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Old 01-30-2007   #1
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Default Why exactly do we need another DE?

I thought Weaver played pretty well at DE this year. I've heard a lot of talk about moving him inside, but I just don't see it. Then you add in Babin (our sack leader this year) and Peek (if we resign him) and I dno't see DE being nearly as much of a position of need as DT.
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Old 01-30-2007   #2
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
I thought Weaver played pretty well at DE this year. I've heard a lot of talk about moving him inside, but I just don't see it. Then you add in Babin (our sack leader this year) and Peek (if we resign him) and I dno't see DE being nearly as much of a position of need as DT.
Thats the reason. Team leader and he has 5 sacks.
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Old 01-30-2007   #3
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

I agree with you..We do not need a DE...I'd like to see us pull a real monster at DT however! I say we take branch if available and if not I'd like to see us with okoye
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Old 01-30-2007   #4
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

Hey we dont want Mario to get triple teamed for the rest of his career, right??
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Old 01-30-2007   #5
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

Weaver is not a pass rusher and with him and Mario on the outside, we dont have the speed to consitantly get to the QB. Weaver does need to be moved inside and allow either Babin or a new DE (I doubt we resign Peek) to play opposite Mario on the weakside.
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Old 01-30-2007   #6
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

Kubiak (on fulfilling the need for pass rushers) “There’s no doubt, we’ve got to find a way to put some pressure on some people. We played a group yesterday that was missing a couple of guards and (defensive coordinator) Richard (Smith) dialed up plenty of zone gods trying to create pressure and that is one glaring thing that I’ve been looking at this morning, comparing progress, where there was progress and some things we didn’t do well. One of the first things that I looked at was the fact that we didn’t pressure the quarterback really well. we’ve got to figure out a way to do that and if we’ve got to be able to do that with four guys in this league if you’re having to dial-up zone dogs and blitz in this league week–in and week-out, specially in our division in my opinion, you’re going to get burned. So we’ve got to find a way to pressure the quarterback with four guys and that will be a big point of emphasis.”
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Old 01-30-2007   #7
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

Weaver has good run stopping ability, but he is no DT. He also has limited pass rushing ability. If we were so concerned with getting good pressure off the edges on 1st and 2nd down, why did we bring in a 3-4 DE with no history of sacks?
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Old 01-30-2007   #8
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Weaver has good run stopping ability, but he is no DT. He also has limited pass rushing ability. If we were so concerned with getting good pressure off the edges on 1st and 2nd down, why did we bring in a 3-4 DE with no history of sacks?
That's good question because while different style of players Williams and Weaver are both best at playing Strong-Side DE in our 4-3. the good news is that Weaver is diverse enough to take snaps in all positions along the 4-3. The hope for the Texans is that Mario will be able to do the same so that they can move those two around the line depending on situation.

As for DE, Babin and Peek have not shown to be very good pass rushers after several years in the league. An edge rusher with speed is one of the top priorities for this team in my mind.
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Old 01-30-2007   #9
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

Why wouldn't a very quick interior rusher like Okoye be better? That way we could keep Babin/Peek on the outside and draw away coverage from them as exterior linemen move inside to prevent the pocket from collapsing.
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Old 01-30-2007   #10
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
I thought Weaver played pretty well at DE this year. I've heard a lot of talk about moving him inside, but I just don't see it. Then you add in Babin (our sack leader this year) and Peek (if we resign him) and I dno't see DE being nearly as much of a position of need as DT.
Sacks.
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Old 01-30-2007   #11
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

The basic reason we need another DE is because our team sack leader was a reserve who notched 5 sacks. The Bears had a rookie reserve notch 14. We don't need another high pick, "complete" DE. We need our version of Mark Anderson or Freeny. We need someone who has decent size, but can just get to the QB. We need a speed rusher, because chances are good he gets to go 1-on-1 with Mario requiring mulitiple blockers on the other side. We need someone like Moss, Brazun, or Hickmen.
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Old 01-30-2007   #12
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
Sacks.
Sacks are the most overrated statistic in the NFL. Its not about getting sacks, its about getting consitant pressure, something the Texans passing offense knows plenty about.
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Old 01-30-2007   #13
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
Sacks are the most overrated statistic in the NFL. Its not about getting sacks, its about getting consitant pressure, something the Texans passing offense knows plenty about.
And something the defensive line doesn't know how to do. We need another DE because we can't get constant pressure on the QB. Too often the QB had way too much time to throw the ball. We could have the best secondary in the NFL and if we don't find a way to pressure the QB, we aren't going to have a good defense. I think DE is a bigger issue than getting another DT. I really liked the way Anthony Maddox played last season and I think Weaver is a better player as a tackle than an end. I'd love to have Gaines Adams on the other side of Mario. Adams, Mario, Dunta Robinson, DeMeco Ryans....
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Old 01-30-2007   #14
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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And something the defensive line doesn't know how to do. We need another DE because we can't get constant pressure on the QB. Too often the QB had way too much time to throw the ball. We could have the best secondary in the NFL and if we don't find a way to pressure the QB, we aren't going to have a good defense. I think DE is a bigger issue than getting another DT. I really liked the way Anthony Maddox played last season and I think Weaver is a better player as a tackle than an end. I'd love to have Gaines Adams on the other side of Mario. Adams, Mario, Dunta Robinson, DeMeco Ryans....
Sacks are a product of your entire team, not just your DEs.

