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Old 01-25-2007   #1
kastofsna
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Default JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

Ryan Leaf. Tim Couch. Akili Smith. Andre Ware. Jeff George. Heath Shuler.

Some big name busts in recent NFL history. Lots of pre-draft buzz, created by some big games in college, some impressive workouts, but mostly just hype.

Strong arms, but not the greatest decision-makers. Quickly learned a simplified college offense, but struggled with a complicated pro offense with huge playbooks and a lot more reads.

The biggest thing they all have in common: no work ethic. Just not willing to put in the work needed to become the franchise player they were thought to one day become. Some of these guys didn't have the best work ethic just because of their personalities. Leaf and Couch were pretty aloof guys, and Smith had some problems there, too. You CAN'T succeed at the next level if you think you can get away with some of the things you do in college, simple as that. Then you have guys like Shuler who combined all of that with the fact that he held out for his entire initial training camp. That's not going to end well.

Onto JaMarcus Russell. He fits the mold. Almost perfectly. Strong arm, but not the best decisions on the field. Some good games throughout his career, but nothing spectacular. No one even considered him a top prospect till one game against a very weak Notre Dame defense, a game where he had several questionable throws, including an interception thrown into triple coverage. His work ethic has been questioned for a while now, as well as his general non-chalant attitude towards the team. When asked who he wants to play for, he said "Whoever picks first and whoever pays the most." Not exactly what you'd want to hear from a potential franchise QB.

I liked Vince Young as a prospect a lot more than Russell. And a lot of you know my feelings on Young pre-draft last year. I've never seen a more obvious QB bust in my life.
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Old 01-25-2007   #2
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

Only time will tell. If that's true about what he said concerning who he'd like to play for then you may be right. Attitude and character are important but dude does have some mad skills. He'll get drafted high b/c coaches think they can fix anything
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Old 01-25-2007   #3
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

this is a good place to throw this into:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9950047



Quote:
Every offseason, New England's Tom Brady works with former College of San Mateo head coach Tom Martinez, who cleans up the Patriots quarterback's mechanics.


But last weekend, for the first time, Martinez worked with LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell, regarded as one of the top prospects in the upcoming NFL draft. And what Martinez said should catch the attention of everyone in Oakland's front office.

After working with Russell, Martinez told some people that he never has seen a talent quite like Russell -- including Brady. Martinez was highly impressed with Russell's "coachability" and his physical skills.

Martinez said that Russell is the type of quarterback who can do everything wrong on a play and still have it come out right. But the fact that Martinez endorsed Russell as strongly as he did only reinforces the notion Russell will be going to the Raiders with the draft's No. 1 overall pick.
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Old 01-25-2007   #4
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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Originally Posted by kastofsna View Post
When asked who he wants to play for, he said "Whoever picks first and whoever pays the most." Not exactly what you'd want to hear from a potential franchise QB.

about that- whats he meant to say: 'im playing for .... and thats that'
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Old 01-25-2007   #5
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

I think Russell is going to be the real deal. Look at his record vs those you listed as busts. Look at the competetion Russell played against and his successes. He kept his team in the National title hunt during his tenure.
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Old 01-25-2007   #6
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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Originally Posted by kastofsna View Post
Ryan Leaf. Tim Couch. Akili Smith. Andre Ware. Jeff George. Heath Shuler.

Some big name busts in recent NFL history. Lots of pre-draft buzz, created by some big games in college, some impressive workouts, but mostly just hype.

Strong arms, but not the greatest decision-makers. Quickly learned a simplified college offense, but struggled with a complicated pro offense with huge playbooks and a lot more reads.

The biggest thing they all have in common: no work ethic. Just not willing to put in the work needed to become the franchise player they were thought to one day become. Some of these guys didn't have the best work ethic just because of their personalities. Leaf and Couch were pretty aloof guys, and Smith had some problems there, too. You CAN'T succeed at the next level if you think you can get away with some of the things you do in college, simple as that. Then you have guys like Shuler who combined all of that with the fact that he held out for his entire initial training camp. That's not going to end well.

