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Old 02-07-2007   #1
Meloy
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Default Kubiak evaluation

First let me say, I think Kubes is the right guy for job & I am ecstatic about our most recent draft. That being said, he had film of all David Carr's games and input from several NFL types. Did he

1. Simply misjudge Carr?
2. Say what he thought he had to for the job.
3. Truly think he could improve DC enough to get by and is now admitting he was wrong. If so, is that on him or David or both.

Was the success of the draft more Casserly than some want to admit?
Was Mario over B/Y simply taking the easy way out for a coach not wanting to gamble on a RB or QB that could have failed just as easily?
Have the free agents Kubes picked really worked out?

Some if not all of these have been discussed, but now more time has elapsed and F/agency and another important draft loom. I say we are going to be just fine. What do you say?
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Old 02-07-2007   #2
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

You should make this a poll.
I pick option 3.
Kubes has been around great QB's his entire career and coached them. I think he underestimated the amount of shell-shock, happy feet and coddling that comes with Carr.
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Old 02-07-2007   #3
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

Not sure what the difference is between #1 & #3? In any case, I don't believe for a second it was #2.

Casserly's role in every draft has been overstated. The Texans have college scouts who evaluated the talent. The coaching staff then gave their input. I feel it was the coaches who had too much say in prior drafts (moving up for Babin, trading for P-Bust). Casserly is a builder of organizations, not a talent evaluator.

I'll always believe that Williams got the nod after McNair vetoed the Bush pick. Young was never really an option.

Have the bigger $$$ players Kubiak wanted worked out? TBD. But, Rick Smith has done a heck of a job since with street FA signings. That bodes well, I think.
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Old 02-07-2007   #4
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

Way too early to give a final grade on Kubiak.

I like Kubiak and I think he is going to be a good coach for us. If I were going to grade him on what he did this past year I'd give him a C+. 6-10 is a bad record any way you slice it. He made a couple questionable calls as well. I thought he made the right decision on Carr, but the only thing I didn't like was letting him play the whole season. Carr should have lost his job at some point.
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Old 02-07-2007   #5
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

I would give Kubes a solid C. He looked like a rookie HC and was outcoached on several occaisions. He also had some questionable play calling, clock management and personnel moves. All in all, not the Cinderella story we hoped for, but far from a complete disaster. I think he handled adversity and controversy quite well, also.
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Old 02-07-2007   #6
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Not sure what the difference is between #1 & #3? In any case, I don't believe for a second it was #2.

Casserly's role in every draft has been overstated. The Texans have college scouts who evaluated the talent. The coaching staff then gave their input. I feel it was the coaches who had too much say in prior drafts (moving up for Babin, trading for P-Bust). Casserly is a builder of organizations, not a talent evaluator.

I'll always believe that Williams got the nod after McNair vetoed the Bush pick. Young was never really an option.

Have the bigger $$$ players Kubiak wanted worked out? TBD. But, Rick Smith has done a heck of a job since with street FA signings. That bodes well, I think.
My thoughts on 1 & 3 were 1: he saw the evidence but disregarded thinking he could fix anybody (ego) 3: He saw the good with the bad and try as he might he just could not get his point across. i admit when I typed it both were similar to me.
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Old 02-07-2007   #7
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

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Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
Way too early to give a final grade on Kubiak.

I like Kubiak and I think he is going to be a good coach for us. If I were going to grade him on what he did this past year I'd give him a C+. 6-10 is a bad record any way you slice it. He made a couple questionable calls as well. I thought he made the right decision on Carr, but the only thing I didn't like was letting him play the whole season. Carr should have lost his job at some point.
I like what you have said and I think we need to give Kubiak at least a passing grade for this year. Remember he is playing with somebody else's choices as far as players go.
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Old 02-07-2007   #8
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

to take this team from 2-14 to 6-10 is not to bad IMO, id give him a B-. But it was only his first year and he hasnt had much time to do what he thinks will win a championship with this team, so its hard to grade him. Ask this question again in 2 years. PLUS he only had us one win shy of matching the most wins in a season in or franchise. look at it that way !
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Old 02-07-2007   #9
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

At the time that the option had to be picked up on Carr, Kubiak had been on the job a couple of weeks, had really mostly looked at tape, and tape that the coaches later said was mostly worthless because of scheme and protection. 2005 tape was hard to look at, and the 2004 tape showed some promising things until teams started concentrating on AJ in the later half of the season.

