center....... to me, two of the most important areas of the line, then we're starting from scratch. Forget '06, that was wasted time, & we have to start the learning process all over again.
food for thought-

how would y'all feel going QB with 8th pick if JaMarcus or Brady where drafted starting their career's playing behind the Texans current line?

how would y'all feel taking Adrien Peterson with that 8th pick? how many productive, injury riddled years would he have in the NFL playing behind this line or facsimilie thereof?

sometimes you got take whats offered & just roll with the punches, this draft sets up well for the Texans to revamp the entire offensive line if they so choose, solidifying the group to play here over the next decade. I'm afraid its too late already for Carr, but we'll never know unless they upgrade this line. I know Kubiak understands the importance with Shermans help they tried to address their needs last year in the off season signing free agent Center Mike Flanagan & LT Ephraam Salam. both are near the end of their playing days & bodies are breaking down, what they provide is experience & leadership. Spencers injury was most unfortunate, can't blame Kubiak for that but even coming out of College 100% he was projected as a guard. Winston has struggled & demonstrates the difficulty of coming back from the devastating acl injurys these big positional players seem to experience on a regular basis.

looks to me no matter how you slice it this is going to be another transitional year for the Texans offensive line, same old song & dance regardless if you keep the old or bring in the new so might as well do it right for a change & get it done, as Nike says "Just do it"
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