You don't get sacks if:
1) Your team is behind most of the game (the other team runs more) <- If we have better offense, our team won't be trailing so often
2) Your team has a poor run defense (the other team runs more) <- If we keep Weaver and Williams on the edge, and get a run stopping DT, the other team will be forced into more 3rd and long situations and we can rush without worry
3) Your team has poor DBs (the other team doesn't have to check down receiers) <- If we get better DBs, the opposing teams WRs will have more trouble getting open, and we have longer to collapse the pocket
4) Your team gets beat by a draw/screen too often (you play more containment) <- IMO the Texans weren't coached well on how to recognize the screen/draw (they always worked really well!), causing us to become less aggressive
5) You play against mobile QBs (We played VY twice, Garrard once, and a few other moving targets) <- Better spying linebackers will help with this.
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Old 01-30-2007   #15
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Sacks are a product of your entire team, not just your DEs.
But the fact remains that our DE's could not get any consistent pressure on the QB. Having a rotating door of ends with Babin, Peek, and Weaver isn't going to work. Neither of them should be starting as an end in the NFL. Weaver should be a tackle, what he was when he was with Baltimore. In a 4-3, you rely on the line to get most of the pressure on the QB, and our line didn't do that consistently enough.
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Old 01-30-2007   #16
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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But the fact remains that our DE's could not get any consistent pressure on the QB. Having a rotating door of ends with Babin, Peek, and Weaver isn't going to work. Neither of them should be starting as an end in the NFL. Weaver should be a tackle, what he was when he was with Baltimore. In a 4-3, you rely on the line to get most of the pressure on the QB, and our line didn't do that consistently enough.
Weaver wasn't a tackle in baltimore..
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Old 01-30-2007   #17
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Weaver wasn't a tackle in baltimore..
Yeah, I was wrong on that one. I thought the Chronicle or some other site said he was a tackle in Baltimore, but I guess not after reading his bio. Doesn't change the fact he wasn't very good at pressuring the QB.
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Old 01-30-2007   #18
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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Weaver wasn't a tackle in baltimore..
He was a 3-4 DE which is typically an undersized DT/oversized DE. Speaking of Baltimore, 5 players on their team had 5 or more sacks this season. In other words, they had 5 players who topped our team sack leader's mark which is the easy answer to why DE is a need. Anytime you use a rotation or multiple players at a position, it either means you have too much talent or too little talent. In our case, its easy to see which one it is for the other DE spot opposite Mario.
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Old 01-30-2007   #19
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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Originally Posted by TexanSam View Post
Yeah, I was wrong on that one. I thought the Chronicle or some other site said he was a tackle in Baltimore, but I guess not after reading his bio. Doesn't change the fact he wasn't very good at pressuring the QB.
The fact of the matter is we have 4 highly touted DEs, and none of them are producing.
Williams is supposed to be the next Julius Peppers
Weaver was a high round pick out of college, and played well in the 3-4 in Balt
Babin was a 1st round reach who played DE well in college
Peek is a speed rushing end who is supposed to be an excellent rusher

Every one of those guys looked like a bust the majority of the year

The fact that zero of these DEs lived up to their expectations tells me that something else is the problem.
-It may be the DTs who were a revolving door becuause of injuries.
-It may have been any of the aforementioned problems (we were behind, we were weak against the run, we had terrible DBs, etc)

I do not think DE is our largest problem, and I sincerely hope we don't draft DE with our 1st round choice. We have so many larger holes and so much money all ready tied up in the DL that drafting DL 1st is just going to end up wit hmore frustrating results.
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Old 01-30-2007   #20
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Default Re: Why exactly do we need another DE?

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Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
Weaver is not a pass rusher and with him and Mario on the outside, we dont have the speed to consitantly get to the QB. Weaver does need to be moved inside and allow either Babin or a new DE (I doubt we resign Peek) to play opposite Mario on the weakside.
Exactly. Our line of Mario and Weaver at DEs and whoever inside was pretty strong against the run, but we got very little pass rush out of it. Our smaller line with Weaver inside and Babin/Peek at DE got a little better pass rush but that one side was very weak against the run. Weaver isn't as good against the run inside at DT but he can provide decent pass pressure from there. We need to improve our pass rush most of all, and Weaver at DE doesn't supply that for us, he can supply some pressure at DT. Someone like Gaines Adams would give us a nice pass rush but he won't be any better against the run than Babin or Peek. A guy like Jamaal Anderson would give us much better pass rush than Weaver off the edge but would be stronger against the run than Adams/Peek/Babin.
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