There are still people making the argument that Carr is good and it is the Texans protection that is crap:

See e.g.: Link

If you are running Kubiak's offense, you want a QB with the physical skills of Carr--can throw on the run, can threaten with a deep ball, athletic etc. I'm guessing with a season of actually working with him, they are not sure that they can cure the Jerry Lewis moments.

Kubiak at Denver was never against upgrading at the QB position. Griese was kicked to the curb after he didn't pan out.

Ultimately, it has been a mistake to almost insulate the QB position as one where there is no competition, and then say that all the other positions do compete. Now they are just saying that all parts of the team are being evaluating for upgrade and nobody is given anything, no matter what their contract status.
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Old 02-07-2007   #10
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
At the time that the option had to be picked up on Carr, Kubiak had been on the job a couple of weeks, had really mostly looked at tape, and tape that the coaches later said was mostly worthless because of scheme and protection. 2005 tape was hard to look at, and the 2004 tape showed some promising things until teams started concentrating on AJ in the later half of the season.

There are still people making the argument that Carr is good and it is the Texans protection that is crap:

See e.g.: Link

If you are running Kubiak's offense, you want a QB with the physical skills of Carr--can throw on the run, can threaten with a deep ball, athletic etc. I'm guessing with a season of actually working with him, they are not sure that they can cure the Jerry Lewis moments.

Kubiak at Denver was never against upgrading at the QB position. Griese was kicked to the curb after he didn't pan out.

Ultimately, it has been a mistake to almost insulate the QB position as one where there is no competition, and then say that all the other positions do compete. Now they are just saying that all parts of the team are being evaluating for upgrade and nobody is given anything, no matter what their contract status.
"The Jerry Lewis" moments-- are those due to DC panic/ sack shock or knowledge/experience issues? IMO the former might not be fixable but the latter should be. No one has knocked David's intelligence just decision making at times. Maybe I missed it but have you voiced your opinion on Carr? Stay or go?
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Old 02-07-2007   #11
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
At the time that the option had to be picked up on Carr, Kubiak had been on the job a couple of weeks, had really mostly looked at tape, and tape that the coaches later said was mostly worthless because of scheme and protection. 2005 tape was hard to look at, and the 2004 tape showed some promising things until teams started concentrating on AJ in the later half of the season.

There are still people making the argument that Carr is good and it is the Texans protection that is crap:

See e.g.: Link

If you are running Kubiak's offense, you want a QB with the physical skills of Carr--can throw on the run, can threaten with a deep ball, athletic etc. I'm guessing with a season of actually working with him, they are not sure that they can cure the Jerry Lewis moments.

Kubiak at Denver was never against upgrading at the QB position. Griese was kicked to the curb after he didn't pan out.

Ultimately, it has been a mistake to almost insulate the QB position as one where there is no competition, and then say that all the other positions do compete. Now they are just saying that all parts of the team are being evaluating for upgrade and nobody is given anything, no matter what their contract status.
Carr can be good, if we can get him over beign shell shocked, the boy rushes every thing now because he is so used to never having time. IF he played a few times and saw he was getting time than maybe we could judge. But you cant just look at carr and say wow he sucks, and a new QB will make it all better cause the next QB is gonna have the same crappy protection that Carr has.
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Old 02-07-2007   #12
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

In defense of Kubiak, you can lead a horse(Carr) to water(knowledge), but you can't make him drink(change bad habits).
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Old 02-07-2007   #13
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Lightbulb Re: Kubiak evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
At the time that the option had to be picked up on Carr, Kubiak had been on the job a couple of weeks, had really mostly looked at tape, and tape that the coaches later said was mostly worthless because of scheme and protection. 2005 tape was hard to look at, and the 2004 tape showed some promising things until teams started concentrating on AJ in the later half of the season.