Onto JaMarcus Russell. He fits the mold. Almost perfectly. Strong arm, but not the best decisions on the field. Some good games throughout his career, but nothing spectacular. No one even considered him a top prospect till one game against a very weak Notre Dame defense, a game where he had several questionable throws, including an interception thrown into triple coverage. His work ethic has been questioned for a while now, as well as his general non-chalant attitude towards the team. When asked who he wants to play for, he said "Whoever picks first and whoever pays the most." Not exactly what you'd want to hear from a potential franchise QB.

I liked Vince Young as a prospect a lot more than Russell. And a lot of you know my feelings on Young pre-draft last year. I've never seen a more obvious QB bust in my life.
Don't know enough about him. Arm strength, size, and some athleticism are always nice, but they are no guarantee (Boller comes to mind, a few other guys). Lazy QBs should never be drafted in the 1st... but that's for the teams drafting him to determine. The only people that know if he's really lazy are Jamarcus, his QB coach, and his strength coach, probably.
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Old 01-25-2007   #7
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
I think Russell is going to be the real deal. Look at his record vs those you listed as busts. Look at the competetion Russell played against and his successes. He kept his team in the National title hunt during his tenure.
LSU should've actually won more games with the talent they have. his resume should look a lot more like matt leinart's than jason white's.
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Old 01-25-2007   #8
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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Originally Posted by kastofsna View Post

I liked Vince Young as a prospect a lot more than Russell. And a lot of you know my feelings on Young pre-draft last year. I've never seen a more obvious QB bust in my life.
My God, you said the same things about Young, only you threw out his work ethic all together, to make him fit your QB Bust mold.....

I bet you still think Highly of Quinn, whose name you could have substituted for Russell's in the above article...... except IMHO Brady is even more consistent in making poor decisions.

Again, like Vince you bring up the fact that no one though much of him as a prospect before the bowl game. But just like Vince, he never mentioned he was even remotely interested in coming out & declaring early. The odds were against it.

Nobody had Quinn rated very highly last year....... because he didn't declare. IMHO, he would have been better off had he declared and come out early.

you look at players like Reggie Bush, & Brady Quinn, and say,"these guys will be stars in the NFL".... but look at guys like Vince Young, and Jamarcus Russell and say, "these guys are all hype".......

something is wrong with where you draw your line.
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Old 01-25-2007   #9
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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My God, you said the same things about Young, only you threw out his work ethic all together, to make him fit your QB Bust mold.....

I bet you still think Highly of Quinn, whose name you could have substituted for Russell's in the above article...... except IMHO Brady is even more consistent in making poor decisions.

Again, like Vince you bring up the fact that no one though much of him as a prospect before the bowl game. But just like Vince, he never mentioned he was even remotely interested in coming out & declaring early. The odds were against it.

Nobody had Quinn rated very highly last year....... because he didn't declare. IMHO, he would have been better off had he declared and come out early.

you look at players like Reggie Bush, & Brady Quinn, and say,"these guys will be stars in the NFL".... but look at guys like Vince Young, and Jamarcus Russell and say, "these guys are all hype".......

something is wrong with where you draw your line.
no i said young would be a bust because texas simplified a pro-style offense and he only found success from a 2-read/zone-read offense.

brady quinn has gotten nothing but huge praise for his work ethic and ability to pick up a complicated charlie weiss offense and run it to perfection. i pretty much feel the same way about troy smith. hard worker and dedicated to the game.

russell has far more bust-potential than young ever did.
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Old 01-25-2007   #10
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

What are ... Sony , Pioneer , Panasonic , and Bose ?
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Old 01-25-2007   #11
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

I think you are just looking for a fight. Russell lost 3 games. He had 10 4th quarter comebacks. Don't dig yourself this hole. You don't want this egg on your face.
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Old 01-25-2007   #12
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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Originally Posted by kastofsna View Post
no i said young would be a bust because texas simplified a pro-style offense and he only found success from a 2-read/zone-read offense.

brady quinn has gotten nothing but huge praise for his work ethic and ability to pick up a complicated charlie weiss offense and run it to perfection. i pretty much feel the same way about troy smith. hard worker and dedicated to the game.

russell has far more bust-potential than young ever did.

out of curiosity.... have you ever disagreed with the "media" about a pick?? who has it, and who doesn't?? or do you just follow the company line??