An:

See e.g.: Link

If you are running Kubiak's offense, you want a QB with the physical skills of Carr--can throw on the run, can threaten with a deep ball, athletic etc. I'm guessing with a season of actually working with him, they are not sure that they can cure the Jerry Lewis moments.

Kubiak at Denver was never against upgrading at the QB position. Griese was kicked to the curb after he didn't pan out.

Ultimately, it has been a mistake to almost insulate the QB position as one where there is no competition, and then say that all the other positions do compete. Now they are just saying that all parts of the team are being evaluating for upgrade and nobody is given anything, no matter what their contract status.
Great analysis TC:

The fact of the matter is and you can look it up...we've got a fifty pick, two sixty five picks anchoring our o-line. That's a fact. The free agents they've brought in have been abysmal in the o-line. You can swim in the dead cap money waters to see that. Kubiak is being bombed because of the results of last season. Kubes couldn't resurrect what has been damaged beyond all reason. Carr does it in practice... "jumps the shark" as you say in the games. Therefore kubiak is a "solid" "c" coach. So this dog can't hunt no more. Kubiak couldn't roll away the stone with David Carr.... coupled with what was left in the cupboard by the previos regieme. Is it a function of Kubiack being stupid or incompetent ? Or....has the overall tallent on this team been highly over evaluated by a lot of folks on this board ? I mean , Chicago just went to the super bowl with a loose canon at quarterback. Look down the rosters...notice the difference.

What I find absolutly astounding about some of these threads in here, the same people who don't have a clue...are the ones blasting away.

This IS thier first draft together. As posted previously, they've done a great job at plugging holes that I thought couldn't be pluged. Won two more games last year than they shoud have. Might want to get them a fair shot at a couple of off seasons before you run them out of town on a rail.

Which ever way they go on DC, I'm on board. The bottom line for me is untill they address the lines and build from the inside out...we will always be NFL bottom feeders. No matter what skill guys they bring in, no matter who the coach is, we are not going anywhere untill some one fixes what has been broken for five years. I can stand it as long as you can.
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Old 02-07-2007   #14
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

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Originally Posted by old football fan View Post
In defense of Kubiak, you can lead a horse(Carr) to water(knowledge), but you can't make him drink(change bad habits).
You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink. Well if he dont drink he dies, but you do give him the CHANCE to drink dont you ?
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Old 02-07-2007   #15
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Great analysis TC:



This IS thier first draft together. As posted previously, they've done a great job at plugging holes that I thought couldn't be pluged. Won two more games last year than they shoud have. Might want to get them a fair shot at a couple of off seasons before you run them out of town on a rail.

Which ever way they go on DC, I'm on board. The bottom line for me is untill they address the lines and build from the inside out...we will always be NFL bottom feeders. No matter what skill guys they bring in, no matter who the coach is, we are not going anywhere untill some one fixes what has been broken for five years. I can stand it as long as you can.
nice job. i am dealing with the fact Peterson probably wont be there when we pick. levi brown is starting to sound more and more enticing, whether it's at the #8 or a trade down. you never know, brown's stock is going up and might warrant a selection at #8 after the pro day workouts and the combine.
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Old 02-07-2007   #16
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Which ever way they go on DC, I'm on board.
I think that pretty much sums up my feeling on... well... pretty much everything Texan. I trust Kubiak and Smith to do the right things. If they decide it's best to go with Carr, I'll go along with that. Whoever they put on the field, I'll be cheering them on.

I just believe that there have to be better options than Carr and I expect Kubiak/Smith to make some sort of change at that position.
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Old 02-07-2007   #17
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

I am of the school that it takes two full years (seasons) to fully evaluate a head coach. Kubiak gets high marks for his mid term grade for improving to a 6 win season. That is a 200% improvement. When you take into consideration he did this with 17 players going on IR in the course of the year, it is even more impressive. Evaluating consistency will be very difficult if not impossible when your starting line ups change weekly due to the IR. I believe the Texans win 1 or 2 more games without all the injuries. Again, this is an evaluation that is most difficult or impossible to prove.