I ask, because they, and you were wrong about Vince. I know it's early, but you & "the media" said he wouldn't be ready for years to come, and if he proved anything at all in '06, it's that he is ready. He's not polished by any means, he isn't a prolific passer..... but he's shown that he can play his game at this level. You might not like his game, but it is what it is.... & that's successful.

Same thing about Reggie... you & "the media" said he'd make an impact from day 1...... that's not exactly how it went.
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Old 01-25-2007   #13
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

Well I've put Russell on a pedistle for sure. Agreed no one is bust proof. You can point to Robert Gallery and see that in spades. He had the numbers. He had the mechanics and quickness. The film and the combine said the guy should be as close to bust proof as you can get. There should of been no reason the guy should of busted. But he did. You can now point and say, you should never ever pick an OLT prospect with a high number one. Because...they will bust like Robert Gallery. Or you could say that the reward of getting a true OLT that can lock down that position is worth the risk of bring in five guys through the system and be sitting here five years down the road with out a soloution at OLT. What would have Bosseli ment to this franchise if the shoulder did come around ? What did the Jets pick of Furgeson and Mangold mean to the Jets in terms of setting up their draft now ? I mean acroding to your theory....picking guys against the heard is a no no. And the heard says you should never pick an interior guy high in the draft, especailly a center. A position who form most teams perspectives is an after thought. The Jets are in a position now to cherry pick the skill positions and draft o-lineman latter in the draft.
So now kats you posting that Russell has got all the makers that say he will bust out. 1. Has there been a prospect like this who throws the ball beter, i.e. tighter spiral, deeper than Russel. NO. 2. Has there been a QB lately who's throwing motion is as quick as effortless as Russell's. NO. The guy is by no means perfect. I don't know if the guy can be coached out of his flaws. What I do know is the guy has the hottest arm I've seen from a young prospect since Farve. I'm gambeling when I put him up there on that pedistle, that he can be coached out of his lazy feet. I'm gambeling that his non-chalant attidtude on short and medium routes are boredom not a curled lip. He does have lazy feet sometimes. He miss reads palys sometimes. But after watching his main weapon this senior bowl pratice week, might of been frustration more than anything else. Gotta get old putting the ball on a guys numbers only to see it flutter hramleesly to the ground. I'm puting that, the lazy feet and missing guys on routes, down to inexperence not a mental deffecientcy. Could Russel bust out. Sure he could. My money says the guy is so rare a prospect that just like Gallery, someone is going to over look the markers and take the guy high. Very high. If Al holds service, and Detroit is sold on Joe Thomas, will get to see which of us is correct. Cleveland and Tampa Bay won't throw him back into the pile...and neither will the Texans. Can't argue with you how many angles can dance on the head of a pin. What I will say is the guy won't make it past the eight pick. Kubiack won't pass on an Elway prospect. Irregaudless of the cap impilcations if he's there at eight Kubiak has seen all he needs to see out of DC. I dunno and I aint in the loop. JMHO. Russel is the kind of prospect that you build you team around for a NFL generation. He may fail. But he won't fall. Book it.
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Old 01-25-2007   #14
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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out of curiosity.... have you ever disagreed with the "media" about a pick?? who has it, and who doesn't?? or do you just follow the company line??

I ask, because they, and you were wrong about Vince. I know it's early, but you & "the media" said he wouldn't be ready for years to come, and if he proved anything at all in '06, it's that he is ready. He's not polished by any means, he isn't a prolific passer..... but he's shown that he can play his game at this level. You might not like his game, but it is what it is.... & that's successful.

Same thing about Reggie... you & "the media" said he'd make an impact from day 1...... that's not exactly how it went.
oh man, tell me about it, the media never thought young would be great, no one in the media ever said he won the rose bowl all by himself, no one in the media ever said he was this super amazing talent, of course not, noooo, everyone thought he was a failure, blah blah blah. give me a break. the media is slobbering all over russell right now just as much as they were vince young last year. there were only like a handful of people in "THE MEDIA" that didnt think young was some ultra-amazing rare quarterback.
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Old 01-25-2007   #15
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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I think you are just looking for a fight. Russell lost 3 games. He had 10 4th quarter comebacks. Don't dig yourself this hole. You don't want this egg on your face.
to hell with voicing opinions!
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Old 01-25-2007   #16
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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out of curiosity.... have you ever disagreed with the "media" about a pick?? who has it, and who doesn't?? or do you just follow the company line??

I ask, because they, and you were wrong about Vince. I know it's early, but you & "the media" said he wouldn't be ready for years to come, and if he proved anything at all in '06, it's that he is ready. He's not polished by any means, he isn't a prolific passer..... but he's shown that he can play his game at this level. You might not like his game, but it is what it is.... & that's successful.

Same thing about Reggie... you & "the media" said he'd make an impact from day 1...... that's not exactly how it went.
At 52% no one is wrong about Vincent just yet. You sallowed the hook. Not those of us are still waiting for VY to mature. If he's got a small window, every throw is going to be an adventuer with Vincent. A lot of us said Vick would bust too. If it wasn't for the cap, Vick would be out the door in Atlanta. Gonna be interesting to see which way Fischer jumps on the question. You're assuming that Vincent is going to improve markedly the coming seasons.
From my tree that question is far from a done deal as you can get. Untill he improves his passing, VY is a loose cannon. Has been for eight years. My book says that will never change. He may win a super bowl one day with his legs. Maybe. Up to you to decide in the future if that was worth a three and fifty million. No scambling QB has ever won the super bowl. Vincent does it that will make him a HOFer for sure. We'll see.
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Old 01-25-2007   #17
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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there were only like a handful of people in "THE MEDIA" that didnt think young was some ultra-amazing rare quarterback.
I don't know about that...

Most of what I heard about VY was how Leinart and Cutler were better...
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Old 01-25-2007   #18
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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I don't know about that...

Most of what I heard about VY was how Leinart and Cutler were better...
leinart, i'll give you. but cutler? very few even mentioned his name with young or leinart. VERY few. let alone say he was better than either one.
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Old 01-25-2007   #19
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

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At 52% no one is wrong about Vincent just yet.
You've been saying this for weeks if not months... around 50% is what is expected out of a rookie QB... the numbers bear it out. He won the ROY for a reason, he was voted a Pro-Bowl alternate for a reason, throw away that stat. It means nothing. Nearly everyone, including the biggest optimists was proven wrong by Vince. No one expected them to be 8-5 as a starter with the worst D in the NFL. No one expected him to do what he did in Houston or Buffalo or against NY. I certainly didn't expect him to have the 2nd highest rush average in the NFL and to get first downs at will.

So save the "Vince hasn't proven anybody wrong yet" thing... he threw the ball as well as is expected of an NFL rookie and a lot better than some all time greats did as rookies.
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Old 01-25-2007   #20
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Default Re: JaMarcus Russell: Prototypical Bust

Had my say, and yes untill he does it, moves his passing effeintcy into water walker status, yes I'll keep posting it. The fact that it agrovates you so...means there IS a ring of truth in it. JMHO. We'll see. I'm gonna have my say though. You want to scouch out there on that limb with him fine by me. I'm not going to just let it go. Not yet. I got a fact. You got the love. We'll see.
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Last edited by threetoedpete; 01-25-2007 at 03:13 PM.
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