Now if Kubiak ends up discarding Carr this year his marks go down. The main reason being, what he passed up to resign Carr. Kubiak had 4 years of tape to evaluate. To say the tapes are no good because of the scheme, is a cop out and a very poor excuse. That is to say, throw away all tape of any player evaluations that are not playing in your system, Phooey! The main problem Kubiak has with Carr, is David gets careless with the football. Double digit fumbles drives the coach crazy. Not many good QBs, if any have double digit fumbles. Every QB is going to throw INTs, it is the ones thrown into double and triple coverage that make you want to spit.

To bring in Plummer would be just a repeat of giving Carr the extension. Plummer was benched for a rookie because he continually made many of these same mistakes. Broncos could not envision Plummer holding the Lombardi Trophy and why should the Texans? Bringing in Plummer is the same mistake of resigning Carr. Those decisions, if made, will have set the Texans back several years in good QB play and the reasons that could end the career of Kubiak as Head Coach of Houston Texans.
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Old 02-07-2007   #18
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

The Kubiak/Carr Question:

I think Kubiak in all honesty just wants to work with carr for another year, and he knows that carr is the most valuable available quarterback for us next season. You ask any coach/player around the league, retired. They all say, "Carr is a good player, its just hard to tell because of the poor o line play, so many difference schemes, and the inconsistent rushing attack"

1st Question:

I never though Casselry had that bad of drafts... Travis Johnson was a reach yes, and honestly p buch was a good trade at the time, we needed a #2 corner, and buchanan (at the time) was more proven than any other corner in that draft. Other than that there has been plenty of players he drafted that have been good pickups, for example: Chester Pitts, Andre Johnson, Dunta Robinson, Domanick Davis, Jerome Mathis, Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Owen Daniels, Wali Lundy etc.

2nd Question:

No, Vince Young was outruled because at that time quarterback wasn't a need. Reggie Bush was a top talent, however we thought domanick davis, who already was a dual threat back, was going to come back healthy. Therefor a genetic freak like mario williams was a good choice...and I still think it was. I saw glimpses of total domination this season out of mario... it will be scary when he is healthy and has talent around him.

3rd Question:

Eric Moulds worked out, was a reliable receiver, took pressure off AJ, and AJ had his best season yet, and is going to the probowl. Jeb Putzier got overshadowed by a rookie. Anthony Weaver proved to be valuable. Flanagan got owned by injuries. Overall I would say we did a decent job bringing in free agents last season. Some workout, some don't, thats just how it works out.
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Old 02-08-2007   #19
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

Despite several key injuries (Spencer, never having Domick, Daniels, Matihis for only a few returns, etc.) the guys seemed to be getting some chemistry going at the end of the year. And they beat Indy... nuff said on that. Considering what Kubiak inherited in his rookie year, I would have to give him a solid B.

Fix Carr's head next year (assuming Carr is still around) and that goes to an A.
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Old 02-08-2007   #20
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Default Re: Kubiak evaluation

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First let me say, I think Kubes is the right guy for job & I am ecstatic about our most recent draft. That being said, he had film of all David Carr's games and input from several NFL types. Did he

1. Simply misjudge Carr?
2. Say what he thought he had to for the job.
3. Truly think he could improve DC enough to get by and is now admitting he was wrong. If so, is that on him or David or both.

Was the success of the draft more Casserly than some want to admit?
Was Mario over B/Y simply taking the easy way out for a coach not wanting to gamble on a RB or QB that could have failed just as easily?
Have the free agents Kubes picked really worked out?

Some if not all of these have been discussed, but now more time has elapsed and F/agency and another important draft loom. I say we are going to be just fine. What do you say?
Casserly did a great job on the draft. After one season, it looks like it was their best draft. But I think Rick Smith will do just as well, if not better. He and Kubes apparently gel very well together.

I don't think Mario was the safe pick. He was the only pick. Reggie Bush has shown off-field problems. I suspect the FO had some hint of it in interviews and all their probing. I think VY was never seriously considered for the job. Also, I think this pick will always come back to haunt the Texans until Mario Williams gets Defensive Player of the Year.

I think the Texans are going to be fine this year. I think they will bring in key players through the draft and free agency. I expect to see 5-8 new faces on the field next September, and I expect the Texans to build on the season this year.

As much as I hate incremental change, I have to admit: in one season, Kubiak finished one win behind the Texans best season ever.
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